Bunch of noob mistakes leads to stalled ferment?

[Smokeater233]

So - my question is a variety of newbie questions all rolled into one problem - which, may not be a problem at all and I'm just overly paranoid about blowing my first batch...

Brewed the first batch on Saturday and decided that I wanted to watch the ferment take place, so instead of doing the easy thing of pouring into one of the buckets (although in my defense my kit did come without a strainer), I decided I'd move forward with the 6.5 gallon carboy. Except of course my kit also came without a funnel. So, as soon as I got the wort down to 80 degrees (accompished with a few bags of ice), I auto-siphoned into the carboy...which of course introduces next to no oxygen (something I predictably thought about after the wort was entirely in the carboy). Immediately thereafter I pitched the small packet of Munton's yeast (which I did not re-hydrate - although the kit did say that was not a requirement). The ambient air was in the mid-70's Fahrenheit. About 6 hours later the yeast clearly began the fermentation process and within about 12 hours I had very aggressive activity in the air lock and a thick layer of krausen. 12 hours later the activity in the air lock slowed and the krausen remained. The carboy temp rose to about 80 degrees as it stored in my kitchen with a small window - indirect sunlight. I chose to move the carboy into a different room (nothing is kept constantly cold at home and I have not tried a wet towel as of yet) where the ambient air is about 5 or 6 degrees cooler with much less sunlight. Since then the air lock has virtually stopped bubbling, the krausen is all but gone, and I've started wondering if there's not enough oxygen in the carboy to complete the ferment.

Now I know that the air lock and the krausen are not absolute indicators of fermentation, so I wanted to try a hydrometer reading. Except of course I don't have a thief, and while the kit did come with a hydrometer, it did not come with a tube. If I go ahead with a reading, should I do it in the carboy, and if so, how do I extricate it after I'm done? (this would also be a good time to mention that I did not do an SG reading - yeah, stupid me, but the recipe suggests between 1.042 and 46, so I figured a 60%+ reduction from that would indicate, roughly, if fermentation has actually completed) If I auto-siphon I'll need to find a vase or something tall enough to do this in I'd presume until I can get my hands on a tube (and yes, I can't just order one up and expect it here in the next week - I live in Asia and it takes several weeks to get the shipments in).

Long story short - I know dry yeasts can finish their fermentation very quickly and it's entirely possible I've done no damage to what I hope will be beer. I've relaxed and had a beer (though, not a homebrew yet), but I'm still a bit worried and would love to do a hydrometer reading in a way that makes sense given my lack of equipment. I did spin the carboy once in the hopes of getting a little more activity, but I don't want to do anymore until I get some third-party advice that is clearly better than my own lack of natural intuition.

 

[bknifefight]

You should get your hands on a turkey baster. I use it to extract beer for Hydro readings and it was only $2 at the grocery store.

 

[Revvy]

This is all you need.

Until you take a reading you don't know anything about what your beer is doing...I see nothing to lead me to believe you have a stalled fermentation....Just that your airlock isn't bubbling, that is not the same thing.

It just sounds to me that fermentation is doing what it is supposed to do, slow down eventually and because it is slowing down, the airlock doesn't NEED to release any excess co2- which is it's only job.

I am sure everything is fine. You have krausen...that means you have fermentation.

 

[Smokeater233]

A turkey baster and something to put it in - guess I will have to try and track down some sort of test tube for the hydrometer given that I have nothing else in the house that's tall enough to support it. And I had krausen, but it's now dissipated. Is it too early to crack the airlock and dive into the ferment with the baster or should I wait the prescribed week+ first?

 

[Revvy]

Do you still have the little round plastic tube that your hydrometer came it? It's not great but it will do in a pinch. Have someone else hold it up while you fill it with the santized turkey baster.

 

[Smokeater233]

I do indeed, and I had given that thought but was concerned about a heavy leak and bad readings, but...makes sense to me, why not give it a shot. Appreciate the encouragement!

 

[tdoft]

You had a quick and probably complete fermentation. Often these low gravity beers are mostly done within 48 hours. The high fermentation temp accelerated the process even further. The only possible problem would be esther formation from the high temp as most ale yeast are cleaner at 68 degrees or so. Anyway, the best thing to do at this point is keep it in a cool dark place for awhile while you wait for a theif to arrive and then check the gravity. Three weeks plus in the primary is a good thing. The aging will allow the yeast to clean things up so that by the time you are ready to bottle or keg I'm betting the beer will be great!

 

[Tobyone]

I'm glad you ask these questions because some of them sound like the same problems I go through. However the one question I was hoping that would get answered was about your fermenting temp. mid 70's-80. I'm interested to know if some of these more experienced brewers think that is to high of a temp. Mine ferments at around 76 or 77. so far my first batch had no issues so I think that temp is ok

 

[Tobyone]

^nevermind. thanks tdoft

 

[stevo155]

My biggest concern about this is the sunlight, whether it be direct or much less. You do not want ANY light hitting this carboy. Light will react with the hops in the beer and produce a skunky aroma/flavor. At the very least, you should cover it with something to block out the light but a closet is probably your best bet ( no light ).

 

[broadbill]

I'm glad you ask these questions because some of them sound like the same problems I go through. However the one question I was hoping that would get answered was about your fermenting temp. mid 70's-80. I'm interested to know if some of these more experienced brewers think that is to high of a temp. Mine ferments at around 76 or 77. so far my first batch had no issues so I think that temp is ok

For ales:
mid 70- too high
80s-WAY too high.

recommended: mid 60s

 

[tdoft]

The yeast you use really dictates what temps are best. I got away with high temps for a long time using mainly S-05 but when I allowed a S-04 batch to get into the low 80s I learned what apple esters taste like-and it's not good! (At least in an Octoberfest!)

 

[Tobyone]

the s-05 is what I used this past weekend. i gots a refrigerator in the garage that I may turn on tonight and try to regulate the temp better (lower). airlock is still bubbling very well almost 4 days later.

 

[Smokeater233]

For ales:
mid 70- too high
80s-WAY too high.

recommended: mid 60s

So the yeast I used said it was fine for the mid-70's to 80's - I just got worried after I saw little activity in the carboy and the air lock slowing and the krausen disappearing. Again, I know none of these are absolute indicators of fermentation completing, but it was still a little harrowing see all that happen in barely 24+ hours after beginning the process.

My biggest concern about this is the sunlight, whether it be direct or much less. You do not want ANY light hitting this carboy. Light will react with the hops in the beer and produce a skunky aroma/flavor. At the very least, you should cover it with something to block out the light but a closet is probably your best bet ( no light ).

Good point - I will shut the curtains on this room and close the door - hopefully keep it nice and cold and dark and pray that I haven't done any damage.

 

[tdoft]

S-05 will be fine as long as you keep it in the 70s!. At this point only take action like refridgeration if the 80s threaten. Otherwise you might shut the fermentation down. As far as light exposure, I find a black or brown t-shirt over the carboy plus or minus a clothspin around the neck is perfect.

 

[Smokeater233]

So, an update... I decided to take a hydro reading today and it reads 1.020...a little more than halfway to where the expected FG should be. I tried the beer in the tube and it has a bit of a bitter start and a sweet-ish finish. Clearly some fermentation happened but I'm not convinced it's done. I'm now thinking of waiting until the weekend and seeing if there's been any improvement in the hydro numbers.

I did see elsewhere in the forums about Munton's dry yeast being notorious for finishing its ferment around the 1.020 mark...if the hydro show the same numbers this weekend I'm thinking of rousing the yeast to give it one last shot (is this a bad idea?) and then leaving it in the carboy to ferment and settle for another week...

I'm thinking of using different dry yeast in the future given the comments on Munton's - I'd love to use liquid yeast, but I'm based overseas and am perhaps a little paranoid that I'll kill off the liquid yeast in transit.

Any other suggestions from this esteemed group?

 

[broadbill]

So, an update... I decided to take a hydro reading today and it reads 1.020...a little more than halfway to where the expected FG should be. I tried the beer in the tube and it has a bit of a bitter start and a sweet-ish finish. Clearly some fermentation happened but I'm not convinced it's done. I'm now thinking of waiting until the weekend and seeing if there's been any improvement in the hydro numbers.

I did see elsewhere in the forums about Munton's dry yeast being notorious for finishing its ferment around the 1.020 mark...if the hydro show the same numbers this weekend I'm thinking of rousing the yeast to give it one last shot (is this a bad idea?) and then leaving it in the carboy to ferment and settle for another week...

I'm thinking of using different dry yeast in the future given the comments on Munton's - I'd love to use liquid yeast, but I'm based overseas and am perhaps a little paranoid that I'll kill off the liquid yeast in transit.

Any other suggestions from this esteemed group?

I'd wait another 2 weekends, at least. Conventional wisdom around here is that beer should be allowed to sit for at least 3 weeks, before considering racking and/or bottling. I know the instructions that came with the kit probably said 7 days and then rack/bottle, but the beer does benefit from extended ageing in bulk. Do a search on this forum and you'll see ALOT of threads about this. Don't rouse, re-pitch yeast or anything else, either. Its fine doing what its doing

As for the gravity reading, you might be close to FG. Extract batches are notorious for ending up at higher FG. I'd leave your beer for another 2 weeks and check the OG again....good luck!

 

[Smokeater233]

A new update - tomorrow will be two days in the carboy...hydrometer early this week had shown reducing gravity and I was planning on bottling tomorrow (roughly 24 hours from now), presuming that the hydrometer readings tonight and tomorrow were stable. There's been a little white patch on the top of the beer for the past two days...didn't look like an infection, but more like the reformation of a little krausen right in the middle of the beer. I got home a few minutes ago, smelled what I thought was fermenting beer, and immediately decided to look in the carboy. The white patch has now consumed the top layer and it is occupying space roughly 1/6 of an inch above the beer - and now the airlock is suddenly active again...not very active, but I'm seeing bubbles. The temperature in the room has remained fairly constant this week, but I forgot to close the curtains completely today and thus it might have been a bit warmer than it was for the rest of the week. Could a temperature change have caused a secondary ferment or an unfinished ferment to awaken? I did move the bottle slightly this week which may have inadvertently roused the yeast... What's the prevailing wisdom on this? If it is indeed krausen, wait for it to fall and go back to the hydrometer readings until all has stabilized and then bottle? I've chosen not to disrupt whatever is going on in the carboy with another hydrometer reading tonight, so I have no idea how close it is to FG, but it was already getting close to the expected FG nearly 7 days ago.

Any thoughts?

 

[Revvy]

Yeah you're beer is fermenting, because it wasn't done when you racked it over. If you planned on bottling in 2 days, I wouldn't unless you want bottle bombs.....

It sounds like you are rushing through this, and trying to control when it is ready. You really can't, you are not in charge of this, the yeast are, and they set their own time frame.

Many of us leave our beer alone in primary for a month, to let the beer actually finish and then to let the yeast clean up after itself.

Or if we rack to secondary, we don't even begin checking the gravity for 10-12 days after yeast pitch. (If I secondary I usually don't do in til 2 weeks after I pitch my yeast, not anytime sooner.)

Slow down.....let the yeast do their job....They are experts, and rarely let us down.

You can't brew based on what someone writes as instructions. Yeast don't know how to read so they seldom follow their scripts. They dance to their own tune and its seldom 4 x 4 Time. The way to know when a beer is done when 2 consequitive hydro readings over 3 days stay the same.

If you arbitrarily move your beer, like to follow the silly 1-2-3 rule, you will often interrupt fermentation. Because sometimes the yeast won't even begin to ferment your beer until 72 hours after yeast pitch, so if you rush the beer off the yeast on day 7 then you are only allowing the yeast 4 days to work, and that is really not enough time to get the job done.

Actually taking it off the yeast too soon prevents some much needed cleanup (and the true secondary fermentation period) from happenning. That's why many of us have opted for LONG primary/No secondary. Instead of rushing the beer off the yeast cake before the job is done. The yeast are very tenacious creatures, and if we actually leave them the heck alone, and not move them too soon, they will actually clean up after themselves, and remove their own waste/by products of fermentation, and actually will lead to cleaner, clearer and fresher tasting beers.

Moving it during fermentation more often than not has led to stuck fermentations.....And off flavors. Or extra krausens....

You'll find that more and more recipes these days do not advocate moving to a secondary at all, but mention primary for a month, which is starting to reflect the shift in brewing culture that has occurred in the last 4 years, MOSTLY because of many of us on here, skipping secondary, opting for longer primaries, and writing about it. Recipes in BYO have begun stating that in their magazine. I remember the "scandal" it caused i the letters to the editor's section a month later, it was just like how it was here when we began discussing it, except a lot more civil than it was here. But after the Byo/Basic brewing experiment, they started reflecting it in their recipes.

 

[Smokeater233]

Revvy - I didn't move the beer anywhere except on my floor in my closet, i.e. I never racked it anywhere. It's been in the primary fermenter since the beginning. My first hydrometer reading was nearly a week after I pitched the yeast, and if you recall from my first post on this, I had a very fast ferment.

 

[Revvy]

Revvy - I didn't move the beer anywhere except on my floor in my closet, i.e. I never racked it anywhere. It's been in the primary fermenter since the beginning. My first hydrometer reading was nearly a week after I pitched the yeast, and if you recall from my first post on this, I had a very fast ferment.

What do you mean by this sentence then?

tomorrow will be two days in the carboy

What am I missing here? You started this thread on the 21st....and you just updated saying the beer has been in the carboy 2 days??? And you want to bottle it in 2 more days?


Either way if you have krausen again, it is waaaay too soon to do anything.

 

[Smokeater233]

You got me there - that should have read two "weeks"...sorry...

 

[Revvy]

You got me there - that should have read two "weeks"...sorry...

LOL....

I'm betting that indeed there was enough of a temp change to kick off some more fermentation. So I would wait another week or so before contemplating bottling it.

 

[Smokeater233]

Ok - will do...do we think that my moving the bottle (a little beer swished up the interior sides, but nothing to write home about), might have roused the yeast too, or merely just a temperate change? I ask because the temp deflection might have been two degrees more than normal at the very most.

 

[Revvy]

Yes, moving it could have roused the yeast as well. Those are the first two methods we recommend for getting a true stuck fermentation unstuck. Warming (sometimes simply by wrapping the fermenter in a blanket) or a gentle swish to kick up the yeast.