Can the success of Heady Topper be repeated?

[JonBrew]

Hello all,

I'm a home brewer living in Scotland, UK and as a result, although I have heard and read of the the mythical Heady, I have never, and probably will never, try it for myself.

Nonetheless, I'm fascinated by the success that the Alchemist has had through Heady and it makes me wonder if this is really a one off freak combination of a genuinely very good beer (it must be, right?), perfect market timing and consumer hype? Or, is it possible that, even in a now well established and worldwide craft beer market, a success and cult following, the likes of which Heady Topper has created, could be repeated?

I appreciate that there are a good few beers ranked within the best in the world, such as Westy 12, Pliny, KBS, and so forth, that are hugely sought after and (some) are rare, but it strikes me that as far as broad appeal, critical praise and unrelenting demand goes, Heady stands out head and shoulders above the rest.

Would be great to hear the thoughts of the HBT community on this.

Cheers!

 

[b-boy]

Heady is really, really, really good. But, so are a lot of other beers. In fact, I've had a few that were just as good, maybe even better. Hill Farmstead comes to mind.

I think the Alchemist got really lucky, and got a lot of hype. The fact that the beer is limited to a very small geographic area, and is difficult to get under the best of circumstances doesn't hurt. Combine that with the huge surge in craft beer that started a few years back and beer rating websites, and you have the perfect storm for a beer like Heady to gain a cult following.

I drove to from NY to Vermont 2 years ago to get some, and was glad I did. I don't think I'd do it again though.

 

[JonBrew]

That's a good point b-boy and kind aligns with my impressions. I could only imagine that Heady is genuinely a really great, standout double IPA but one that was also lucky enough to be released into the market at just the right time and benefited from a surge in beer geek-ery and hype (this is not a criticism by the way).

Hill Farmstead, again, is one that does not make it to the Scottish shores sadly. I did recently have a can of Hop-diggity by Mother Earth Brewing Co. which was really great and I kind of imagined it being pretty close to Heady based on the descriptions I've read etc.

 

[Homercidal]

I've never had it, but I am pretty sure it's overrated.

If anyone would like to prove me wrong, just send me a bottle so I have a basis to refute your point of view.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I've never had it, but I am pretty sure it's overrated.

If anyone would like to prove me wrong, just send me a bottle so I have a basis to refute your point of view.

I've had it a few times when I thought beer trading was cool, then when I started receiving all these hyped beers and realizing they taste like everything else, I quit trading.

 

[Yesfan]

The question I wonder about is, with all the success Alchemist Brewing Co has had with Heady Topper, I wonder if they could have that same type of success if they decided to add another beer. I find it amazing that a brewery can have that much success on just one beer. Blows my mind.


Do you think if Alchemist came out with a stout, saison, etc., could that beer possibly be as good, and maybe achieve the same cult status, as Heady? I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to try and/or think they should consider it.

 

[Redlantern]

Had a few Heady Toppers in my time.

My view is this -
It is a great beer.
The melding of the bready, hoppy, estery elements is unique and wonderful.

It is great to get it when you can.

It is a great beer, but it has lost a lot of luster for me as I realized that creativity and artistic performance in brewing is now the norm. Heady, while still great, is now a bit less able to stand out. There are many that in their own way are equal to Heady (to me anyway)

I have my preferences over it, but will never, ever turn one down.

 

[AK7007]

It's a perfect storm situation. It might happen again, but you probably can't predict it. Heady is good, but it isn't head and shoulders above in a way that would "deserve" being so coveted in comparison to other beers that it floats an entire brewery

 

[JonBrew]

yesfan - that's a great point, interestingly, whilst researching the Alchemist, i learned that they're expanding their facility soon with the aim of not producing more Heady Topper, but adding new beers to their range!

like you I find it amazing that they have had such success producing only one beer all this time. I cant think of a single other brewer, certainly in the UK anyway, that operates in that way.

 

[Braufessor]

The question I wonder about is, with all the success Alchemist Brewing Co has had with Heady Topper, I wonder if they could have that same type of success if they decided to add another beer. I find it amazing that a brewery can have that much success on just one beer. Blows my mind.


Do you think if Alchemist came out with a stout, saison, etc., could that beer possibly be as good, and maybe achieve the same cult status, as Heady? I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to try and/or think they should consider it.

They do brew other beers (including stouts) - not anywhere near the focus that they put on Heady - but they do brew them.

I have had Heady Topper quite a few times. I would include it in my "Top 10" list of IPA's I have had for sure. I really like it. Of course, I would also include A couple IPA's that I can get easily around here as well. I think every great beer that is hard to get for someone ends up being "over hyped" - how could they not be. I guess I would say the one thing about it (and other great IPA's) is they are different. Pliny is overhyped - but it is delicious, and I can't say I have ever had a beer quite like it. Same with Heady..... and some of the treehouse beers, and toppling goliath beers, etc. I think that is one of the things that the great beers have in common. It is not that they are "greater" than all the other beers. It is that they are "one of" the great beers AND there is something unique about them that helps them stand out in some way.

 

[Yesfan]

.........I think every great beer that is hard to get for someone ends up being "over hyped" - how could they not be.......

Totally agree with you on that. I've had more clones of Heady than the actual beer itself. The clones blew me away on how flavorful they were. I was expecting the Heady to take it several notches above that when I was finally able to get a can of it.

But it didn't.

Don't get me wrong, it is a very, very awesome IPA. It's definitely in my top ten IPA list as well, but I was sorta bummed as I was so pumped on FINALLY tasting the real thing to not been blown out of the sky by it. In all fairness, I think the emphasis should have been put more on how well the clones measured up to the original than how the original wasn't a night and day difference. If I had tasted the original first, then I imagine the beer would have lived up to "my hype". Instead of blown out of the sky, I'll just live with being blown off the mountain top instead. That's still impressive.


Good to know they do other styles. I love stouts, so put theirs on my top ten stouts to try, since the Heady is that good of a beer.

 

[Braufessor]

I have not had their stout. Have had some of their other IPA's - like Focal Banger.

The dark beer that I had from that neck of the woods that I was really impressed with was Everett - by Hill Farmstead. It is a porter. I really loved that beer when I got a bottle of it.

 

[Mainer]

I've never had Heady Topper. But there's something about the "white whale" beer scene, where people are willing to travel hours and hours, then wait in line for hours and hours, that just rubs me the wrong way. At some point it becomes less about enjoying the beer and more about being part of a scene.
If that's what people like, that's fine for them. They can wait three hours in line to get a beer that's rated a perfect 100. Me? I'd rather drive a mile down the road to another brewery and quietly enjoy a 98.

 

[kombat]

At some point it becomes less about enjoying the beer and more about being part of a scene. If that's what people like, that's fine for them. They can wait three hours in line to get a beer that's rated a perfect 100. Me? I'd rather drive a mile down the road to another brewery and quietly enjoy a 98.

I like both. Admittedly, the "quest" beers are much more about the enjoyment of the journey itself, the people you share the experience it with, the memories you make, and all the little memorable stops along the way. Of course, there are also times when I just want a 6-pack of a stellar IPA that I can readily buy any day of the week at the liquor store around the corner.

 

[Yesfan]

They can wait three hours in line to get a beer that's rated a perfect 100. Me? I'd rather drive a mile down the road to another brewery and quietly enjoy a 98.

No argument here. Another option is to brew the clone. Heady is probably my cousin's favorite, but the first clone he did of it I liked almost as well as the original. A 98 that I didn't have to drive hours out of my way for, stand in line hours on end, and (from a cost perspective) probably a heck of a lot cheaper to make 5 gallons than to buy two cases of it.


98 ftw! :rockin:

 

[Mainer]

I like both. Admittedly, the "quest" beers are much more about the enjoyment of the journey itself, the people you share the experience it with, the memories you make, and all the little memorable stops along the way. Of course, there are also times when I just want a 6-pack of a stellar IPA that I can readily buy any day of the week at the liquor store around the corner.

I must be an old fart. I don't want the adventure. I just want to sit in the back yard drinking with a couple friends.

 

[Mainer]

I must be an old fart. I don't want the adventure. I just want to sit in the back yard drinking with a couple friends.

And even when I *do* want an adventure, I'd rather drink an okay beer at a backwoods brewery nobody's ever heard of (including me) than spend my time tracking down the shiny new toy everybody wants.

 

[b-boy]

I've never had Heady Topper. But there's something about the "white whale" beer scene, where people are willing to travel hours and hours, then wait in line for hours and hours, that just rubs me the wrong way. At some point it becomes less about enjoying the beer and more about being part of a scene.
If that's what people like, that's fine for them. They can wait three hours in line to get a beer that's rated a perfect 100. Me? I'd rather drive a mile down the road to another brewery and quietly enjoy a 98.

I agree with this, but the white whale beer scene can be a lot of fun too. I just went to Dark Lord Day. It was more about beer sharing than the Dark Lord. If it was just about Dark Lord, I probably wouldn't go.

 

[Mainer]

A friend of mine went to the release of Dinner at Maine Beer Company a couple weeks back. He tweeted at 4:30 am that he had arrived. He was the 175th person in line. Who's got time for that?

 

[troglodytes]

I've never had it, but I am pretty sure it's overrated.

If anyone would like to prove me wrong, just send me a bottle so I have a basis to refute your point of view.

Nice strategy Homercidal, I hope you can get your hands on a can.

It all comes down to taste preference when talking about these mythical beers that are impossible to get, but for me Heady is absolutely worth the hype. I only live 3 hours from Alchemist so I can get me hands on it fairly easily, but it will never not be amazing in my eyes. For me what make a beer stand out in this new world of amazing beers is mouthfeel. Heady Topper is one of several beers that have the ability to feel like citrusy velvet on your tongue. Its not overly harsh, its juicy and flavorful, it will always be phenomenal. These top tier breweries have mastered not only recipes, but water chemistry and it is apparent immediately.

I have, however, had others that could match Heady in its qualities, so it is not by any means the one and only NE IPA that deserves accolade. But it is (despite its difficulty in acquiring) probably easier to get your hands on than the others that I have had which match its quality.

Other examples of NE IPA greatness include but are not limited to:

Lawson's - Sip of Sunshine (Probably my favorite beer of all time)
Night Shift - Adams
Hill Farmstead - Excursions
Trillium - Congress Street (good luck with this one, I live 15 minutes from the brewery and have only gotten it once)
Treehouse - Julius

 

[broadbill]

I agree with this, but the white whale beer scene can be a lot of fun too. I just went to Dark Lord Day. It was more about beer sharing than the Dark Lord. If it was just about Dark Lord, I probably wouldn't go.

+1...I'm local to the Portland, ME breweries and will wait in line for Bissell, Foundation, etc. with some friends, but I wouldn't do it alone. Bonus that I can lump in visits to multiple breweries on the same trip. I'm amazed how many Mass people drive up from Boston to wait in the same lines (and its a significant %....upward of 50-60% based on licence plates).

Likewise, I don't have the time to drive to VT for heady, but if I'm in the area, I may consider it.

As for heady's mythical popularity, there is alot to be said for being the First Mover in a trend. There are certainly many other "as good as" beers that are easier to get.

 

[Mainer]

+1...I'm local to the Portland, ME breweries and will wait in line for Bissell, Foundation, etc. with some friends, but I wouldn't do it alone. Bonus that I can lump in visits to multiple breweries on the same trip. I'm amazed how many Mass people drive up from Boston to wait in the same lines (and its a significant %....upward of 50-60% based on licence plates).

Likewise, I don't have the time to drive to VT for heady, but if I'm in the area, I may consider it.

As for heady's mythical popularity, there is alot to be said for being the First Mover in a trend. There are certainly many other "as good as" beers that are easier to get.

I'm also a Portlander. I went to Foundation one time not realizing it was an Epiphany release day and there was a line of about 100 people. Walked LITERALLY around to the back of the same building to Austin Street where there was no line at all for their stellar milk stout.

 

[troglodytes]

I'm also a Portlander. I went to Foundation one time not realizing it was an Epiphany release day and there was a line of about 100 people. Walked LITERALLY around to the back of the same building to Austin Street where there was no line at all for their stellar milk stout.

Oh how could I forget to put Epiphany on my favorites. Amazing stuff.

When it comes to the white whale beer scene I have just come to the realization that living in my area has afforded me the ability to grab "rare" amazing beers that someone out west would have extreme difficulty getting their hands on. It becomes this quest and expectations begin to grow unreasonable.

I remember when I finally got my hands on Pliney the Younger and I was disappointed. Not in the beer, it was fantastic, but that's when I came to the realization that the quest wasn't worth it. I have the ability to go down to Night Shift after work whenever I want whereas someone in TX may never get to have Elevensies or Mainer Weisse. However they may get to enjoy Jester King whenever they want and I'll never get to try it. I'm just happy I live in a world with amazing options and I'm not going to stress about not being able to get my hands on some mythical bottle that took 3 years of searching.

I think others are starting to feel the same way and options are beginning to grow. So to answer the OP, no I don't think Heady will ever be repeated because there won't be another new world class beer being developed at the same time as the craft boom's initial eruption. That eruption has happened. Now there may be regional successes to match Alchemist. I assume the Oklahoma's first "perfect IPA" could regionally become a phenomenon, but I don't think there will be another new common household name made on such a continental scale.

 

[Build]

I'm sure Heady's success will be repeated. It's a great beer, many others are too. We love greatness, we love being a part of it. We didn't need to see The Dead again the next day, but 800 miles later, we did.

 

[broadbill]

I'm also a Portlander. I went to Foundation one time not realizing it was an Epiphany release day and there was a line of about 100 people. Walked LITERALLY around to the back of the same building to Austin Street where there was no line at all for their stellar milk stout.

I agree...Austin Street probably doesn't get the attention they deserve, but OTOH I don't think they could handle any more than they have. They seem to struggle with production in ways the other breweries have solved in various ways.

The local move with Foundation is to go over there at 3-4PM when the crowds have died down and gone home. Stroll right in for a growler fill of Epiphany and some tasters from Bissell. At least you used to be able to do that...

 

[Mainer]

I agree...Austin Street probably doesn't get the attention they deserve, but OTOH I don't think they could handle any more than they have. They seem to struggle with production in ways the other breweries have solved in various ways.

The local move with Foundation is to go over there at 3-4PM when the crowds have died down and gone home. Stroll right in for a growler fill of Epiphany and some tasters from Bissell. At least you used to be able to do that...

A big part of Austin's problem is that they just don't have the space to produce. They're in the smallest bay of that building. Supposedly when Bissell moves out, Austin Street is taking one of their bays for extra production space. That should help. Foundation is taking the rest.

 

[beergolf]

I think the Heady Topper succes was a case of the perfect storm.

Here is a good video of John Kimmich talking about how he got to where they are. He states that he does not really want to grow anymore. He is making a very good living and is happy.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LdfySDN2mF0[/ame]

 

[MaryB]

I think the key is enjoy what is common locally and rare somewhere else! MN has dozens of good breweries to taste from for example! Some good, some bad, some way out there...(Brau Brothers makes a few wtf were they thinking beers to my palate)

 

[oceanic_brew]

Anyone ever read the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell?

I think some of the themes and theories apply to this situation.

 

[muels]

How does one go about getting these 'rare' beers. Only by standing in line at the brewery? I would love to try Heady or Pliny or any of them but I'm not really into the beer scene. Lol. It's not that I'm cheap but I have a hard time spending big money on a bottle of rare beer when I could get an assortment of really good beers. I just don't think I could tell the difference between a good beer and a great beer. Im not that refined.

 

[Mainer]

How does one go about getting these 'rare' beers. Only by standing in line at the brewery? I would love to try Heady or Pliny or any of them but I'm not really into the beer scene. Lol. It's not that I'm cheap but I have a hard time spending big money on a bottle of rare beer when I could get an assortment of really good beers. I just don't think I could tell the difference between a good beer and a great beer. Im not that refined.

For me it's not the money, it's the time. I don't want to spend hours waiting in line at one brewery when I could visit three good ones in the same amount of time.

 

[muels]

I agree on the time as well. I think they are both similar. Why visit 1 when you can visit three....why buy one when you can buy three. Also like I mentioned, I am not sure my taste buds can distinguish good from great. At least not enough to justify the time and money difference. I guess if someone brought it to my house I would pay asking price!

 

[Braufessor]

How does one go about getting these 'rare' beers. Only by standing in line at the brewery? I would love to try Heady or Pliny or any of them but I'm not really into the beer scene. Lol. It's not that I'm cheap but I have a hard time spending big money on a bottle of rare beer when I could get an assortment of really good beers. I just don't think I could tell the difference between a good beer and a great beer. Im not that refined.

Yeah.... I am not into spending all kinds of time in line or driving all over the place. I am kind of lucky in the fact that I am within 10 minutes of Toppling Goliath Brewery and can get super easy access to all of their beer, with no inconvenience at all to myself. Then, I simply trade some beers with others who can basically do the same with other beers that I can't get so easily. I am not into the whole trading for the rarest or hardest to get.... but, I do like to sample a wide range of beers that I can't get myself. I would prefer a bunch of "really good beers" to a single "whale" that is impossible to come by.