Can I use different yeast for bottle priming?

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Kerryon

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Hello!

I've been using SA-04 for primary fermentation. It is very slow and seems to poop out a bit above 1.0, leaving a bit of sweetness, which I like. My problem comes with trying to get the bottle carbonation. I've had it not carbonate on some batches, even though I add a pinch of fresh yeast to the gallon plus 10oz of FAJC for bottling. One thought is that the alcohol content is too high and the yeast won't work anymore? (Lazy yeast!). So thought of maybe priming the bottling gallon with a more robust yeast, like Red Star Cote de Blanc (which I happen to have on hand).

Would adding a different yeast just screw it all up?
 

teddyearp

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I'm quite a n00b, but I have found that temps have a great influence on carbonation, well the whole process. I just finally cold crashed some S-04 cider that only got down to 1.02 from 1.065 and it still took 12 days to get to 28 psi. But my temps were around 65-68. I've read here that if you can get it a bit over 70 then carbonation happens much quicker. Temps in Fahrenheit of course.

p.s. Another trick that I tried and then read about here is to gently upend your bottles every couple of days to redistribute the yeast.
 
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Kerryon

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I'm quite a n00b, but I have found that temps have a great influence on carbonation, well the whole process. I just finally cold crashed some S-04 cider that only got down to 1.02 from 1.065 and it still took 12 days to get to 28 psi. But my temps were around 65-68. I've read here that if you can get it a bit over 70 then carbonation happens much quicker. Temps in Fahrenheit of course.

p.s. Another trick that I tried and then read about here is to gently upend your bottles every couple of days to redistribute the yeast.

I'm a bit of a nooby too.. this is my second year.

The bottles that didn't seem to carbonate were bottled in the summer and the house was around 70-75 degrees. The current batch is sitting in my dining room. Our house temp ranges 59 to 66 degrees this time of year (hey, if you don't have at least two layers of fleece on in our house you can't complain!!), so I wrapped a low voltage "holiday" light string of lights around the box and it keeps it pretty constant at around 68 degrees. If I can get my cat to sit on the box that helps up it couple of degrees ;) So temps seem to be about right. Maybe it's just this particular batch of yeast?

I'l try the swirling of the bottles and see if that helps.

Thanks for your response!!
 
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TheMadKing

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Hello!

I've been using SA-04 for primary fermentation. It is very slow and seems to poop out a bit above 1.0, leaving a bit of sweetness, which I like. My problem comes with trying to get the bottle carbonation. I've had it not carbonate on some batches, even though I add a pinch of fresh yeast to the gallon plus 10oz of FAJC for bottling. One thought is that the alcohol content is too high and the yeast won't work anymore? (Lazy yeast!). So thought of maybe priming the bottling gallon with a more robust yeast, like Red Star Cote de Blanc (which I happen to have on hand).

Would adding a different yeast just screw it all up?

Not at all and that's common practice at the professional level.

I recommend Safeale F2 or a lager yeast. F2 is specifically designed for bottle conditioning
 
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Kerryon

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Not at all and that's common practice at the professional level.

I recommend Safeale F2 or a lager yeast. F2 is specifically designed for bottle conditioning


Thanks for responding. Gave me peace of mind! I went ahead and used the Cote de Rhone since it was what I had on hand. Worked just fine. I'll look into getting some of the F2 next trip to the brew store. I have about 10 gallons that are in the lineup for bottling. Busy Fall in the PNW for fresh pressed apples!! :D
 

teddyearp

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So I came back to this thread because I've been having trouble getting anything to carbonate unless I used EC-1118 for primary. That EC-1118 is a beast. But I had a batch of S-04 that even after two weeks and reaching about 27-28 psi just wouldn't carbonate. I even took it out of the fridge and let it get up to a tiny bit over 30 psi and still nothing much. I now have a batch that I bottled last week that used Nottingham and after over a week, it is struggling to get over 10 psi. This is all at about 67F.

I looked into the F2 and found it only available from Belgium and the shipping was going to be 3-4 times the cost of the packet of yeast so I settled for some Danstar CBC-1 that was mentioned elsewhere as very similar.

So, again, thanks for the info. Was beginning to think that the only yeast that would give me the finished product I wanted was EC-1118.
 

blasterooni

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Hello!

I've been using SA-04 for primary fermentation. It is very slow and seems to poop out a bit above 1.0, leaving a bit of sweetness, which I like. My problem comes with trying to get the bottle carbonation. I've had it not carbonate on some batches, even though I add a pinch of fresh yeast to the gallon plus 10oz of FAJC for bottling. One thought is that the alcohol content is too high and the yeast won't work anymore? (Lazy yeast!). So thought of maybe priming the bottling gallon with a more robust yeast, like Red Star Cote de Blanc (which I happen to have on hand).

Would adding a different yeast just screw it all up?
I use CBC-1 yeast from lallemand for bottle carbing. Works like a charm! Its clean, and floculates 100%, or at least close enough for us home cider makers ;)
 

MarkKF

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So what would happen if I used S-04 for the primary but then used EC-1118 to bottle carb.? The S-04 usually stops at 1.004 but EC-1118 takes it below 1.000

Will it take it supper dry and over carb.?
 
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So what would happen if I used S-04 for the primary but then used EC-1118 to bottle carb.? The S-04 usually stops at 1.004 but EC-1118 takes it below 1.000

Will it take it supper dry and over carb.?
Yes, it's likely that the EC-1118 will finish eating the sugars that the S-04 left, giving you a drier cider and potentially overly carbonated, unless you take those sugars into account when priming.
 

bolus14

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I put my bottles in the room where my boiler is, I would say it stays in the low 70's. I give my bottles 1-2 days then dishwasher pasteurize and they have a "gentle" carbonation to them. I prefer my ciders less bubbly so that works for me, if you like more carbonation then 3-4 days might work, it's a guessing game the first time or two.

This is with S-05.
 

teddyearp

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Yes, it's likely that the EC-1118 will finish eating the sugars that the S-04 left, giving you a drier cider and potentially overly carbonated, unless you take those sugars into account when priming.

I also thought of this, but like the fact that the S-05 and CBC-01 say they drop nicely. EC-1118 is kind of silty.

I put my bottles in the room where my boiler is, I would say it stays in the low 70's. I give my bottles 1-2 days then dishwasher pasteurize and they have a "gentle" carbonation to them. I prefer my ciders less bubbly so that works for me, if you like more carbonation then 3-4 days might work, it's a guessing game the first time or two.

This is with S-05.

Honestly, once summer comes back, I'll probably have no problems carbonating. My retro home isn't as well climate controlled as some so keeping the temps up at 67 and now 69 the furnace runs a lot. Actually 67 is more comfortable for me.
 

dwhite60

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If S-04 isn't carbing your beer, it isn't the S-04.

This is my house yeast. NEVER had anything fail to carb. I've made 8% beers without any problem getting bottles to carbonate. I keep them at 70F to 72F and find they are good in usually two weeks. After a week I give each bottle a quick twist to stir things up. DO NOT SHAKE OR INVERT! You're just asking for oxidation issues.

Not warm enough, crappy caps, bad seal surfaces on the bottle mouths, crappy capper, bad capping technique. or improper priming sugar amounts. These are what you need to be looking at.

All the Best,
D. White
 

blasterooni

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So what would happen if I used S-04 for the primary but then used EC-1118 to bottle carb.? The S-04 usually stops at 1.004 but EC-1118 takes it below 1.000

Will it take it supper dry and over carb.?
Heres my thought(s) on your issue, which i have not done myself exactly, and im sure youve heard all of this before, but i figured id post it anyways; hopefully a more experienced maker will add or correct if needed.

Anyhow, here is what im thinking. Add the requisite priming sugar for your target vol's of CO2, taking into account the residual sugar in the cider, add your chosen yeast (i use CBC-1 only because thats what was recommended, but im sure any other "clean" yeast will work). Once you have that mixed into the vessel from which you will bottle, fill one plactic screw cap bottle, preferably the same size or close to the size of your glass bottles in order to track the progress of carbonation. You can go as far as getting a pressure gauge for the plastic bottle, but i think the "feel" test works pretty well (feeling the hardness of the pressurizing plastic bottle). When the plastic bottle is rock hard, pasteurize it. Although, i would crack one to see how its coming along. This way, you can bottle carb without stripping you cider past the FG for which you intended
Someone gave me a sous vide a month or so ago, which ive read is useful for pasteurizing.

I much prefer bottle carbed cider over forced carbonation, however, I'm leaning heavily toward still cider since the outcome of my ciders are getting better, and find that carbonation, especially forced, seems to mask or convolute the qualities of the cider. But, bottle carbed is ironically perhaps easier to control for me at least, and may add a nice final touch to a cider. Im still learning, and theres a lot more of that to do!
 

teddyearp

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If S-04 isn't carbing your beer, it isn't the S-04.

<snip>I keep them at 70F to 72F and find they are good in usually two weeks. After a week I give each bottle a quick twist to stir things up. DO NOT SHAKE OR INVERT! You're just asking for oxidation issues.

Not warm enough, <snip>
That's my thing. My retro home isn't the best on climate control so my heat was varying between a drafty 65F and 68F. Now that I've turned it up a couple few degrees where it is between 68-70 ish, my bottles are carbonating better.

And I think I failed to mention, I live above 6,000 feet. I am sure that may effect things some.
 

dwhite60

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6,000 feet. That's pretty high.

At that elevation you may end up with less CO2 in solution at the end of fermentation. This contributes to how well and high your pressure builds.

Inside the bottle is a sealed environment. Elevation shouldn't matter to what happens in a capped bottle.

Even at lower temps, within reason, getting your beer to carb is usually just a matter of more time. Trying to carbonate with an ale yeast at 55F probably isn't going to happen.

Happy brewing!

All the Best,
D. White
 
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