Quantcast

Candi Syrup Colors - Probably Not What You Think They Are

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

VikeMan

It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
2,991
Reaction score
1,969
You may have noticed that the one pound pouches of Syrup from Candi Syrup, Inc. used to say (for example) "°L 180" for the D-180 product, and so on. The same product now says 180 SRM. Of course, °L is usually associated with ingredients and SRM with finished beers. I have always suspected that the Candi Syrup value was actually the SRM as if the syrup itself were a finished beer, and the change to "SRM" on the packaging seemed to support that. So I contacted the company and learned that the value is in fact based from a spectrophotometer reading using 430nm, the same wavelength used to measure beer SRM.

So, armed with that fact, and the relative weight and volume of the product, I crunched some numbers a couple of different ways, and came up with the following ingredient Lovibond values to use in brewing software calculations when adding Candi Syrup to the "grain bill." These values have been included in BrewCipher. Posting here in case non-BC users can get some use from the data.

D-240: 134L
D-180: 88L
D-90: 32L
D-45: 12L
D-5 (Golden): 0.5L
D-1 (Simplicity): 0.05L


Why not just use the SRM number as if it's the Lovibond value? What matters is what the color will do to the overall wort color. With malts, it's easy, because a pound of malt is going to have roughly the same crushed volume/surface/density/stuff as any other malt. But liquids (or any ingredient that isn't malt-like) are a different animal. (As a thought experiment, imagine your one pound package of 180 SRM syrup actually weighs a ton, but occupies the same volume, and is still 180 SRM. It's easy to see that a pound of it (1/2000th of the package) wouldn't contribute the same color as a pound of the real product. But they had the same SRM, so the industry standard conversion formula from SRM to Lovibond doesn't help when trying to determine what a pound of either will do to a wort's color.)

As a proof of concept, if you have brewing software handy, try this: Enter D-180 as a new ingredient, and assign it 88 Lovibond (or 88 "SRM" (ugh!) if that's what your software calls it.) Now, build a batch with nothing but D-180. Set all loss type parameters to 0...Boil Length, Dead Spaces, Hops, etc. You want to use One Gallon of D-180 to make One Gallon of wort (i.e. no added water). One gallon of D-180 weighs 12.30769 pounds, so enter that (12.30769) as your D-180 amount. You should see a resulting wort/beer SRM of 180, assuming the software uses a properly implemented Morey's formula. (This will work perfectly in BrewCipher, though I can't vouche for other programs/sheets...you may have to fudge it by adding (or allowing it to automatically add) water to build up to the one gallon total, if it doesn't know the volume per weight of the product.)
 

Silver_Is_Money

Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
5,474
Reaction score
1,615
Location
N/E Ohio
I agree, nice work! It works perfectly as you described it for 'Mash Made Easy'.

Are the colors of these syrups visibly noticeable to be much lighter in appearance than one would intuitively (and if you are correct, appreciably wrongly) presume?
 
OP
VikeMan

VikeMan

It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
2,991
Reaction score
1,969
Are the colors of these syrups visibly noticeable to be much lighter in appearance than one would intuitively (and if you are correct, appreciably wrongly) presume?
It depends on the beer, but I think so. I had always been suspicious of the old "°L" values on the packages for that reason.
 
OP
VikeMan

VikeMan

It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
2,991
Reaction score
1,969
Agreed! The older Lovibond values must also have been off in left field somewhere.
The old Lov values on the packages were simply the SRM values, but labelled as °L . They measured SRM (as if the syrup was a finished beer) and used that as the Lov value.
 

Silver_Is_Money

Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
5,474
Reaction score
1,615
Location
N/E Ohio
To clarify, if the listed SRM values are incorrect in a logical way which can be explained and sorted out (as you have done, presuming this assessment to be correct), then the initially assigned Lovibond values were doubly wrong and even more illogical (albeit that the rabbit hole can still be maneuvered around successfully without falling in if all of the relevant facts are known)..
 
OP
VikeMan

VikeMan

It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
2,991
Reaction score
1,969
To clarify, if the listed SRM values are incorrect in a logical way which can be explained and sorted out (as you have done, presuming this assessment to be correct), then the initially assigned Lovibond values were doubly wrong and even more illogical (albeit that the rabbit hole can still be maneuvered around successfully without falling in if all of the relevant facts are known)..
To be clear, I have no reason to doubt the SRM values that are on the packages, and actually have good reason to believe them. It's just that they are not useful as Lov values in calculations that are expecting malt Lov values.

ETA: IMO no ingredient should ever be assigned an "SRM" value. Solid ingredients cannot actually have "SRM" measured anyway. You can measure the SRM of liquid ingredients, but it's not particularly useful without jumping through some hoops.
 
Last edited:
Top