can doughballs tell you anything?

[johngaltsmotor]

Okay, I've only got a couple of dozen batches under my belt (literally... good home brew is calorie dense), and I've got a question:
Can doughballs ever be beneficial (in diagnosing problems)?
I've NEVER had a doughball in all of my AG brews, not even a small one. I typically mash at 1.2-1.3qt/lb and have the LHBS crush my grains.

I'm wondering if this complete lack of doughballs is a result of the LHBS crush being too coarse (no fine flour bits to form doughballs around grain)?
I know it's not a great crush as I'm consistently 67% brewhouse.

 

[roastquake]

Not having doughballs simply means that you mashed in properly, stirring and mixing. I know from experience that even course crushed grain can form doughballs. As for the efficiency part, my suggestion is to get a mill and adjust your crush yourself. If you ask the HBS to do it, they may go too fine with it. Just from reading HBT, it seems that crush is the most common cause of low efficiency, so start with a finer crush, and if that doesn't fix it, then look at other variables like sparging technique

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

Are you using mostly domestic 2-row? I never have a problem with dough balls with domestic malt. Now, imported malts are a completely different subject. British Pearl malt produces dough balls like no other malt that I have used. However, it is also produces a lot of extract per pound of grain.

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

Just from reading HBT, it seems that crush is the most common cause of low efficiency, so start with a finer crush, and if that doesn't fix it, then look at other variables like sparging technique

A fine crush works well when batch sparging. However, it can lower extraction rate when continuous sparging due to compaction and channeling. I have found the optimum roller gap on a two-roller mill is around 1mm (0.040") when continuous sparging. The speed at which one runs one's mill is as critical as roller spacing. A mill should be operated at under 300 RPM in order to maximize crush quality.

 

[PHDrunk]

This is a really interesting question that I've had some experience with myself. I recently have taken "crush til you're scared" mantra to heart. I crush at my LHBS but I've been running the grains through the mill multiple times. I've noticed the following changes: (1) I get dough balls during the mash in, which I had never seen before, (2) my efficiency has gone up a bit, (3) the volume of my first runnings is down -- pointing to increased absorption.

To address the points above, I agree that a proper mash-in will ensure that all dough balls are broken up prior to sealing the tun for conversion. My experience, and what I assume the OP is referring to as well, is that prior to crushing finer, there were never any dough balls at any point during my mash-ins. It seems logically consistent to me that the absence of dough balls might point to a non-ideal crush.


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[govner1]

Not having doughballs simply means that you mashed in properly, stirring and mixing. I know from experience that even course crushed grain can form doughballs. As for the efficiency part, my suggestion is to get a mill and adjust your crush yourself. If you ask the HBS to do it, they may go too fine with it. Just from reading HBT, it seems that crush is the most common cause of low efficiency, so start with a finer crush, and if that doesn't fix it, then look at other variables like sparging technique

^^^^this is your answer! If you're getting doughballs you're not mashing in properly. Add you grains to your mash in water slowly as you stir or in increments. Stir all the way down to the bottom of you MLT to make sure no doughballs have formed and sunken. Break them up as needed.


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[Yooper]

Are you using mostly domestic 2-row? I never have a problem with dough balls with domestic malt. Now, imported malts are a completely different subject. British Pearl malt produces dough balls like no other malt that I have used. However, it is also produces a lot of extract per pound of grain.

I totally agree!

No doughballs at all in most of my beers. But when I use Crisp maris otter malt, no matter the crush, it's doughball city! That stuff wants to clump together like nobody's business. I stir, stir, stir, at dough-in, but it takes a mash paddle and a spoon afterwards to break up all of those blasted doughballs.

 

[johngaltsmotor]

But when I mash-in it's nothing detailed. Pour the heated water into the tun, dump in 2 pitchers of grain (easiest way to scoop from brown paper bag), stir a couple of revolutions, dump in the rest of the bag, stir for ~10-15sec.

I've heard people say for their crush "go finer until you get a stuck sparge, then dial it back a bit." I didn't know if doughballs could be a similar indicator. (I'll honestly admit that I'm surprised that the type of grain is a big factor too...?)

I just got to wondering because I saw a thread where people debated adding water to grain or grain to water. With how lackadaisical I am about mash-in I figured maybe I was missing an obvious clue.

 

[jfk69]

I don't know if doughballs can tell you anything, but dingleberries certainly do...

 

[glick]

A lack of dough balls means that your doing it right!

 

[rlmiller10]

I know it's not a great crush as I'm consistently 67% brewhouse.

Don't confuse brewhouse and mash efficiency. You could get 100% mash efficiency and if you have leaks, spills or leave a lot of wort in your kettle to avoid turb in the fermenter your brewhouse efficiency will go down. So the two numbers tell very different things even though mash efficiency does contribute to brewhouse efficiency.