can you help me estimate ph from grain bill?

[fluketamer]

or point me to a simple calculator.

my filtered tap is 7.

i have added 4-5 oz of aciduated malt in the past to my lagers and pilsners to get a mash ph of 5.4ish

i got a kit from more beer with the following grist

5 gallons

8 lbs of california select
1 lb of crystal 10
8 oz of carapils

i dont have a water report.

is there a calculator i can plug in this grain and it will tell me the ph then i can add or subtract acid malt to get to somewhere around 5.4

i know i have to get on top of my water and thats my next hurdle but for now can i fudge it with acid malt

 

[Willy]

or point me to a simple calculator.

my filtered tap is 7.

i have added 4-5 oz of aciduated malt in the past to my lagers and pilsners to get a mash ph of 5.4ish

i got a kit from more beer with the following grist

5 gallons

8 lbs of california select
1 lb of crystal 10
8 oz of carapils

i dont have a water report.

is there a calculator i can plug in this grain and it will tell me the ph then i can add or subtract acid malt to get to somewhere around 5.4

i know i have to get on top of my water and thats my next hurdle but for now can i fudge it with acid malt

I put the fermentables you provided into BeerFather and it came out to 5.49 est Ph without mineral additions.

Also included in the screen grab is possible mineral additions to bring the Ph a little lower.

Hope this helps.

 

[Willy]

or point me to a simple calculator.

my filtered tap is 7.

i have added 4-5 oz of aciduated malt in the past to my lagers and pilsners to get a mash ph of 5.4ish

i got a kit from more beer with the following grist

5 gallons

8 lbs of california select
1 lb of crystal 10
8 oz of carapils

i dont have a water report.

is there a calculator i can plug in this grain and it will tell me the ph then i can add or subtract acid malt to get to somewhere around 5.4

i know i have to get on top of my water and thats my next hurdle but for now can i fudge it with acid malt

As for finding your water source Ph - first go look up what the municipality says you got. Yes... It varies and best to test exactly what you got ... But the report gives you an idea of where to begin.

I never got mine tested (by a service or via online lab) ... And just use the city's water report from the treatment plant. So far it has worked out well.

 

[mac_1103]

The pH of your water doesn't matter. The alkalinity (buffering capacity) of your water does. NYC water report says average alkalinity is 22, with a range of 14-74. What kind of filter are you using?

Bru'nWater says that grain bill would come out at around 5.7 with distilled water and slightly higher with RO water (since it has a small amount of alkalinity) or NYC water report averages. Using those averages, it comes up with a pH of 5.44 if you add half a pound of acid malt. The problem with using averages of course, is that the ranges are fairly big.

 

[fluketamer]

i filter my tap with this:

i found a water report for my zipcode
:

hardness 27.8 (not sure if this was general or total )
ca 7.6
mg 1.9
na 13.8
cl 21.7
sulfate 4
ph 7.3
alk (caco3) 29.3

i cant find the bicarb

yeah i plugged this into brewers friend and it said 5.69 and i think it went ot 5.49 with 4 oz of acid malt.

so i think i will add 4 oz of acid malt to the grain bill.
i dont think it can hurt

 

[MaxStout]

If you add salts to the mash (e.g., calcium chloride and/or calcium sulfate), those will lower your mash pH.

 

[fluketamer]

If you add salts to the mash (e.g., calcium chloride and/or calcium sulfate), those will lower your mash pH.

thanks i know this. i dont have salts and didnt want to go get .

is the mash pH just an efficiency thing or is it a flavor thing also.

 

[dmtaylor]

Doing the math in my head:

Rule of thumb from Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels is that soft water will give a mash pH of 5.8, that's the starting point. From there, he says 10% crystal or dark roasted malts will reduce pH by 0.3, and 20% will reduce by 0.5. Your grist is at 15% crystal malts so that should be 0.4. Hence, you should get a mash pH of roughly 5.4 with zero acid or salt additions.

Anyway... mash pH should be closer to 5.5-5.6. Everybody's doing it wrong. Rabbit hole link below.

I wouldn't add any acid then. Salts optional.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/will-it-mash-at-ph-5-00.667992/page-2#post-8653242

 

[Peebee]

i cant find the bicarb

Yeah you can ...

alk (caco3) 29.3

"Alk (caco3)" is only an abbreviation of "Alkalinity as Calcium Carbonate". It's "as" because it's telling you it's measured "as" something it's not. So, if it's not the something, you can turn it into something else ... like "bicarbonate"! You have 29.3mg/L "as" Calcium Carbonate" so (magic number required ... here it is, "1.22") so "Bicarbonate" equals 29.3 x 1.22 = 35.75mg/L.

Of course, that number is an "as" to. But at least it usually "is" bicarbonate, instead of usually an utter fantasy that even a little bit is Calcium Carbonate.

Did you get that? Welcome to an area of lies and fantasies. You get used to it ... or you don't; how ever you want to play it!

 

[Peebee]

hardness 27.8 (not sure if this was general or total )

It's "Total". But it's as much use to Beer Brewing as a Chocolate Fireguard is to stop things jumping out of fires. Ignore it.

58.77mg/L Alkalinity as HCO3 (0.96mEq/L ... that's better, mEq/L doesn't pretend to be anything in particular). Total Alkalinity, but there's usually some "Nitrate" and "Potassium" kicking about which I haven't been able to include, so the figure is going to be slightly less in reality.


[EDIT: Of course! Pass your water through whatever that filter supposed to do, and wave goodbye to all those analysis of ions in your water ... get a post-filter analysis.]

[EDIT-2: I've just noticed. 2.5mg/L of Nitrate wasn't cleared from my calculator before I did the above calculations. So that'll make up some of whatever the real value is. It's usually about 0-30mg/L.]

 

[fluketamer]

so from what i have gathered from this thread.
1 since i am using nyc water which is relatively hard? i think then i can prolly brew as is or add 4 oz of acid malt and it will still prolly make beer either way.
2 i should really be paying attention t o my water (but if i dont really pay too close attention its ok also)
3 theres a lot of different ways to skin pale ale.
4 math is hard

i willl likely go with the acid malt and test the ph during the mash and hope its 5.4-5.5

 

[Peebee]

so from what i have gathered from this thread.
1 since i am using nyc water which is relatively hard? i think then i can prolly brew as is or add 4 oz of acid malt and it will still prolly make beer either way.
2 i should really be paying attention t o my water (but if i dont really pay too close attention its ok also)
3 theres a lot of different ways to skin pale ale.
4 math is hard

i willl likely go with the acid malt and test the ph during the mash and hope its 5.4-5.5

It's not very "hard" at all. Acids will very likely mess up your water for brewing.

You do need more Calcium, Sulphate and Chloride. You probably need to do something to remove any disinfectant (Chlorine/Chloramine).

4 math is hard

Don't knock it ... I'm writing this answer 'cos I'm taking a break from Maths.

 

[MaxStout]

As @Peebee pointed out, use your water filter. Have the output water tested, though it will probably be very low in minerals if the filters are doing their job. Then build your water from that. The water chem doesn't have to be terribly complicated. You can get in the ballpark with just a couple additions.

 

[mac_1103]

it will probably be very low in minerals if the filters are doing their job

According to Waterdrop, the filter he's using is a 0.5 micron carbon block that doesn't reduce TDS.

 

[fluketamer]

is there any reason why i cant just dough in , check pH and then add a few ounces of acid malt to lower it if needed.

 

[AdjunctBrewer]

is there any reason why i cant just dough in , check pH and then add a few ounces of acid malt to lower it if needed.

pH changes over time and takes some time to settle down. Other than the ping pong effect (oops too much acid... oops too much lime... etc...) you might get, there's nothing wrong with it, just don't keep adjusting it to correct. Correct once and you're done.

Honestly, Bru N Water, Mash Made Easy and Brewers Friend are so simplistic to use, you might as well take the couple hours (minutes?) of goofing around with one of them to learn. That way you're (most likely) in the ball park to start with.

 

[mac_1103]

is there any reason why i cant just dough in , check pH and then add a few ounces of acid malt to lower it if needed.

It takes 10-15 minutes for the pH to stabilize. It takes me at least 5-10 minutes to cool my sample. At that point, I might be at 50% conversion. Maybe more.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I take mash pH measurements at 20, 40, and just before fly sparging, usually 60 minutes. Typically, pH is stable at 20, may move up a tenth by 40, and stays there to the end. I check end-of-runnings and then pre-boil pH, and adjust if needed. All data is recorded...

Cheers!

 

[SpeedYellow]

pH spreadsheets are a waste of time, and notoriously inaccurate. Acid malt is also highly unpredictable. If your bicarbonate (HCO3) levels are ballpark 50,* then just add 0.4 mL lactic acid (88%) per gallon of strike water, and half that level to sparge water. It'll get you close enough to 5.3. Folks spend way too much time on this. If it's a super dark stout, then you can get by with a third of that amount of lactic acid.

Obviously, this procedure should be adjusted for your water/ingredients/processes based on experience. It should only take you a few batches with test strips or pH meter before you get it pinned down.

* If not around 50, then dilute with distilled water until it is.

 

[mac_1103]

pH spreadsheets are a waste of time, and notoriously inaccurate.

My mash pH always comes out within about 0.1 of what Bru'nWater predicts. I doubt that using an arbitrary lactic acid addition would get me closer.