Can I save my first stout?

[Rorke]

Hello homebrewers, I’m new to the forum. My previous brewing experience includes brewing a 1 gallon ale from extract, drinking beer, and watching YouTube.

5 weeks ago, I brewed up a batch of imperial stout In a catalyst fermentor (conical bucket with a jar on the bottom).
When I dumped in the wort, I included the hops and all. (Mistake #1)
No OG reading was recorded because I was too cheap to buy a meter. (Mistake #2)
The primary fermentation was very active after 2 dry packets of yeast.
After a week, I pulled a 12oz jar of trub from the bottom because I learned this is normally done this on day one. (Mistake #3).
After a few more days, I pulled more yeast out from the bottom so I could make bread, which was good. (Mistake #4).
At the two week mark, I misinterpreted the slowdown in the airlock as an indication that the beer was ready to be bottled. Now I realize that I took away the yeast. (Mistake #4)
After two weeks in the bottle, the beer was as flat as it was sweet.. My new hydrometer reading was 1.051.

Can I save my first stout?

Last night, I carefully poured each beer back into a CO2 purged bucket. Then I pitched a single packet of dry Champaign yeast. Then I purged the beer/wort with CO2 through the racking port. After 18 hours, I am not seeing anything encouraging.

Should I have oxygenated the beer/wort before re-pitching? Was CO2 purging another mistake?

Thanks.

 

[hotbeer]

The beer you bottled and let set for two weeks was 1.051? And this is with a hydrometer correct?

I'd say it never finished fermenting in the fermenter and you bottled way too early. Or you have no fermentable sugars in it for some reason.

What temps did you keep it in the fermenter and what temps did you keep the bottles at after bottling it?

You've now got it all back in a bucket you intend to let it ferment in again? What temp are you keeping that? 18 hours can be too little time. Be patient.

I think your assumptions about you dumping all the yeast out of the conical are wrong. However I don't have any experience with conical fermenters.

 

[Rorke]

Thanks hotbeer.
I stored the bottles in my closet at about 52°. Probably cold crashed it (Mistake #5)
The beer is now back in the bucket. It is about 67°.
Rorke

 

[GoodTruble]

There are too many unknowns here to identify the problem for sure.

My guess is that your beer either wasn't done fermenting or the yeast was maxed out by the ABV level. -We'll never know. You definitely did not remove all the yeast by removing the trub

But it doesn't change the advice - DO LESS. Just let it sit in the fermenter for two weeks and see what happens. Don't mess with it any further. The champagne yeast is probably going to tear through it and give you a very boozy, thin stout. But you can't unring that bell now.

You probably oxidized your beer by bottling and then putting back into the fermenter - but oh well, can't change that now either.

I would wait two weeks, take a sample, taste it, and consider adding some cold brew coffee to mask any off flavors. Good luck!

 

[Rorke]

GoodTruble,
I will do less for sure. In fact, I will do nothing.
Great suggestion on the cold brew. I am going to look up instructions.
Rorke

 

[hotbeer]

For the ales I brew, I typically keep the fermenters in an ambient temp of 69°F (≈20°C) and the bottled beer I keep at an ambient temp of 74°F (≈23°C) till they carbonate sufficiently. My yeast is lately been US-05.

Some other useful info from you might be what yeast did you use originally and what did you use for priming sugar along with amounts.

Out of the 4 mistakes you listed for yourself, the only one I see as a mistake is not knowing your OG. And even that isn't necessarily a mistake if you are patient and know what to look for. But not having SG readings does make a lot of any help given to you more just random guessing.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

But not having SG readings does make a lot of any help given to you more just random guessing

He did say it was an extract batch. If he knows how much extract he added to the one gallon the OG should be fairly accurately predicted if volume measurements were correct.

 

[hotbeer]

He did say it was an extract batch. If he knows how much extract he added to the one gallon the OG should be fairly accurately predicted if volume measurements were correct.

I've never made an extract batch. The nuances of extract brewing trip me up every time when I reply to posts and don't catch on or remember the fact they are extract.

 

[Rorke]

Thanks for the pointers;

It was a partial extract recipe. I can reach out to the original brewer to get the projected original gravity.
Can’t recall the yeast.

Priming sugar was 4 oz in two cups of water. I forgot that was in there. If the yeast chomps on that first, I don’t know if it will start in on the DME in the mix.

I will write an update in three weeks,

 

[GoodTruble]

The champagne yeast will eat all the sugars. It can usually go up to 15% abv. The extra priming sugar shouldn't make much difference. Though you will need more priming sugar when the time comes to bottle again.

 

[Rorke]

Update:

The stout sat for another 4 weeks before taking a hydrometer measurement today.
The stout went from 1.051 to 1.042.
It tastes boozy. Less syrupy than before. No significant off flavors.

Maybe there was too little oxygen for the yeast. I was pretty careful to not introduce any oxygen.
It did fart a bit in the first week. But then it stopped.

Should I try anything to bring down my final gravity?
Is there any way that 1.042 can be acceptable?

Thank you.

 

[ncbrewer]

As kind of a separate issue, I'll suggest staying with "standard" gravity beers in the future until you get confident in your process. High gravity brewing complicates things.

 

[PCABrewing]

Update:

The stout sat for another 4 weeks before taking a hydrometer measurement today.
The stout went from 1.051 to 1.042.
It tastes boozy. Less syrupy than before. No significant off flavors.

Maybe there was too little oxygen for the yeast. I was pretty careful to not introduce any oxygen.
It did fart a bit in the first week. But then it stopped.

Should I try anything to bring down my final gravity?
Is there any way that 1.042 can be acceptable?

Thank you.

Just out of curiosity, are you sure you took the gravity reading correctly.
It happens sometimes that the test vial isn't deep enough and the hydrometer is actually sitting on the bottom.

I ask because you say it is a little boozy and I would not expect a brew with a gravity of 1.042 to be boozy unless you started way up on the OG like above 1.090. Even then you're only looking at ~8%.

Just a question.

 

[Rorke]

PCA,
Great point. It was floating. I bounced it and gave it a spin. Floating for sure.
I only say it was boozy because it had heat on the exhale.
I did not take an initial reading, because I had never done that and didn’t own a hydrometer.

NCBrewer,
I hear you. My hot girlfriend chose this recipe. Just tryin to save it.

 

[GoodTruble]

Have you tested your hydrometer in plain water to make sure it's calibrated properly? (should read 1.0000 in water).

Champagne yeast should have driven it down well past 1.042. At that point, just boil some hop water and dilute it?

But if it tastes boozy & not syrupy sweet at (allegedly) 1.042, then that is odd & makes me think hydrometer reading is off. Does it taste good?

 

[IslandLizard]

The primary fermentation was very active after 2 dry packets of yeast.

What yeast was that, exactly?
Typically 1 packet (11.5 gram) of yeast is enough for 5 gallons of 1.050 OG wort. You only made 1 gallon.

How much extract did you use in that gallon? Which extract?

Maybe you can post or link to the recipe, or the list (and amounts) of ingredients you used?

 

[GoodTruble]

What yeast was that, exactly?
Typically 1 packet (11.5 gram) of yeast is enough for 5 gallons of 1.050 OG wort. You only made 1 gallon.

How much extract did you use in that gallon? Which extract?

Maybe you can post or link to the recipe, or the list (and amounts) of ingredients you used?

He said he brewed 1 gallon extract before but didn't say this batch was 1 gallon. Since he used a catalyst fermenter, I assumed this was 5 gallons.

 

[day_trippr]

I so want to just say this effort is doomed and the OP should move on...

 

[Jayjay1976]

You may be able to "save" it but I suspect what you really want is to "rescue" it. It is likely beyond rescue. Get serious and move on.

 

[GoodTruble]

If the hydrometer is correct, and after 4 weeks with champagne yeast it's still at 1.042, then I'm stumped & agree move on. ...unless it tastes good anyway. =c)

 

[IslandLizard]

If the hydrometer is correct, and after 4 weeks with champagne yeast it's still at 1.042, then I'm stumped & agree move on. ...unless it tastes good anyway. =c)

Champagne yeast can't ferment maltose (or any higher sugars), that would explain the high FG. That's why I asked for the exact yeast strain he pitched.
If the recipe included a decent load of (simple) sugars or sucrose, the booziness can be explained by that.

I've had some really sweet beers that were also boozy as heck (not mine). It's quite an experience, and not in a bad way.

 

[Miraculix]

The champagne yeast will eat all the sugars. It can usually go up to 15% abv. The extra priming sugar shouldn't make much difference. Though you will need more priming sugar when the time comes to bottle again.

I don't know where this myth is coming from. Champagne yeast is a wine yeast and wine yeast can only digest short chained sugars like glucose, saccharose, fructose (with the odd exception of course...). This means that putting this yeast into a beer where all or almost all of the shorter sugars are already gone (these are eaten by the yeast first) will not change much, there's simply no food left for this type of yeast.

Edit: quite a bunch of the wine yeasts are actually kill yeasts which means once pitched, they will destroy every other yeast that is not a kill yeast itself. That could be problematic down the line at some point.

 

[jerrylotto]

My goto yeast for Imperial Stout is Fermentis Safale S05 which has taken me up to 12-13% ABV on occasion. If you are brewing wine, use a wine yeast but if you are brewing beer - stick with something made for the task.

 

[Miraculix]

My goto yeast for Imperial Stout is Fermentis Safale S05 which has taken me up to 12-13% ABV on occasion. If you are brewing wine, use a wine yeast but if you are brewing beer - stick with something made for the task.

It makes sense to use a wine yeast for carbonation when the original yeast is maybe already almost at its alcohol tolerance. CBC 1 is such a yeast which is actually sold for exactly that purpose, it has a very high alcohol tolerance and will only eat the carbonation sugar, none of the other residual longer sugars. But for the actual fermentation of beer, I agree with you. Unless you want to try something weired (which I of course would fully understand ), it makes sense to stick to beer yeasts.

 

[GoodTruble]

Sorry, I thought champagne yeast would still ferment. The confusion comes from it being suggested as a way to finish and carbonate beer where the original yeast has maxed out. [-and articles like this ..... Why Brewers Are Embracing Champagne Yeast | Wine Enthusiast Magazine ].

OP already said he didn't know what the original yeast was. Nor the OG. But it did go through a primary fermentation. So if the original yeast maxed out, can he still just pitch US-05 or Notty and just see if it takes? Or will the champagne yeast now prevent other yeast from working?

If it still tastes okay, I wouldn't dump it yet if adding another yeast may still work or if 1.04 beer can still be made drinkable (I've never tried it, but I've had sweet beers that were still good) - but I also haven't dumped one yet and struggled through a couple of 'meh' batches (that got better with time).

 

[william.roy.c]

If you can’t rescue the beer, maybe try it as a marinade for a steak. Might be able to rescue the relationship with the hot girlfriend!

 

[Rorke]

Thank you all for the education! I am learning more from this failure than from my lucky successes.

So, it looks like my 5 gallon batch should have sat longer, and at a higher temperature, and I should have not pulled the yeast (for future use) so early.

When I bottled prematurely, I did put in a normal amount of priming sugar. But storing it at too low of a temperature right away cold crashed it. But at least they didn’t explode.

Carefully, I dumped each bottle back in the bucket. Then I pitched the Champaign yeast. It appears that the Champaign yeast produced the seemingly high alcohol level. However, the Champaign yeast dominated over any remaining original yeast, which would have been my only hope at converting the mash sugars.

So, what do you all think about this plan?
I intend to add some priming sugar and bottle once again. Should I use less than the usual amount of priming sugar?
The bottles will get stored in a Rubbermaid tub because I have a hunch they could explode.
In 6 months, I will put on safety goggles and open one outside.
Then I will drink 3 of them if possible and prepare myself for the worst hangover of my life.

Thoughts?

 

[GoodTruble]

Two easy questions:

Does the hyrdometer register 1.0000 in water?

Does the beer taste good?

 

[marc1]

Thank you all for the education! I am learning more from this failure than from my lucky successes.

So, it looks like my 5 gallon batch should have sat longer, and at a higher temperature, and I should have not pulled the yeast (for future use) so early.

When I bottled prematurely, I did put in a normal amount of priming sugar. But storing it at too low of a temperature right away cold crashed it. But at least they didn’t explode.

Carefully, I dumped each bottle back in the bucket. Then I pitched the Champaign yeast. It appears that the Champaign yeast produced the seemingly high alcohol level. However, the Champaign yeast dominated over any remaining original yeast, which would have been my only hope at converting the mash sugars.

So, what do you all think about this plan?
I intend to add some priming sugar and bottle once again. Should I use less than the usual amount of priming sugar?
The bottles will get stored in a Rubbermaid tub because I have a hunch they could explode.
In 6 months, I will put on safety goggles and open one outside.
Then I will drink 3 of them if possible and prepare myself for the worst hangover of my life.

Thoughts?

About what ABV should you have gotten from the recipe?

What with the incomplete fermentation, the dumping back out of the bottles, and the champagne yeast, I'd probably dump it.

But if you wanted to go full crazy, add some glucoamylase to the fermenter. It will convert all the complex sugars to simple ones that the champagne yeast can eat. Let it chew through that, then bottle. That'll get you some rocket fuel

 

[Rorke]

Good Trub,
Hydrometer has been rechecked. It is accurate.
Yes, it does taste pretty good at room tempo and flat.
Thanks

 

[marc1]

Good Trub,
Hydrometer has been rechecked. It is accurate.
Yes, it does taste pretty good at room tempo and flat.
Thanks

If you like how it tastes, make sure it's done fermenting and bottle it up to try.

 

[Miraculix]

You can always just brew a second beer and blend and you can also dilute with water if the abv is too high and the beer is too thick.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

My hot girlfriend chose this recipe.

Gotta post pics for us to determine.
The GF not the recipe.

 

[GoodTruble]

i know you're probably sick of dealing with it (and I've already proven my ignorance in this thread), but if it tastes good, I wouldn't dump it.

I would direct pitch one packet of US-05 or Notty. Wait 72 hours. If it doesn't start to ferment again, then I think you can go ahead and bottle (with all the precautions you listed) (and maybe get the GF a small gift for tolerating this foolishness).

Good luck.

 

[marc1]

i know you're probably sick of dealing with it (and I've already proven my ignorance in this thread), but if it tastes good, I wouldn't dump it.

I would direct pitch one packet of US-05 or Notty. Wait 72 hours. If it doesn't start to ferment again, then I think you can go ahead and bottle (with all the precautions you listed) (and maybe get the GF a small gift for tolerating this foolishness).

Good luck.

The Champagne yeast likely has competitive factor (EC-1118 does) that will kill other yeasts. I don't think beer yeast has resistance to it, so adding any beer yeast at this point is useless. Look up the wine yeast you added and check for it. If it has it, don't waste money/time on adding beer yeast.

 

[GoodTruble]

Also, if you do bottle again, I suggest bottling 1-2 in plastic bottles. It makes it easier to monitor the carbonation level just by feeling the bottle.

 

[jerrylotto]

I hope this turns out to be a drinkable beer but it would be a disaster if it was great, because you are NEVER going to be able to repeat this process!

 

[Velnerj]

It's definitely possible to have a fg at 1.042. If your starting gravity is 1.120 an fg of 1.042 is pretty good attenuation.

The fact that it tastes boozy tells me that the og was pretty high (prolly not 1.120 high tho). After 4 weeks at room temp I'd say it's done.

Bottle it up, take precautions and find out.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Also, if you do bottle again, I suggest bottling 1-2 in plastic bottles. It makes it easier to monitor the carbonation level just by feeling the bottle.

Hmm, feel this and see if it is hard.

I know, . . . I had to go there, lol.