Can butterfly valves be used to control pump output?

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jwhazel

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To be more concise, is this a dumb thing to do for mash recirc and whirpool of 5gal batches? I plan to T the output so I have two valves available. The ease of cleaning would be nice, but I'm not sure if I would run into flow control issues.

Background: I got a killer deal on a bunch of used equipment and they threw in a chugger TC pump with a ton of 1.5" butterfly trigger handles. While it seems like overkill and not something I would seek out if buying new, the equipment is here in front of me (I just need to buy a T piece to complete it). If it's not wise to do, then I'll need to also track down some TC ball valves. TIA for any sage advice.
 
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day_trippr

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I don't think any actual harm could result, but I suspect there won't be much in the way of "precision" using butterfly valves. I'd go a different way...

Cheers!
 

bruce_the_loon

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The butterfly flap on my 1.5" TC valve is quite thick, so it won't deform under holding back some pressure. The only issue is that the locking positions on the triggers are fairly widely spaced and if the valve moves too freely when unlocked, the back pressure might force the valve more open if your optimal position isn't in one of the locking positions. My one is a wide-bore valve (1 3/8") and your usable flow control region might be in the last couple of locking positions. A narrower bore valve would be better suited, whether it is butterfly or ball valve.

There isn't any danger to the valves or the pump to test, so it might be worth doing a water-only test and see if you have sufficient control.
 

Broken Crow

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If you're aim is to go all TC, just bite the bullet and buy a TC ball valve. If you already have NPT parts around, like a lot of us do, you could just use an NPT ball valve with an adapter 1.5 TC x 1/2'' Male NPT THREADS Adapter
One of my pumps has a ball valve for flow control, followed by a 3-way valve. They're available in TC or NPT, but that does start to add costs up.
 
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jwhazel

jwhazel

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Appreciate the feedback all. Certainly not what I wanted to hear, but I'm glad I asked.

I contemplated doing a water test with one, but suspected it may be tough to properly gauge without having an actual mash going. I also wasn't sure if feathering between the two at the same time could help (can't test till I get a T). But I may just sell this extra stuff and keep my eyes out for a Riptide head I can throw on my old March pump.
 

Broken Crow

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I really don't wanna push 'my way', so I'll just toss in this for consideration: The ease of disassembly and cleaning of TC vs. getting out the wrenches. If you want to stick with NPT fittings, a couple adapters is cheaper. ....I'm still occasionally kicking myself for getting a Riptide with NPT instead of TC for just that reason.
:mug:
 

Jag75

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For what its worth I use the butterfly valve to slow down the flow to the pump. It's a 3bbl Stout eRims set up. It takes some fine adjustments but you can get it to work. Never tried after the pump.
 

doug293cz

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It doesn't fix the "I already have them" thing but the Blichmann linear flow valves with TC ports are a pretty good compromise. Similar adjustability to ball valves with the sanitary nature of TC.
I thought the selling point of the Blichmann linear flow valves was that they have better throttling adjustaibility than simple ball valves. Is this not actually the case?

Brew on :mug:
 
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jwhazel

jwhazel

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For what its worth I use the butterfly valve to slow down the flow to the pump. It's a 3bbl Stout eRims set up. It takes some fine adjustments but you can get it to work. Never tried after the pump.
Not sure if your 3bbl volume comes into play here (or perhaps you have a fancier pump?) but typically you're not supposed to control flow to the inlet on non-self priming pumps.
 

Jag75

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Not sure if your 3bbl volume comes into play here (or perhaps you have a fancier pump?) but typically you're not supposed to control flow to the inlet on non-self priming pumps.

I believe it's a chugger . I think you can use butterfly valves on the outflow . As for the inlet side I never thought about that causing an issue. We haven't had an issue yet . I'll probably switch it to the outflow side just to be safe .
 

Yesfan

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Another thought is the EZ clean ball valves. Bobby M carries them. Instead of the body screwing together like a traditional 2pc valve, it uses a tri-clamp. I love mine.

Of course, you already have the butterfly valves, so I'd use them and see what your results are first.
 

Jag75

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Here's info I found on chugger pumps and butterfly valves. It says they recommend butterfly valves on outflow side.
 

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day_trippr

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You can certainly use a butterfly valve on the output (you should never restrict the input to a mag pump) but as has been mentioned there is a distinct lack of fine control vs other valve styles. I don't think any industry would recommend using a butterfly valve if fine flow rate control is desired...

Cheers!
 

Bobby_M

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I thought the selling point of the Blichmann linear flow valves was that they have better throttling adjustaibility than simple ball valves. Is this not actually the case?

Brew on :mug:
I probably should have worded my post better. The OP said they had butterfly valves already and I meant that butterfly valves are not the right tool for the job. The Blichmann Linear valves do work well which is why I said it was a good compromise. It's about the same adjustability as a ball valve (though they claim something more granular and MAYBE it's a little better), but more importantly it keeps the more sanitary nature of a butterfly.
 

Bobby_M

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Here's info I found on chugger pumps and butterfly valves. It says they recommend butterfly valves on outflow side.

The wording is unnecessarily precise about a butterfly valve. They just mean they recommend "a valve" for throttling and the uninformed conclusion there is that a TC port uses a butterfly valve. Chugger folks are not brewers, they are pump manufacturers. It only takes 60 seconds of fiddling with a butterfly on a pump output to realize it's either off or a fire hose.
 

sibelman

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I thought the selling point of the Blichmann linear flow valves was that they have better throttling adjustaibility than simple ball valves. Is this not actually the case?

Brew on :mug:
My experience is that the Blichmann "linear flow" valve is way easier to clean than a 3-part ball valve, but that its throttling is not significantly easier to tune/adjust than a ball valve. I infer that small bits of grain can bollix flow in either valve, requiring some fiddling.

After waiting too long to disassemble a 3-part valve, which led to seemingly permanent discoloration on the PTFE rings, I'm really loving the Blichmann's easy cleaning. It's also a nice, hefty design. I hope replacement o-rings will be straightforward when that time comes.
 

Bobby_M

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For what its worth I use the butterfly valve to slow down the flow to the pump. It's a 3bbl Stout eRims set up. It takes some fine adjustments but you can get it to work. Never tried after the pump.

Technically the suction side of the pump should not be restricted. It make cavitation much more likely.
 

Jag75

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Technically the suction side of the pump should not be restricted. It make cavitation much more likely.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but the valve is on the MT and then the hose connects to that . Hose is probably 5-6ft . The hose is connected to the pump.

The next brew I plan on adding a valve on the outflow side before the rims and leave the valve on the MT fully open.
 

McMullan

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I use Blichmann linear flow valves on my system. I think they offer more control than ball valves, once you get used to them. The more you want to restrict the flow the less you start to turn the valve. Not exactly 'linear' as such. It's really not difficult to get a wide range of precise control from full flow to dribble. One of the benefits of a RipTide pump is it has an inbuilt linear flow valve. I use a linear flow valve to restrict the outflow from an MP-15RM pump for recirculating fermenting wort.

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I find them very easy to clean therefore pretty sanitary. More so than some ball valves.
 

sibelman

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I use a linear flow valve to restrict the outflow from an MP-15RM pump for recirculating fermenting wort.

I find them very easy to clean therefore pretty sanitary. More so than some ball valves.
Mine regulates lauter rate into the kettle. Works pretty well. What I really want is a reasonably cheap flow meter that works at mash-out temp and reads under 1 lpm.
 

Mad Mann

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Jumping on this thread, does anyone know of good electronic solenoid T vales to use?
 

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