Can't hit high grav numbers

[thCapn]

I've been trying to brew an IIPA for awhile now but can't hit my target OG. Today's 5-gallon example:

14 lb Pale two row
1 lb crystal 40L
1 lb Carapils
2 lb Dextrose
Infusion mash 60 min at 152, 1.5L/qt
Batch sparge at 170

According to Brewers Friend I should have been in the neighborhood of 1.090 but actually only hit 1.075. Low OGs like this have been a constant problem when trying to brew IIPAs.

Thoughts?

 

[Yooper]

I've been trying to brew an IIPA for awhile now but can't hit my target OG. Today's 5-gallon example:

14 lb Pale two row
1 lb crystal 40L
1 lb Carapils
2 lb Dextrose
Infusion mash 60 min at 152, 1.5L/qt
Batch sparge at 170

According to Brewers Friend I should have been in the neighborhood of 1.090 but actually only hit 1.075. Low OGs like this have been a constant problem when trying to brew IIPAs.

Thoughts?

That's pretty common, to have a lower efficiency when brewing higher OG batches. For me, my usual efficiency is 75%, but it's less (more like 68-70%) when brewing higher OG beers. It has to do with sparging less, as I reach my boil volume sooner from the mash than with smaller grainbills.

What is your usual efficiency, and what were you shooting for this time?

 

[olotti]

Check ur efficiency. If ur basing ur grain bill on a recipe that is 75% efficiency and you only get say 70-72% efficiency ur OG will b lower. I routinely get around 70-72% brewhouse efficiency per beersmith so I always have to modify the recipe to account for that.

 

[thCapn]

My brew house efficiency as calculated by Brewers Friend is around 60. I am unsure how to improve that nor do I really understand how to adjust recipes to compensate. Advice and constructive criticism is always appreciated.

 

[kingwood-kid]

To adjust the recipe, click on Recipe Tools, then Scale, then type 60 or whatever for Batch Efficiency. Or you can change the efficiency from the default of 75 to 60 on the main screen, and just add base malt until you're at the right gravity again. This will give you two different recipes, but either way will work ok.

To improve your efficiency, there's plenty of threads on here to read through. But the two easiest ways are to mill your grain finer (politely ask your LHBS to mill it twice if you don't mill it yourself) and to sparge with more water. Sparging with extra water will require a longer boil.

 

[thCapn]

Adjusting my BHE in the software makes sense and sounds like an easy solution. Ultimately, improving efficiency is my goal. I already do a 90 minute boil for most recipes to avoid DMS and my LHBS has their mill set very well.

I'm open to all suggestions, though.

 

[thCapn]

Found this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/maximizing-efficiency-when-batch-sparging-77125/

Based on my understanding, I can tell BF that I'm doing a 60-min boil, calculate the recipe and then adjust the sparge at a volume as if I were doing a 90 and that will help compensate. I could also increase mash time to help conversion. Otherwise, all points raised in the initial post on that thread have been addressed.

 

[kingwood-kid]

When do you measure your efficiency? IPAs especially can have great mash efficiency but terrible brewhouse efficiency because the hops absorb so much beer. I had a beer that lost at least 1/3 of its volume to trub and hop absorption. It was a fantastic beer, but putting 5 gallons into the fermenter and barely 3 into bottles was still irritating.

 

[bikesandbrews]

I would second the hops sucking up your beer. a hop spider or strainer can help with this but then can impede hop utilization. It can be a trade off. I often strain my hops through a funnel with a strainer while transferring to get the most liquid from them.

 

[peterj]

Adjusting my BHE in the software makes sense and sounds like an easy solution. Ultimately, improving efficiency is my goal. I already do a 90 minute boil for most recipes to avoid DMS and my LHBS has their mill set very well.

I'm open to all suggestions, though.

How do you know they have their mill set well? It doesn't sound like they do if you're only getting 60% efficiency.

Found this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/maximizing-efficiency-when-batch-sparging-77125/

Based on my understanding, I can tell BF that I'm doing a 60-min boil, calculate the recipe and then adjust the sparge at a volume as if I were doing a 90 and that will help compensate. I could also increase mash time to help conversion. Otherwise, all points raised in the initial post on that thread have been addressed.

This doesn't sound right. You shouldn't have to trick your brewing software. Just enter your real boil time and your real pre boil and post boil volumes. In fact it doesn't actually matter what you put into the boil time field. The fields it uses for calculations are the pre and post boil volume fields. Then put your efficiency into the field on the recipe calculator at whatever it's been on the last few batches. Then just add base malt until you get to the OG you want. If you end up low, just keep some DME on hand to make up the difference.

 

[thCapn]

Extract efficiencies after mash and sparge are consistently around 88-89%. That indicates that not only am I mashing/sparring pretty well but the grain grind is also good. I imagine it would be a challenge to get over 90% when infusion mashing and batch sparging, but feel free to correct me.

Volume going into the fermenter is generally right around what is expected, so I don't think I'm seeing too much absorption from hops. I use a hop spider and it works great and the beer tastes great--I haven't had any concerns about lack of utilization.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon

 

[LLBrewer]

You can always sparge more and then boil down to your desired volume into the fermenter. Might require a really long boil and make the bittering hops edition tricky.

 

[peterj]

Extract efficiencies after mash and sparge are consistently around 88-89%. That indicates that not only am I mashing/sparring pretty well but the grain grind is also good. I imagine it would be a challenge to get over 90% when infusion mashing and batch sparging, but feel free to correct me.

Volume going into the fermenter is generally right around what is expected, so I don't think I'm seeing too much absorption from hops. I use a hop spider and it works great and the beer tastes great--I haven't had any concerns about lack of utilization.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon

Wait, what? So are you hitting your preboil gravity? If that's the case then it sounds like you're just not boiling off as much as you're predicting. And in that case you should just change your prediction. Are you leaving a lot of wort in the kettle?

 

[thCapn]

No. Those are some of the reasons this is confusing.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon

 

[droshi]

I usually use this calculator:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

Maybe you are talking about conversion efficiency and others are assuming your meaning brewhouse efficiency?

If you're hitting 88-89% efficiency anywhere I would say you should be hitting your OG. Or are you saying you hit that efficiency for low gravity beers but not for high gravity beers?

Personally I get around 85% conversion efficiency, which eventually translates to an average of ~75% post-boil efficiency, and 70% brewhouse efficiency.

 

[MindenMan]

I used to have the same problem, and quite a while back, I just added more grain to hit my numbers, because I didn't know any better at the time. Speaking strictly of me, not anybody else. At some point later while only using the "recommended" amount of sparge water, I thought well, maybe there is something to make a starter with in there. 10 minutes and 1 gallon of "extra" later the wash was at 1.030, so I poured it into the BK. Yes, it did take more boiling off time but my efficiencies went way up. Oh, by the way, there were two more high gravity gallons left. I don't know why I had to increase my sparge amount so much to the get desired results, and ideas?

 

[peterj]

No. Those are some of the reasons this is confusing.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon

Yeah, I'm confused too. Can you give us all of the numbers from your last brew? Like mash volume, sparge volume, runoff volume, preboil volume, preboil gravity, post boil volume in the kettle, post boil gravity, etc. I think that could help us figure this out.

 

[peterj]

Also, did you take your OG reading of 1.075 before or after you added the corn sugar?

 

[Grannyknot]

Something you might try, is a 90 minute boil.
To account for the additional 30 min worth of boil-off, you collect more pre-boil wort, which allows you to wash more sugars from the grain in the lautering process.

 

[thCapn]

Here's the recipe. http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/148438/dave-the-wise-iipa

I did a 90min boil after collecting 8 gallons of wort. I added the sugar before the boil. I finished with 5 gallons in the carboy. Active fermentation is still bubbling away, so I'm not worried about the finished product. I'm sure it'll be fine and taste good. I just want to hit my high grav numbers when that's what I'm shooting for. My low grav beers typically come put pretty close to target.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon

 

[peterj]

Here's the recipe. http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/148438/dave-the-wise-iipa

I did a 90min boil after collecting 8 gallons of wort. I added the sugar before the boil. I finished with 5 gallons in the carboy. Active fermentation is still bubbling away, so I'm not worried about the finished product. I'm sure it'll be fine and taste good. I just want to hit my high grav numbers when that's what I'm shooting for. My low grav beers typically come put pretty close to target.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon

I can't see the link, I think it's marked as Private or something.

 

[thCapn]

Try it now.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon

 

[Arrheinous]

By the time you start putting 18 pounds of grain into a tun you're going to be seeing diminishing returns. I've had similar problems getting above 1.070 and the second plot on that thread shows the downward slope of efficiency with more grain.

At that point maybe you should consider a partial mash? Make up the recipe as normal but then convert a fraction of the grain bill (base malt, etc.) to DME/LME so you are mashing in a 'smaller beer' so you can retain the higher efficiency.

 

[thCapn]

That occurred to me a couple days ago.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon

 

[haberdasher]

Try adding a couple oz of Acidulated malt to drive the mash PH down. My efficiency improves markedly

 

[MindenMan]

If you know your boil off rate, you could sparge a bit more and calculate when there are " 60 minutes left in the boil" and then add your hops. If this suggestion has already been made, I apologize.

 

[thCapn]

Well, with over 86% attenuation so far it's at 8.5% ABV and the sample tasted dry. Time to start dry-hopping and then rack & cold-crash after I get the Schwartzbier out of the ferm chamber on Sunday. Can't complain.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon

 

[MattGuk]

Do you check your mash ph?
are u sure your volumes are correct?
I found that once adjusted my ph due to having high alkalinity, my efficiency shot up, i brew using the full volume no sparge method and always hit 72% - 74% and the only thing i can put it down to is ph.
Also with brewers friend, remember, that when you enter your batch volume you need to enter it as the volume in your kettle and not your fermenter, as this will show as an efficiency drop.
For mine i enter 26 litres even though im aiming for 23 in the ferm, as i lose 3 litres due to kettle dead space.
Hope that makes sense