Can't take it anymore. gotta know the answer:

[joshesmusica]

I keep seeing all of these wide, varying timelines for fermentation and especially how long it takes for the yeast to clean up. Apart from anecdotal evidence, does anybody have anything to point to that shows (closer to) scientifically how long it actually takes for yeast to clean up? I'm talking if you've got a clean fermentation: proper pitch rates, proper pitch temps (which i know can also be debated), proper ferment temps, healthy yeast.

 

[sudbuddy]

I don't think there is any one answer to that question. It is going to vary wildly by yeast strain due to varying rates of attenuation, so you would have to do a strain by strain analysis. If you go to the website for White Lab's tasting room they have some nice reports on how several strains of their yeast will behave in the same wort. Here's a link:

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/tasting-room-data-depth

 

[day_trippr]

"42"

Cheers!

 

[Qhrumphf]

As said, too many variables. Even things like fermenter geometry are a factor. The only way to know how long a beer takes is to have brewed it (or at least something similar) before.

The simplest way I would think of it is "how fast to the pros do it" and assume that's the fastest possible- no pro is going to leave a beer in the fermenter any longer than they have to, since wasted fermenter space is wasted money. And even then, different beers take different amounts of time.

And then assume that that's only if you do everything the way you're supposed to do it. Which most homebrewers don't.

Beyond that, "when it's ready" is the only answer. Is the gravity stable? Does it taste conditioned? Then it's done.

Personally, I've stopped parroting the "leave everything in the fermenter for 4 weeks" line that's often trumpeted on here, as I've found it's really not true. At least not once I started controlling temp, pitching a proper amount of yeast, and properly aerating. Most of my beers have ~12 hours lag time, fully active by 24 hours, high krausen usually around 48 hours, and then usually done and at FG in 3-4 total days. And usually fully conditioned by 7 days. And then I'll usually package somewhere between 7 and 21 days (depending on when I have time, dry hopping, etc). Sometimes I still don't package until 4 or 5 weeks, but that's simply because life gets in the way. Usually no harm leaving it that long, just don't need to.

 

[joshesmusica]

I don't think there is any one answer to that question. It is going to vary wildly by yeast strain due to varying rates of attenuation, so you would have to do a strain by strain analysis. If you go to the website for White Lab's tasting room they have some nice reports on how several strains of their yeast will behave in the same wort. Here's a link:

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/tasting-room-data-depth

but in these reports they're not showing us any data after day 9. so in their lab we can see fermentation is done by day 9 with all strains. unfortunately these show nothing about off-flavors/conditioning times.

 

[Yooper]

but in these reports they're not showing us any data after day 9. so in their lab we can see fermentation is done by day 9 with all strains. unfortunately these show nothing about off-flavors/conditioning times.

The "clean up" phase by the yeast is over by about 24 hours after FG is reached. It is occurring before FG is reached, while the yeast is still active and scrounging for fermentables and lesser desired compounds to digest.

Flocculation varies, and some strains drop clear right away (or even before FG is reached in a couple of cases), while some strains never want to clear.

Fermentation generally takes 3-7 days for most ale yeast strains, in a properly pitched amount (usually on the lower side of that), and lagers usually take 5-10 days if properly handled.

That's probably why you don't see any data after day 9- fermentation is over by then in all cases with all strains in that list. It would be a rare beer that took longer than 9 days to finish fermentation and that 'clean up phase' that occurs during the end of active fermentation and just after FG is reached.

 

[Yooper]

Personally, I've stopped parroting the "leave everything in the fermenter for 4 weeks" line that's often trumpeted on here, as I've found it's really not true. At least not once I started controlling temp, pitching a proper amount of yeast, and properly aerating. Most of my beers have ~12 hours lag time, fully active by 24 hours, high krausen usually around 48 hours, and then usually done and at FG in 3-4 total days. And usually fully conditioned by 7 days. And then I'll usually package somewhere between 7 and 21 days (depending on when I have time, dry hopping, etc). Sometimes I still don't package until 4 or 5 weeks, but that's simply because life gets in the way. Usually no harm leaving it that long, just don't need to.

I kegged a beer today that I brewed on 5/14. I was actually going to do it a few days ago, but the time got away from me.

A well made beer doesn't need ages and ages to "clean up", as that happens right at the tail end of fermentation. It often doesn't hurt to leave it longer, but I don't care for the flavor impact of a long time on the yeast cake. Others really do prefer that flavor, though, so the only way to know is to do it yourself.

Split a batch in half. Package one on day 14, and package one half on day 30. See which YOU prefer. Results from tests doing just this are mixed- about equally- and there are people who prefer one or the other. My preference is the shorter time in contact with the yeast.

 

[beernbourbon]

but in these reports they're not showing us any data after day 9. so in their lab we can see fermentation is done by day 9 with all strains. unfortunately these show nothing about off-flavors/conditioning times.

Couple things about the reports. Gotta remember, these are lab conditions (that we don't have), brand new yeasties brought from their home straight to whatever vessel used for the test (no way possible for us, unless we take our wort there..problematic at best), impeccably monitored control conditions (yeah, even the most anal uptight of us cannot reproduce that), and the list goes on.

Whether it's Q's amazing grain to glass speed (well done, sir, impressive!:rockin, Yooper's too! the parroted 4 weeks (whatever), or your own experience with your own brews on a perfected repetitive schedule, variables will introduce themselves and you cannot control them.

For my own personal scheduling purposes, so I can relax with things,(OH, The HORROR, my beer is not ready!!) and keep the pipeline reasonably well stocked at any one time, I just figure 3 months. That way if I get a brew that just freaks out, and my poor little yeasties are having a tough time for some unknown reason, (i.e. I boofed somethin' up along the way) then I will still have homebrew to drink until the new one is 'done'. If I do all the hydro tests, and it tastes good, meaning it's done sooner, and I have the time to package, great! BONUS!!!
This may or may not work for you or anyone else, but it works for me, so that's what I go with.

 

[Natdavis777]

The "clean up" phase by the yeast is over by about 24 hours after FG is reached. It is occurring before FG is reached, while the yeast is still active and scrounging for fermentables and lesser desired compounds to digest.

This...

I hear people saying they are leaving the beer in the fermenter for weeks to clean up, or transferring to another vessel to d-rest (yesterday at work), etc. Its not necessary.

Each strain is different, but a little bump in temp at the end of fermentation ensures byproducts are cleaned up. Im sipping on my Hefe that went grain to glass in 14 days. Tastes wonderful. Put 10gal of a Cream Ale in the fermentor today and plan to serve in 14 days.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I kegged a beer today that I brewed on 5/14. I was actually going to do it a few days ago, but the time got away from me.

A well made beer doesn't need ages and ages to "clean up", as that happens right at the tail end of fermentation. It often doesn't hurt to leave it longer, but I don't care for the flavor impact of a long time on the yeast cake. Others really do prefer that flavor, though, so the only way to know is to do it yourself.

Split a batch in half. Package one on day 14, and package one half on day 30. See which YOU prefer. Results from tests doing just this are mixed- about equally- and there are people who prefer one or the other. My preference is the shorter time in contact with the yeast.

I suppose it all depends on the beer. I really haven't noticed much of a flavor impact. I know some folks reference soapy flavors from extended fermenter time, where I've never had that problem. Only thing I've noticed is that with hoppy beers, the longer I wait the less hops there are.

So I guess like you said figure it out yourself.

For me, it's just "when I get around to it" which is usually somewhere around 10-14 days.

Couple things about the reports. Gotta remember, these are lab conditions (that we don't have), brand new yeasties brought from their home straight to whatever vessel used for the test (no way possible for us, unless we take our wort there..problematic at best), impeccably monitored control conditions (yeah, even the most anal uptight of us cannot reproduce that), and the list goes on.

Whether it's Q's amazing grain to glass speed (well done, sir, impressive!:rockin, Yooper's too! the parroted 4 weeks (whatever), or your own experience with your own brews on a perfected repetitive schedule, variables will introduce themselves and you cannot control them.

For my own personal scheduling purposes, so I can relax with things,(OH, The HORROR, my beer is not ready!!) and keep the pipeline reasonably well stocked at any one time, I just figure 3 months. That way if I get a brew that just freaks out, and my poor little yeasties are having a tough time for some unknown reason, (i.e. I boofed somethin' up along the way) then I will still have homebrew to drink until the new one is 'done'. If I do all the hydro tests, and it tastes good, meaning it's done sooner, and I have the time to package, great! BONUS!!!
This may or may not work for you or anyone else, but it works for me, so that's what I go with.

I will say, that's not grain to glass, but fermenter time. I also brew a large number of English session beers, which are ready about as fast as anything you can think of. Big Belgian beers are a completely different story. I've had some take 10-14 days for fermentation to finish and reach FG. I also don't keg, so there's that conditioning time too.

Fastest for me is 7 days in the fermenter, and then 5 days priming in the cask before tapping, so 12 days grain to glass. Faster would be possible were I to keg and if I really wanted to. My house Mild is usually done with fermentation 72 hours after pitching and fully conditioned by the 4th day. So I suppose force carbing I could have that grain to glass in less than a week. I've heard of folks cranking out a Hefeweizen in a similar time frame.

As already said, it'll all depend on the beer.

 

[Calder]

I'm talking if you've got a clean fermentation: proper pitch rates, proper pitch temps, proper ferment temps, healthy yeast.

If you have done it right, it doesn't need any time.

 

[elkshadow]

Put me in the "it depends" camp. I make mostly Belgians and I've had them done and ready to package in anywhere from a week to 3 months. Too many variables to say definitively, "In X days the cleanup is over and you can package."

Most of my beers are in the 8-12%ABV range and I generally package a month after brewing. That's more about my schedule and tastes than fermentation, flocculation, etc...

 

[Thetonymartin]

"42"



Cheers!

^^ Welp, there's the answer. I hope that doesn't mean we have to shut the forums down. :-|