Calling Aj or Martin

[Csuho]

Here is my water report from Ward Labs
pH 7.2
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 277
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.46
Cations / Anions, me/L 4.2 / 3.9

ppm
Sodium, Na 4
Potassium, K 3
Calcium, Ca 66
Magnesium, Mg 7
Total Hardness, CaCO3 194
Nitrate, NO3-N 4.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 11
Chloride, Cl 10
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 162
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 133

First off I mostly brew very pale beers cream ales, belgian pale ale, IPA, golden strongs everything is pretty much under 6 srm very rarely do I do anything over that and if I do its from a dark candy syrup addition not malt. I have taken over mashing like Gordon Strong does with only mashing what needs to be mashed. So now on to the couple questions I have. Can I preboil to drop out the hardness some or am I screwed there? Is it worth messing with at all or just go with RO water?

I have a pH meter so I can check that.

Thanks for any help anyone can give me on this.

 

[ajdelange]

You have 66/20 = 3.3 mEq/L calcium and 133/50 = 2.66 mEq/L alkalinity so the rule of thumb says boiling or lime treatment should be capable of taking you down to 1 mEq/L (50 ppm alkalinity) i.e. dropping 1.66 mEq/L alkalinity which will take 1.66 mEq/L calcium with it leaving 3.3 - 1.66 = 1.64 mEq/L (33 mg/L) calcium behind. This should be enough calcium for most beers but you might want to supplement with some additional calcium chloride (in fact you will for most beers) and calcium sulfate. If you plan to do that do it before boiling as the extra calcium will remove a bit of extra alkalinity. Or you can get rid of the alkalinity by adding about 1.5 mEq/L of any acid (that is any non toxic, food grade acid that doesn't taste bad). Keep in mind that you will need some extra acid to overcome the alkalinity of the pale malts so choose a flavor neutral acid (phosphoric) if you plan to use that technique. Or you can get rid of the alkalinity by diluting it away with RO water or brewing with 100% RO water. If you have easy access to RO water that will be the easiest way to go and the most certain as there may be seasonal or other variations in the composition of your water which RO will take out (for all intents and purposes).

 

[rricchi]

AJ,
Why not just skip the boiling and neutralize with phosphoric acid? That would be much easier and use less energy. Is there a reason you don't recommend that approach?

 

[ajdelange]

I did offer that as an approach and I also suggested the use of RO water which is simpler than acid addition and more flexible.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Csuho]

I do like the use of RO water as it should be always the same starting point where as my water changes from season to season. The only bad part for the RO system is I brew in an non-insulated shop and I have really no room to mount an RO system so it would have to mobile. So in a sense I can hook it up the day before I want to brew and let it make water then unhook it and brew. I have a feeling it would run the chance of the membranes going dry if I don't brew enough.
Are there any units on the market that wouldn't be effected if the membranes get dry after they are wet?

Thanks for the help so far AJ. You kinda said what I thought needed to happen with the easiest route being just use RO water.

 

[mabrungard]

That tap water is not that bad. The main thing to work around is the alkalinity. Even with lactic acid, it appears that the resulting lactate ion content should be around 300 ppm which is less than the average taste threshold of 400 ppm. So acidification isn't out of the question. Using phosphoric should be even more flavor neutral. The rest of the ionic content is modest and could serve a brewer well. There is no need to resort to RO water.

With respect to a portable RO system, there are plenty out there. Just hook it up to the faucet and let it fill an open vessel. There is very little chance that the membrane will dry out if the system is left assembled.

 

[Csuho]

Thanks for the insight guys about the water. The only probably I would have with using the tap water and adding acid to it to get it right is the water profile does change throughout the year and I don't want to have to send off for a report 2 times a year to see where I need to adjust the water since my water company doesn't publish the info I need nor do they know it last time I called.

Thats good to know about the RO system as I wouldn't use it all the time and it would sit for weeks to months at a time.

 

[ajdelange]

You don't have to get a report multiple times per year. All you have to do is compensate for the variation. To do this you measure the alkalinity. To measure the alkalinity you take a sample of the water and add acid to it incrementally until the pH is 4.3 or 4.4 or 4.5 (depending on whose definition of alkalinity you are using). You can then do calculations to figure out how much acid needs to be added to the water to get it to mash pH.

OR you can take the mash water and add acid to it incrementally until the pH reads mash pH. IOW instead of doing the measurement in the lab you can do it in the brewery and not have to do any calculations. With a little experience you will know about how much acid you will need, add most of that and then carefully dribble in the rest until you reach mash pH. For an alkalinity of 133 that will be about 133/50 = 2.66 mEq of acid per liter of water being treated. One mL of 10% phosphoric acid contains about 1 mEq of acid. One mL of lactic contains about 12.

Clearly, working with RO is easier and you don't have to concern yourself with variability in the content of the other ions but you can effectively 'measure' the alkalinity of the water each time you brew in the course of treating it if you want to.

I guess I need to mention that once you have set your liquor's pH to mash pH its alkalinity, as far as mashing is concerned, is 0. You may still need acid to overcome the alkalinity of the malt but with respect to alkalinity of the water it is now the same as that of RO.