Calcium hydroxide usage.

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

hotwatermusic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
434
Reaction score
220
Location
gardena
I recently found the courage to use something other than sodium chloride for raising mash ph (I have 80ppm sodium to begin with). The corner store sells something called "hydrated lime". I checked on my phone and sure enough, its calcium hydroxide. So I look on bru'n water to see how much I'll need for a batch of porter with around 80% RO water and throw it into the strike water I always prepare the night before in the aluminum kettle I brew in. Luckily I thought better and researched how to use it in time.
This brings me to my question. Can I use the bakers technique of dry with dry. Meaning add the lime with the crushed grain to give a stir before doughing in? I'm just wondering about getting an even mix and more effective ph correction. Is there any problem with this? It makes since to me, but then I did just admit to almost turning my kitchen into a hydrogen gas factory.
 
Calcium hydroxide is reasonably soluble in water (and if it's like most calcium salts, it dissolves better in cold water) I would stir it into the hot liquor tank right before you heat the water. Or stir it into a quart of cold water in a glass jar the night before, and add that to the mash.

Mixing it into the crushed grain is probably okay too. You're not going to need all that much.
 
Through some incomprehensible act of science (fancy word for magic) cal hydroxide can actually cause hardness molecules to drop out of solution and lower the ph if used ahead of time. That's one reason I added it to the mash. I believe it acts upon permanent hardness in that respect.
 
While lime addition can drive pH up to the point of precipitating calcium carbonate from the water. However, in most cases where we are adding lime, the water is likely low in calcium in the first place and our lime addition won't create that precipitation.

It's OK to use lime to add alkalinity to your mashing water. The main drawback with lime is that it's purity changes over time and you can't rely on it being pure. Baking soda is actually a better option for adding alkalinity Since it's purity is constant.
 
I recently found the courage to use something other than sodium chloride for raising mash ph (I have 80ppm sodium to begin with). The corner store sells something called "hydrated lime". I checked on my phone and sure enough, its calcium hydroxide. So I look on bru'n water to see how much I'll need for a batch of porter with around 80% RO water and throw it into the strike water I always prepare the night before in the aluminum kettle I brew in. Luckily I thought better and researched how to use it in time.
This brings me to my question. Can I use the bakers technique of dry with dry. Meaning add the lime with the crushed grain to give a stir before doughing in? I'm just wondering about getting an even mix and more effective ph correction. Is there any problem with this? It makes since to me, but then I did just admit to almost turning my kitchen into a hydrogen gas factory.

I think you mean "sodium bicarbonate", rather than sodium chloride for raising mash pH, which means baking soda. Since your sodium is already 80 ppm, I assume that is what you're talking about, and why you want to use lime for raising mash pH.
 
Through some incomprehensible act of science (fancy word for magic) cal hydroxide can actually cause hardness molecules to drop out of solution and lower the ph if used ahead of time. That's one reason I added it to the mash. I believe it acts upon permanent hardness in that respect.

Adding slaked lime to the mash will raise the pH. Always. Lime has a pH of about 14. If you're brewing a stout with soft water, that might be a good thing.

Adding lime to the water ahead of time and decanting off the chalk that precipitates out can lower the alkalinity of the water (the pH will be higher.) Then the acid in the malt can drive the pH down farther because it does not have to fight with all that bicarbonate -- but only if you removed the chalk and potentially other hydroxides and carbonates that dropped out of solution.

Alkalinity and pH are not the same thing, although they are related.
 
Oops and oops again. You guys caught both my mistakes. I gotta stop posting after bedtime. I did mean baking soda and I did confuse that alkalinity reaction, thanks and sorry.
In regards to the lime purity question, what is the lesser of the two evils? I haven't tasted the beer using lime yet, I'm going to check gravity today, but I hate always ending up with so much sodium when I need to correct with baking soda. I haven't yet nailed a dark beer and I'm systematically trying to find what's causing the flavor I find unappealing in these beers.
 
The thing about Ca(OH)2 is that you don't need much of it. Suppose, for example, that you were to make a beer with a typical ale malt and use insane levels of black malt and dark crystal malt to the extent of 1/6 the of the weight of the grist each. IOW 1/3 of the grist is very acidic colored malt. With typical water to grist ratio you'd need about 110 mg/L Ca(OH)2 for a proton absorbing capacity about 3 mEq/L at mash pH. Were you mashing 15 lbs of grain with 5 gal water that would amount to 2.2 grams Ca(OH)2. Adding it to 5 gal of DI water would raise the pH to around 11.6. Now that's alkaline but not highly alkaline so I question whether you would have a repeat of Lakehurst in your kitchen were you to mix that much lime with that much water in an aluminum pot. Yes, the aluminum would pit and corrode but I'm guessing that the reaction would be quite slow i.e. that you might see some discoloration over night or the course of a few days but I haven't tried this. You could try filling your pot and stirring in some lime at the rate of 110 mg/L. I'm guessing that you won't see much, if any, visible reaction. In this case I'd think if you measured out what you need, make a lime slurry out of it by shaking it up in a small container with say a quart of water, heat the strike water to strike temperature and then dump the slurry in with a quick stir just before adding to the grains (or the grains to the water) that you should be fine. If you are still worried about the aluminum reaction pull out a gallon of the hot liquor and dump the slurry into that. Stir and add to the grains or add the grains to the 4 gal remaining and then add the treated gallon. Stir thoroughly. With a liquid to liquid mix of those volumes you should get good mixing pretty quickly.

Lime does pick up CO2 from the air. If it didn't we wouldn't have mortar would we?. It is easy to check on the purity of you lime, however. First put a bit in a cup or on a dish and add a couple of drops of vinegar. If it fizzes then obviously it is largely converted. If it doesn't, mix a little into some DI water and measure the alkalinity using a test kit. The purity (the ratio of hydroxyl to carbonate equivalence) is 100*(2*P - M)/M in which P is the P alkalinity and M the M (total) alkalinity. As this is a ratio it doesn't matter what units your test kit uses.

If you have a crucible handy you can always purify a small quantity of your lime by heating it to orange to yellow heat with a torch (propane torch should do but MAPP or acetylene would be better). Be aware that what's left after the mass cools is quick lime and it will get very hot if exposed to water and that the numbers must be redone to reflect CaO rather than Ca(OH)2.
 
A.J., as always you've gone above the call of duty and it's appreciated. I don't have the numbers handy but I checked my brewing liquor that night and it was only at a pH of 10.4 or so. However I wasn't getting a proper stable reading so it freaked me out a bit. You've assuaged my fears some and I may try the separate vessel next time. As far as purity is concerned my mash pH was within .06 of target which is within acceptable parameters for this particular brewer. I probably won't go to the trouble of testing but I'm happy to have the info should I need to later and I'm sure others are better for it as well. Thank you.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top