Calling all those in the NHC Today

[Oleson M.D.]

I chatted with one judge at Homebrew Con. She said there was a lot of pressure just to eliminate beers from each round and not enough time to give quality feedback. I have heard rumblings that this feeling is not isolated to this one judge.

After getting comment sheets, I believe this is the case. There was no helpful input / feedback regarding my entries.
Looking at my results, the initial thought was the judges were just trying to get it over with, as quick as possible.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

National Homebrew Competition​

Some related discussion over in AHA forums (link)

eta: If the goal is to get quality feedback at next years competition, consider putting a proposal together and submitting it to the competition. I doubt that commenting here on the lack of feedback from the 2022 competition is going to change much. But, as always, YMMV.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

National Homebrew Competition​

Some related discussion over in AHA forums (link)

View attachment 775177

It was obvious the judges were pressured, in order to go through the beers as quickly as possible.
The scribbling on my feedback sheets was barely legible.

Yes, they were rushed.

 

[Dgallo]

It was obvious the judges were pressured, in order to go through the beers as quickly as possible.
The scribbling on my feedback sheets was barely legible.

Yes, they were rushed.

I’m pretty sure @BrewnWKopperKat was just letting you know that other people feel the same as you

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It was obvious the judges were pressured, in order to go through the beers as quickly as possible.
The scribbling on my feedback sheets was barely legible.

Yes, they were rushed.

Yet another thing that stewards, in the late 2010s, were aware of.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I’m pretty sure @BrewnWKopperKat was just letting you know that other people feel the same as you

And suggesting that those interested 'take it to the next level and never look back'. Put together a proposal for that makes the competition more valuable to those interested in the changes.

 

[kingmatt]

I've always known NHC was more about competing than feedback, and I am 100% OK with that. That said, the drastic increase in entry fees for the same product is a little shady IMO. My last brewing goal was to medal at NHC but I may need to let that go.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I was under the impression that all competitions were about competing, and feedback. Constructive criticism to help improve our beers and brewing technique.

I guess I was wrong.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Going forward, if you are going to enter a competition:

check the competition web site to find out what type of feedback (if any) you are going to get​

Competitions are back. The competitions I follow are taking fewer entries. The feedback being offered is generally at their web site (or could be obtained by communicating with them in advance).

---

eta: FWIW, competition entry pricing is being discussed in the topic that I mentioned in #42 (link).

 

[BrewMan13]

Neither of mine advanced past the first round. Had high hopes for the schwarzbier, since it did great in a smaller comp. Don't agree with a lot of the comments, but oh well. Ironically, a couple of the subtle things I changed based on the other competition comments, were dinged at NHC. Ie, first comp said some late addition hops would be good, so I moved some of the 20 to 5; NHC judges said it was too hoppy...

 

[505-Brewer]

It’s pretty clear last 2 years have been judged in a best of show style. > 2900 entries w 85 judges this year - thanks to them. Thats a lot to handle. I certainly wouldn’t expect a score. Scores are relative and largely meaningless IMO anyway. Of course scores are typically part of bjcp so ..........

Funny enough the minimal comments for both my medalling and non medaling beers were pretty accurate this year.

I’d like to know if the final category round judging was with a new set of judges. Hate to have bias from first rounds affect the final category. Best guess - it was a downselect w some of the same judges.

Also where your beer lands in a flight can have a result on how its perceived and judged. So always take that into account.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

In other words, if you are Tail End Charlie, you are SOL.

 

[505-Brewer]

Possibly. Brew on the high end of style. Could be be ok. But there is an element of luck. In local comps skill will usually get you to BOS. After that a lot of factors come into play. NHC is BOS ramped up several times. My 2 cents.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I ended up with a silver for an American Lager, the International Lager went 3/3, my Czech Pils went 2/3 and my German Pils bombed 1/3.

NHC is a different animal and I'm not looking for feedback. I enter for the fun of it and the challenge that comes with it. This competition brings out the best brewers, so normally those beers would have cleaned up at a smaller comp, but at NHC, I was lucky to get one.

One comment on feed back; If you have 5 different judges that rated your one beer, without talking to each other about it, you would get the impression that they had 5 different beers. Most times the feed back is a tad confusing and often just worthless. You have to know the styles and the brewing process yourself without relying on someone to show you the way. You should be able to know the flaws prior to sending it in and see if the judges notice.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I ended up with a silver for an American Lager, the International Lager went 3/3, my Czech Pils went 2/3 and my German Pils bombed 1/3.

NHC is a different animal and I'm not looking for feedback. I enter for the fun of it and the challenge that comes with it. This competition brings out the best brewers, so normally those beers would have cleaned up at a smaller comp, but at NHC, I was lucky to get one.

One comment on feed back; If you have 5 different judges that rated your one beer, without talking to each other about it, you would get the impression that they had 5 different beers. Most times the feed back is a tad confusing and often just worthless. You have to know the styles and the brewing process yourself without relying on someone to show you the way. You should be able to know the flaws prior to sending it in and see if the judges notice.

You are correct. Probably every brewer that participated knows how to brew great beer, and knows the flaws.

In our case we had a former pro brewer and experienced beer judge sample our beers, to insure that we were submitting beers that were truly competition worthy. Had he detected any flaws, they would not have been sent.

I just question the rush for the judges to eliminate the beers, and move on to the next round. When a brewer spends that much money time and effort, the judging should do likewise.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I ended up with a silver for an American Lager, the International Lager went 3/3, my Czech Pils went 2/3 and my German Pils bombed 1/3.

Congrats!!! Looks like you are new to HBT. Hope you stick around and share some of your "secrets"!

 

[Oleson M.D.]

We can’t help but wonder how different the results would have been if the judges were not so rushed, to quickly eliminate beers? And proceed to the next round?
This certainly casts a shadow on the entire event.

 

[505-Brewer]

We can’t help but wonder how different the results would have been if the judges were not so rushed, to quickly eliminate beers? And proceed to the next round?
This certainly casts a shadow on the entire event.

Likely little difference. Its pretty clear in a flight of beers which beers stand out. I imagine there was some deliberation in the later rounds like in a true BOS. Just because they didnt write it down doesnt mean they thought less about it.

One of my beers (NZ pils) feedback was - Very well made pilsner but the hops just didnt stand out as much as the others. Pretty clear and succinct info. Another. Beer is a little one dimensional and the fruit dominates the beer. Got that one twice. Both accurate statements.

(What specifically on comments did you receive?)

Not sure what else i need. I do laugh when they try to tell you how you improve making the beer when they have no idea of your process. Always thought that part of bjcp was bogus.

Alas. If I don’t volunteer and actually help do the judging im only going to complain so loudly and for so long........

After all its only beer and money and i can make more of both.

 

[505-Brewer]

I ended up with a silver for an American Lager, the International Lager went 3/3, my Czech Pils went 2/3 and my German Pils bombed 1/3.

NHC is a different animal and I'm not looking for feedback. I enter for the fun of it and the challenge that comes with it. This competition brings out the best brewers, so normally those beers would have cleaned up at a smaller comp, but at NHC, I was lucky to get one.

One comment on feed back; If you have 5 different judges that rated your one beer, without talking to each other about it, you would get the impression that they had 5 different beers. Most times the feed back is a tad confusing and often just worthless. You have to know the styles and the brewing process yourself without relying on someone to show you the way. You should be able to know the flaws prior to sending it in and see if the judges notice.

This is where a calibration beer round w all judges discussing can be so helpful to get them “ on the same page” Happens at local competitions...sometimes.

And congrats on the medal!!

 

[Spartan1979]

This is where a calibration beer round w all judges discussing can be so helpful to get them “ on the same page” Happens at local competitions...sometimes.

And congrats on the medal!!

I've never been a fan of calibration beers. The only person in the room I need to calibrate with is the other judge sitting across from me. That's pretty much happens on the first beer.

 

[505-Brewer]

I've never been a fan of calibration beers. The only person in the room I need to calibrate with is the other judge sitting across from me. That's pretty much happens on the first beer.

Sure. Can certainly calibrate w the first beer in the flight. Main point is judges sync up. Agreed.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

So...we had a round table beer review yesterday. The taste panel was made up of experienced brewers (3), and experienced beer judges (2), and one professional brewer.

While I was there as a participant, my involvement was as a neutral bystander, just there to observe. It is difficult to judge your own beer is what many tell me!

We had bottled an extra beer of each entry, just for this purpose.

What was most impressive was the carbonation was spot on. This is always a big concern when bottling beer.

At this stage, it makes no difference as we cannot correct any errors made at the NHC.

Both of the experienced beer judges (one of which was a professional brewer) disagreed on most counts with the results from the NHC.

There was only one comment that was agreed with, my Helles being slightly bitter. My example had a moderate hop bitterness, which supports the malty palate. But this is right out of the BJCP Style Guide.

The conclusion was the NHC judges, being pressured to expedite the process, were simply hastily eliminating beers.

Certainly this was the case at the NHC. Many otherwise quality beers were overlooked in the quest for meeting time constraints.

As such, we will never enter this comp again. This is not a complaint on my part, simply a statement of fact based on independent feedback yesterday.

On a related side note, how many of those judges have been to North Germany, to sample the classic Pils, or to Bavaria, to have a Munich Helles?