Can you stop yeast before it gets to dry and if so how?

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tlc

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I am a noob and just received my brew kit and going to make some apple cider. I like my cider sweet and after going to the brew shop and reading on the internet I'm more confused than ever so I thought I'd try a forum. I have never been in a forum before so please forgive me if I mess up on how to post and reply in advance. My first question is on the yeast. The shop gave me red star cote des blanc but from what I read is it takes it dry and I like it sweet so do I use this yeast or get a different one. They said all yeasts will make it dry so I'll need to stop the fermentation before it gets to 1.000. Is there a special spot to post this question or is this the one.
Thanks for your help...tlc
 
Welcome.
Your question is in the correct forum.
All drying is, is the yeast eating all the sugars and making alcohol. Any yeast that can take the alcohol percentage without dying will, eventually, dry out the cider. Someone else can probably answer you better as I am a beer brewer and don't know the cider particulars. That being said, I would think you'd want to cold crash it when you reach your desired flavor. Crash it for 2-3 days and rack it off the yeast cake. Let it sit again at room temp and if the fermentation kicks up again, crash and rack again.
 
Welcome to the forum. Certain wine yeasts and beer yeasts will leave low levels of residual sugar or impart some fruity characteristics. If you enjoy a lot of sweetness and carbonation you may have a bit of a task ahead of you to obtain that result If you will be bottle conditioning. If you want it sweet and still it is just a matter of letting fermentation finish, adding k sorbate (to prevent yeast from thriving) then “back sweetening”.
 
This seems to be a popular topic in recent months. Yes, you can stop fermentation before it gets down to 1.000.

There are three approaches you can take.
1. use a yeast like SO4 which typically finishes around 1.003 or so. This leaves a slight residual sweetness.

2. Heat pasteurise the cider to kill the yeast, which stops fermentation. When the cider is at the sweetness you want, to pasteurise, heat it to over 60C (typically 70C). Pasteurising is a function of temperature and time, so heating to 70C and holding it at this temperature for 10 minutes then letting it cool down will generate enough pasteurisation to stop fermentation. This will give you a sweet still cider.

3. As suggested above, let it ferment down to 1.000 then pasteurise it and add back juice, AJC or sugar to get the sweetness that you want.

See Pappers post at the top of the forum for information on an effective method of pasteurisation.

Sweet carbonated cider is a little more tricky but can be done. It involves bottling the cider a bit above the sweetness you want, letting carbonation build up and consume some of the sugar to generate CO2, then pasteurise to stop the action. Alternatively, fully ferment, pasteurise, add a non fermentable sweetener such as xylitol, splenda etc, then about 1-2 tsp of sugar and a pinch of yeast per litre to generate some carbonation and bottle.

There have been a lot of posts about this recently, so use the search function and soak up the information.

Have fun!
 
In Claude Jolicoeur's cider making book, he goes through a method that uses cold temperatures and multiple rackings to stop fermentation.
I usually take the "lazy" approach and make a sweeter cider by blending in the glass as I drink it.
I suppose you could call it a cider cocktail.
Things I've blended my dry cider with:
Frozen Apple Juice concentrate or other frozen juice concentrates
A high ABV but sweet home made mead
Homebrew or commercial beer
A sweet commercial cider like Angry Orchard
From the choice above, adding the FAJC is best if you want more apple flavor, adding the mead provides some depth and complexity, using Angry Orchard for blending is the most expensive but easiest if you want a little carbonation.
Another method I'll use it to take a 1.5 L screw top wine bottle, add the cider and some kind of sweet addition and keep it in the fridge and drink it within a week or so.
 
Crazy question but what is a sticky and how do I find them. I've seen sever post that say "see sticky"
Thanks
 
Crazy question but what is a sticky and how do I find them. I've seen sever post that say "see sticky"
Thanks


a sticky is a thread that the local powers that be have deemed worthy of always being at the top of the forum threads....

edit: this really is the only forum I deemed worthy enough for me to stick around in, lol Welcome! :mug:


(and when i was into cider, i kegged it thought the bisulfite killed the yeast. slow carbed, glad i wasn't bottling looking back! the keg was always gone in a couple weeks)

edit #2: i believe they sell sterile filter with a fine enough micro rating to get rid of the yeast also? just have to figure out to force it trough it.
 
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Oh now I get it...it's like an attachment...that makes sence...thanks for your help
 
If I had my druthers, the Pappers' Pasteurization thread would be rewritten and greatly shortened. That thread is from ten years ago and even Pappers' methods morphed over the several very active years that entailed the 1000 plus posts on that thread. One actually has to read most of it to get the gist, which can take a few days.

That said, @Maylar and @Chalkyt have vastly shortened descriptions of the technique used in thread after thread, just in this last month even. Even then, the discussions (not the process itself) that wound around the subject are very confused at times as you throw in bottle types, yeast types, pressure testing methods, temperature shock values, etc.

I'm getting ready to bottle pasteurize my second and third batches in the next day or two. This time a bit sweeter. So timing is more critical. I doubt I have an issues but will take all precautions. I have plastic coke bottles filled to use as indicators of pressure range. And I am not afraid to open and recap bottles as the time to pasteurize gets close. I want the ability to target a sweetness, carbonization and flavor exactly as I want it.
 
Have you considered a non fermentable sweetener? Before I started kegging I used Xylitol sugar at 3 tbsp per gallon and it was perfect. No after taste and no need to pasteurize. Prime with corn sugar and done.
 
Being a newbie I don't have a kegging system so I'd like a sweet with a little carbonation. I keep hearing sweet and carbonization is hard so I might just settle for one or the other at this point.
 
If I had my druthers, the Pappers' Pasteurization thread would be rewritten and greatly shortened. That thread is from ten years ago and even Pappers' methods morphed over the several very active years that entailed the 1000 plus posts on that thread. One actually has to read most of it to get the gist, which can take a few days.

That said, @Maylar and @Chalkyt have vastly shortened descriptions of the technique used in thread after thread, just in this last month even. Even then, the discussions (not the process itself) that wound around the subject are very confused at times as you throw in bottle types, yeast types, pressure testing methods, temperature shock values, etc.

I'm getting ready to bottle pasteurize my second and third batches in the next day or two. This time a bit sweeter. So timing is more critical. I doubt I have an issues but will take all precautions. I have plastic coke bottles filled to use as indicators of pressure range. And I am not afraid to open and recap bottles as the time to pasteurize gets close. I want the ability to target a sweetness, carbonization and flavor exactly as I want it.
Let me know how the sweeter one came out. I'm thinking on trying the pasteurize method. From what I understand it looks like you let it run it's course and then rack to 2nd for clearing up and then do your back sweetening with FAJC to taste. Is this correct or am missing anything. Also do you add anything to stop the process after it runs it course like the potassium sorbate or just do nothing. Lots of questions but thanks for your help.
 
Let me know how the sweeter one came out. I'm thinking on trying the pasteurize method. From what I understand it looks like you let it run it's course and then rack to 2nd for clearing up and then do your back sweetening with FAJC to taste. Is this correct or am missing anything. Also do you add anything to stop the process after it runs it course like the potassium sorbate or just do nothing. Lots of questions but thanks for your help.
Last batch was 5 gallons of fresh pressed juice from my trees with 2 cans of blueberry pomegranate concentrate and a couple pounds of chopped up frozen blueberries. Ran it all the way to 1.001 with 1116 champagne yeast, racked it and added more chopped up blueberries, let that clear for a month. Then I added a gallon of fresh pressed to it an another can of blueberry/pom frozen concentrate and bottled. I checked coke bottle daily, sometimes more. When I got a tight plastic coke bottle I started opening the pint bottle to do a test look and immediately recapped the bottles. A couple of those and a couple days later figured was enough so pasteurized.

This batch, that gets pasteurized today, was 2 x 1 gallon jugs of store bought as test batches. I still have a 5 gallon batch aging that I want to sweeten and bottle, figured I'd test with store bought in smaller batches. I used Nottingham this time and let it finish. Then racked off each gallon separately. Added 3 pints of same store juice. One of the gallons got 1/2 pound of brown sugar, some ginger syrup I made as well as a couple ounces of Starbucks cinnamon dolce. The other gallon just got the 3 pints of fresh juice. I do not like the taste I ended up with in the bottling bucket from the dolce syrup. It is overwhelming yucky. At least I only put it in a batch a little over 5 quarts.
 
Pasteurization went without any excitement. My plastic test bottles are hard as rocks and I used standard, new, 12 oz tall beer bottles. The one bottle I opened had good pressure release sound and immediately formed a 3/4 inch foam on top of the liquid when opened. Immediately recapped. 10 minute warm bath at 140ƒ and then 10 minutes in 180ƒ. Bottles were mid 150ƒ when removed.
 
blueberry one sounds awesome. Thanks for all the great advice. I can't wait to make my first batch. It's in 1st stage ferm now.
 
blueberry one sounds awesome. Thanks for all the great advice. I can't wait to make my first batch. It's in 1st stage ferm now.
The one thing I would change on the blueberry is I am going to add at least one ounce of corn sugar per gallon as prime after adding the fresh juice and frozen concentrate. I want just a tad more carbonation and a tad more sweetness. Fiddly bit different.
 
Another newbie question. I've had my cider in primary for 4 days now and I don't see any action in the airlock so I took the top off the bucket and it's definitely actively producing small bubbles. I took a hyro reading before I started and it was a 1.070 and I checked it today and it's a 1.060 so it's working but not producing bubbles so should I just let it keep fermenting and then check it in a couple more days. I don't want to disturb it while it's working so what would be a good time to check it again. I'm using the red star cotes des blanc and the room is 65deg if that helps. thanks for all your awesome imput I've received so far and hopefully I get to the point that I don't have to keep asking questions.
 
When you stop asking questions you stop growing your methods. Keep asking.

My bet is you have a place on your bucket lid seal that is leaking. Doesn't hurt anything during primary. if you do a secondary you need to reduce oxygen contaminants to minimums. That's when a good airlock and an almost full container pay off. I've found buckets tough to secondary in, so I spent the $$ on glass carboys of sufficient capacity to take over during secondary.
 
either ya have a crack / bad seal somewhere or not enough CO2 has been created yet --- larger the headspace the longer it takes to see airlock activity.

Cheers -- Welcome & Good Luck!
 
Good news is I do have a carboy for the secondary when I am ready to rack it. Roughly how long should I wait until taking another hydro reading since I can see lots of tiny bubbles I do know it's working.
 
Good news is I do have a carboy for the secondary when I am ready to rack it. Roughly how long should I wait until taking another hydro reading since I can see lots of tiny bubbles I do know it's working.
Not really a time thing. Too temperature and sugar based for anyone to answer that. Also depends on whether you're going to let it finish and then sweeten and bottle or just bottle or if you want to catch it on the way down.
 
I haven't used cote des blanc but I assume that it behaves like most other yeasts.

Generally I ferment in a bucket with a loose lid or cloth cover to keep out any flying or crawling nasties (i.e. no air lock). It is easy to keep an eye on primary fermentation which should initially go through a turbulent stage where quite a bit of foam etc will build up (this is mostly floating solids and CO2 bubbles which tends to keep the O2 at bay).

I found that primary fermentation under air lock invariably pushes the foam into the airlock and creates a bit of a mess, so just lift the lid and have a look.

The foam will eventually settle at a SG of around 1.030 in a week or so (the SG isn't critical, it is whatever it is when the foam settles). This is when you rack to secondary under air lock with very little head space and start the real cider making process.

Claude Jolicoeur refers to this approach in his chapter on Fermentation and I have found it to be very easy and effective as you can see what is happening without the bother of wondering why there is no bubbling in the primary air lock.

Keep asking questions, there is a lot of knowledge rattling around on the forum.
 
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I figured I'd test the cider and get a hydro reading tomorrow since it will be 3 days since the last one. what type of cloth do you cover it with.
 
Just a tea towel held in place with a large rubber band or even with the bucket lid sitting loosely on top. I tend to do several small batches depending on the apples I get from my trees, so this suits my methods.

For a gallon (for a 5 litre secondary carboy in my case) I do a primary of 5.5 litres or so in a 10 litre bottling bucket. This has plenty of space for initial exposure to O2 (desirable for establishing the yeast population according to Claude Jolicoeur) and for the turbulent foam to build up (sometimes an inch or more thick), so I can do a fairly clean transfer to secondary without picking up too much settled muck from the bottom of the bucket.
 
Should i just take the lid off and put it on loosely since i do have a whole bunch of tiny bubbles but not any turbulent foam
 
I will probably let it finish and then rack to secondary and then back sweeten. Thanks for you help
I’ve made a lot of ciders and meads and that’s your best bet, let it finish dry, transfer to secondary and then add some sorbate and metasulphite to kill the yeast and then back sweeten. It’s a pain in the ass to me to try to hit that sweet spot on your hydrometer that makes it a semi sweet or sweet cider. Also around 1.020 is considered sweet, that normally what I shoot for when back sweetening/
 
Has anyone tried to do pasteurizing with a single propane burner. It seems to me if you do get a bottle bomb then it's outside on the deck and not on the stove so easier clean up and wife not mad at you. I think I might try this method since you could heat the water to desired temp and then shut off the burner. do you see anything wrong with this method...thanks
 
I am a noob and just received my brew kit and going to make some apple cider. I like my cider sweet and after going to the brew shop and reading on the internet I'm more confused than ever so I thought I'd try a forum. I have never been in a forum before so please forgive me if I mess up on how to post and reply in advance. My first question is on the yeast. The shop gave me red star cote des blanc but from what I read is it takes it dry and I like it sweet so do I use this yeast or get a different one. They said all yeasts will make it dry so I'll need to stop the fermentation before it gets to 1.000. Is there a special spot to post this question or is this the one.
Thanks for your help...tlc

IF you keep the cider refrigerated 100% of the time post fermentation - it's possible & I do it All the time as part of my standard protocol :)

Using D47 yeast - I start with a mix of FAJC & 100% AJ -- SG of 1.08 and "stop" it around FG 1.03 (ABV ~ 6.75%) by tossing in fridge to cold crash for a few days -- then racking back into 1gal containers. I tend to bottle carb up a few large swing-top bottles by filling and leaving em out at room temp for 4-5days - then tossing em back in the fridge. The 1gal containers tend to get a bit of "fizz" over time - but stay just the right sweetness for me.

Cheers and good luck!
 
Has anyone tried to do pasteurizing with a single propane burner. It seems to me if you do get a bottle bomb then it's outside on the deck and not on the stove so easier clean up and wife not mad at you. I think I might try this method since you could heat the water to desired temp and then shut off the burner. do you see anything wrong with this method...thanks

How I do it. Although I use two burners. Heat water bath canner to 140ƒ, turn off burner and stick 7 or 8 battles in to warm. Heat pressure canner with no gauge or pressure weight up to 175ish ƒ and turn off. Move bottle from warm to hot water and leave for 10 minutes. Pull finished bottle out of pot, turn stove back on for the few minutes a big burner takes to get back to 175 and move bottles over from warm water. Crank up the burner on the warm water and a few minutes later it is to 140 again and start the cycle over.

Those Camp Chef stoves run around a $100 and are worth weight in gold for canning, and now pasteurizing.

pasteurizing.jpg
 
Thanks for the reply and pic to show it. I will be getting that set up to use in the garage
 
My cider has been at a 1.004 for a couple of days now so if it is still there tomorrow I plan on racking to secondary and adding a little cinnamon and nutmeg. I started at a 1.080 so what would that make my alcohol level at and can someone please show how to do the math so i can figure it out in the future. One more quick question is do I fill the carboy with my left over apple juice to bet it within 2" of the neck or make up some FAJC from a can.
Thanks
 
Another option is to sweeten with unfermentables, like lactose, stevia, monk fruit extract, tagatose, xylitol, erythritol, Splenda, etc.

1.080-1.004=.076*131=9.96% ABV
 
Thanks for the help with the math. I see where the .076 comes from so what is the 131 multiplier
 
Thanks for the help with the math. I see where the .076 comes from so what is the 131 multiplier
131 never changes. Just multiply it by the gravity to convert to ABV
(131.25 is more accurate but the difference is negligible)
 
It was at a 1.000 so I just racked 5 gallons to secondary and added 3 cinnamon sticks and 2 tsp vanilla. I will let it clarify for a couple of weeks and hopefully be ready to bottle. Do I need to take any more hydrometer readings or just go by taste now. I'm going to pasteurize so I'm trying to stay one step a head as this is my first time making cider. I tasted it and it was dry and bitter as expected so what will my next step be to get it sweet and carbonated. You guys have been a wealth of knowledge and Thanks for everyones input.
 
I have 5 gallons doing secondary just like that - I used cinnamon syrup and tincture that I made along with nutmeg and allspice and a separate ginger syrup. Been sitting a couple months. I plan on adding 5 cans of AJC, adjusting taste from there and then prime with corn sugar so that the final result is the same as my final taste right before bottling - with the addition of carbing. Carbonation using this method is the new part for me, so I am really interested in how that comes out. Note - this 5 gal batch at end of primary was rocket fuel. I used 1116 champagne yeast and it went to .998. No flavors at all but the high octane - right stuff for Yeager, RIP.

I have more options to add flavors. Have some cinnamon extract and will also consider malic acid additions should it need a bit of sharpness.
 
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