Can a freshly cleaned part be called sanitized?

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kiwipen

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If you clean something with pbw or a similar product and rinse with hot clean water, can you consider the part to be sanitized for a short time?

I know it's quick to sanitize with Starsan or alcohol. All I'm wondering is if pbw will clean off all bacteria, yeast and other problematic stuff.
 

bracconiere

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TemperatureTimePasteurization Type
63ºC (145ºF)*30 minutesVat Pasteurization
72ºC (161ºF)*15 secondsHigh temperature short time Pasteurization (HTST)
89ºC (191ºF)1.0 secondHigher-Heat Shorter Time (HHST)
90ºC (194ºF)0.5 secondsHigher-Heat Shorter Time (HHST)
94ºC (201ºF)0.1 secondsHigher-Heat Shorter Time (HHST)
96ºC (204ºF)0.05 secondsHigher-Heat Shorter Time (HHST)
100ºC (212ºF)0.01secondsHigher-Heat Shorter Time (HHST)
138ºC (280ºF)2.0 secondsUltra Pasteurization (UP)


from


for the record. i pasturize my fermenter at ~170f for about 15-30 minutes. and don't use starsan....works for my fermenter, haven't really figured a way to do it with my kegs yet...work in progress!
 

RufusBrewer

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PBW is not considered a sanitizer. It will remove dirt and particles from a surface. Dirt and particulates that can harbor microbes. But the surface could retain various microbes and such. You would need to follow up with a product designed to kill little nasties.

I would expect anything exposed to Star San or the like would make for a sanitized area. Assuming you used the product at appropriate strength and enough contact time.
 

BigEd

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If you clean something with pbw or a similar product and rinse with hot clean water, can you consider the part to be sanitized for a short time?

No. Cleaners clean and sanitizers sanitize. If you want to roll the dice and expose your wort or beer to such an environment it might be OK but why take the risk?


I know it's quick to sanitize with Starsan or alcohol.

Alcohol is not nearly as effective as Star-San, Iodophor, or other product specifically designed for sanitizing surfaces/equipment in food plants, breweries, and dairies. Star-San or Iodophor are easy to use, fully effective in a matter of minutes, no risnse, and easily available from any homebrew supply store. Why throw away the time, money, and effort put into a batch of beer for a couple of minutes taken to properly sanitize.
 

LarMoeCur

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Bacteria do have a hot water survivability rating. Some are microorganisms are more resistant then others. My worry would be the particulate matter that is always floating around in PWB. Does it have insulating properties? Now, the PBW has cooled what has grown in that over night soak. And then there is the rinse water and PBW must be rinsed off. It most likely will have some unwanted microorganism in it. I've always just kept a spray jug of Starsan handy. Why risk a contamination when a quick mist of Starsan will increase your odds by 10 fold.
 

bracconiere

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damn, i just got an idea for my kegs.....a pot on my electric hot plae with a ball valve, high temp pump....get one of those keg washers....bring the pot to a boil and spray it in for a few seconds! 🤔 (just maybe might work!)
 

bracconiere

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PVC pipe can handle boil water, right? so if i make the sprayie thing out of pvc drop it in the pot...have the water ricirculating in the pot at a boil....or something...right on a new project! :mug:
 

RufusBrewer

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Some PVC (and other like materials) is rated for high temps some PVC is not. If you do not know for sure about a specific peice or device, I advise you assume it is not. Look for an appropriate substitute.
 

MaxStout

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The white drain pipe type PVC won't handle boiling temps. I made a hops spider with a piece of it as the hub and it started to deform from the heat. And it wasn't even in the boil, just above it.

Ended up remaking the spider using a stainless sink drain collar for the hub.
 

PCABrewing

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I know it's quick to sanitize with Starsan or alcohol.

Be aware that if using alcohol it needs to be the right concentration.
100% is not effective.

If you notice that the concentration of alcohol in hand sanitizers is ~70%.
There is a reason for that other than being cheap or protection from drying your skin.
Microbes/cells react to different percentages differently. Too high percentage causes the cellular wall to firm-up and prevents the alcohol from getting into the cell where it damages the cell and kills it.
Around 70% (67 - 75%) allows the cell to absorb some alcohol and do its magic.

So the temptation to use the strongest is not the best way.
 

hopjuice_71

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Well, think about this. Cleaners like PBW dissolve oils and other deposits, and generally RIP organic materials off surfaces like nobody's business. Do you really think that microbes are going to survive this? Maybe some spores, but not much else.. ..but spores will survive starsan etc as well. Soap is an excellent general cleaner, but also one of the best generally available santizers we have. The issue with things like PBW and soap is that they NEED to be rinsed.. ..with water that is often not completely "sanitary." If you cleaned with PBW then rinsed with boiled water this would totally work. Oh, and this is also why you can have all-in-one cleaners/sanitizers.
 

tracer bullet

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I think we all forgot to ask what's being cleaned.

Cleaning and sanitizing are definitely not the same thing. BUT - what equipment we are talking about gauges whether we care or not.

Fermenter - sanitize right before use. Boil kettle - clean is good enough.
 

hopjuice_71

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Isn't there a "not" missing after "can"? ^
Otherwise, I agree with what you said.

Yes, after reading my post I can see how I caused this confusion. By default, anything that is good at cleaning a surface should also leave it largely sanitized. My understanding is that there are some oxygen based cleansers that are no rinse. These should also function just fine as sanitizers.
 

bracconiere

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Yes, after reading my post I can see how I caused this confusion. By default, anything that is good at cleaning a surface should also leave it largely sanitized. My understanding is that there are some oxygen based cleansers that are no rinse. These should also function just fine as sanitizers.


so something like this?

 

tracer bullet

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One-Step.


" Note: while technically a cleanser, One Step does have some sanitizing properties through the release of hydrogen peroxide. It can be used in no-rinse applications in most home brewing tasks. "
 

marc1

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In the US, sanitizers and disinfectants are regulated by the EPA. There is a registration/ approval process to get products available for sale with those labels, which have specific legal definitions.
The makers of One step seem to have decided that it is not worth the effort and expense to get it approved, if it could be.
 

Bassman2003

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Both cleaning and sanitizing need to be done but imho, cleaning is more important in end. If you have a really clean surface like SS or glass there is not much for anything to hang around or cling to. Good cleaning makes the sanitizer's job a lot easier.
 

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