Building Mill! However...general Milling question...

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SeanGC

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Hello everyone.

I've been doing some research and I've decided on a mill and a motor for my DIY motorized milling station.

Mill: http://www.crankandstein.net/index...._id=10&zenid=aa93210f0feb7b3894c496280b077c0b
Motor: https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=&qty=1&item=5-1098

However, a friend of mine brought up an interesting idea, and I figured you guys here at homebrewtalk would know.

I was wondering, could I use my motorized barley mill to mill other grains? (oats/corn included) I figured since the mill is adjustable, this shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.
 

GilaMinumBeer

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Contact General Mills Consumer Services




Questions? Feedback?
We welcome your comments. For answers to common questions see FAQs
By Email: Please use the email form below.
By Telephone: Please call us at 1-800-248-7310 between (7:30 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. CT, weekdays)
By Fax: Please send your fax to 1-763-764-8330.
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General Mills, Inc.
P.O. Box 9452
Minneapolis, MN 55440


Couldn't resist.

As to what you can mill. Sure. Corn might stress the motor tho'. prolly just lock up the rollers.
 
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SeanGC

SeanGC

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Do you have any other suggestions in a motor? I didn't even realize the inflated cost for shipping.
 

Catt22

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I'm sure you could mill grains besides malt. The mill gap is adjustable, but you may find that for some larger grains such as corn, that the gap won't be wide enough to permit the kernels to be drawn in. I could be completely wrong on this, but the bottom line is you will already have the mill for brewing and it won't hurt to give other grains a try if you desire. Worst case that I can see is that it may not work, and if so, no big deal. Don't expect the mill to make flour though. It surely won't be able to do that.
 

Brewmoor

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I just got a 1/4hp motor on ebay for about $45 shipped. You will want a faster motor anyway. 117rpm is not that fast. Most people spin their mills around 300-400 rpm.

Here is where I got mine. Ebay Store It spins at 1725rpm. I got a 10 inch wheel for the mill and a 21/4 inch pully for the motor. So It will spin the mill around 350rpm.
 

MW66

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Actually, it's 177 rpm. I think it's fine for my JSP.




I just got a 1/4hp motor on ebay for about $45 shipped. You will want a faster motor anyway. 117rpm is not that fast. Most people spin their mills around 300-400 rpm.

Here is where I got mine. Ebay Store It spins at 1725rpm. I got a 10 inch wheel for the mill and a 21/4 inch pully for the motor. So It will spin the mill around 350rpm.
 

Brewmoor

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This was in the email I got from Jack.

MOTORIZING A MALTMILL

For reasons of product liability and greedy lawyers, we do
not give recommendations on motorizing our product. It is
shipped with a handcrank and it is presumed that if a user
wishes to motorize it, the user assumes the responsibility
and risk. We expect the user of such a modified mill to call
a doctor and not a lawyer in the event that injury results from
motorizing it.

We can however, provide information that users have found
to work well.

The mill should not be run beyond about 500 RPM as the
efficiency starts dropping at around this speed because malt
is thrown around rather than being fed through the rollers.

The easiest but least desirable method of motorizing is to use
an electric drill if it has sufficient torque to drive the mill at the
above RPM.

If a drill is used, two additional flats should be ground on the shaft
120 degrees apart to provide proper seating for the 3 jaw chuck. The chuck
must be kept tight at all times or the hardened jaws can chew up
the end of the roller shaft. The weight of a heavy drill or leaning on it
can bend the shaft. If something hard gets stuck in the rollers, either the
rollers or the drill can be damaged.

The ideal way to achieve a reasonable speed is to put a 3"
pulley on a 1700 RPM motor and a 12" pulley on the mill.
Connecting the two with a V-belt will provide about 425 RPM.
(3/12 X 1700=425) Just about any size motor will operate
the mill but 1/2 HP is probably ideal.

Large pulleys with 3/8" bores are hard to find so you will need
to purchase reducers to accommodate the 3/8" shaft on the mill.

The feet can be removed from the base and the base screwed
to a larger board with the front of the mill hanging over the edge.
This provides room to mount the motor behind the mill.

..........

The dangers to be aware of are the following:

Belts and pulleys have been known to remove fingers and that
is why machines so equipped have belt and pulley cages.

Dust can be explosive and that is why explosion proof motors
have been invented.

The rollers are designed to crush things. The finger guards that
are installed on the mill are to keep fingers out of the rollers.
DO NOT REMOVE THEM.

Turning a crank might be a pain, but so are crushed fingers.

js
 
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SeanGC

SeanGC

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Thanks alot guys, I appreciate it.

One can always adjust the speed by purchasing bigger wheels, and longer pulleys (obviously with a new mill base) correct?
 

Catt22

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I just got a 1/4hp motor on ebay for about $45 shipped. You will want a faster motor anyway. 117rpm is not that fast. Most people spin their mills around 300-400 rpm.

Here is where I got mine. Ebay Store It spins at 1725rpm. I got a 10 inch wheel for the mill and a 21/4 inch pully for the motor. So It will spin the mill around 350rpm.
My motorized mill runs at only 115 rpm and will crush about 2 lbs/minute, but I'm using one of the smallest mills, the Phil Mill I. A mill with wider rollers running at that speed could probably double that rate or more. I actually prefer the slower speed as it produces almost no dust at all. The relatively slow mill speed is not even a minor inconvenience. I fill the hopper and let it run while I do something else. I never find myself waiting for the mill to finish cranking out the grist.
 

Brewmoor

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I purchased mine direct. Link. They have a barebones option if you plan to make your own hopper and base.

I got the gear drive option and the case hardened rollers, as well as the steel base. I am putting a 50 pound hopper on a frame I am building for it. I will be able to slide a 20 gallon Brute bucket under it. I will be milling about 100 pounds of grain each time I use it.
 
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SeanGC

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You definitely have to put some pictures up once you're done with that 50 pound hopper.

What's the different between the gear driven option and the non-gear? Also, what are the benefits of having case hardened rollers?
 

Catt22

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Also, you think this is a good motor? And does it look reliable?

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARATHON-3-PHAS...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4151005fd0
Absolutely not! That's a 3-phase motor. It's very unlikely that you have three phase service to your home. Perhaps you do, but I seriously doubt it. A single phase 110v AC motor is what you want to look for. A gearmotor would be ideal if you can find one with desired power requirements, rpm and torque at a reasonable price. The easiest and most economical way to go would be to use a drill motor, regardless of what Jack S. has to say about them. You will want a low rpm drill motor with a lot of torque, but these can be had at Harbor Freight for cheap. If you go with a drill motor, I would suggest configuring it so that the drill is supported. It's not good to have a heavy drill motor just hanging from the mill shaft as this can result in excessive wear on the mill shaft bushings. Supporting the motor should not be at all difficult to do.

This one would get the job done: http://www.harborfreight.com/power-...inch-heavy-duty-spade-handle-drill-93632.html
 

Catt22

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How would these motors work? Or these? Or this?
You could probably make any of those work, but keep in mind that you will be paying shipping. You will also have to buy sheaves and a belt for the drive and speed reduction. Add all that up and it will probably exceed the cost of the Harbor Freight drill motor. I would not go that way, but that's JMO as usual.
 
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SeanGC

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I prefer a motor. I may be dragging this thing back and forth between homes, and I like all my pieces in one place. That's just how I am. I would probably end up leaving the harbor freight drill at home.

I've been hearing alot of good things about that drill, though...
 

Catt22

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I prefer a motor. I may be dragging this thing back and forth between homes, and I like all my pieces in one place. That's just how I am. I would probably end up leaving the harbor freight drill at home.

I've been hearing alot of good things about that drill, though...
If that's the case, then by all means do it the hard and expensive way and have a much heavier and bulkier piece of equipment to drag back and forth.
 

Brewmoor

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What's the different between the gear driven option and the non-gear? Also, what are the benefits of having case hardened rollers?
The gear drive option is a set gears that are case hardened and make both rollers spin. Most mills when you turn the crank only turn the roller that it is connected to. This option gives the mill a bit more power to push grain through. Case hardened rollers just make the metal stronger. It makes the knurling last longer. Recommended to me since I will be using this mill commercially.
 

ubermick

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Did you try the UPS ground rate instead of priority mail?
One thing to bear in mind, I was actually looking at that exact motor for myself (I wanted to avoid sheaves and belts) but was told by several folks (including Fred at Monster Mill) that it didn't have enough torque, saying you need at LEAST 50 in-lbs, preferably more.
 
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SeanGC

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But by slowing down the RPMs (pulleys, wheels, etc), doesn't this increase your torque?
 

Catt22

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But by slowing down the RPMs (pulleys, wheels, etc), doesn't this increase your torque?
Yes it does and in nearly direct proportion to the speed recuduction. I say nearly, as there is some variation due to frictional losses etc. It will be a very minor difference though and for all practical purposes you can ignore it. The speed reduction and the increase in torque is essentially the ratio of the diameter of the sheaves (pulleys). ie a 2 inch sheave to a 10 inch would give you a 5 to 1 speed reduction and a 5 to 1 increase in torque or very nearly so.
 

Brewmoor

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I think you will be fine with the 1/4hp motor. That is the size I went with and that thing is a monster. Once it is geared down it will have plenty of power. I have seen 1/8 hp capacitor start motors work well. I think the key is getting that thing started. Getting a Capacitor start motor will help get full hopper moving with that little extra umph at the start.

The 1/3 HP motor that ubermick posted would be a great motor too.

Both of those motors spin at 1725 rpm which is the same speed I have from mine. I went with 10" pully for the mill and 2 1/4" on the motor. That works out to roughly about 350 rpm about a 5 to 1 reduction. I got my sheaves from McMaster Carr. I can give you part numbers if you want.
 

ubermick

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But by slowing down the RPMs (pulleys, wheels, etc), doesn't this increase your torque?
As Cat mentioned, it would give you an increase in torque, but the original motor in question (the 177RPM gearmotor from Surplus Direct) wouldn't be using pulleys, since it's right at the RPMs you want already. Gearing it down would increase the torque, but make it run ooooooh sooooo slooooooowlyyyy....

Brewmoor's probably right, the 1/4hp would be enough. Everyone and their uncle told me I needed a 1/2hp, but I went 1/3, and it runs my Monster Mill MM3 without a problem. The only issue you'd have is starting a lower power motor with the hopper full. (Which is why you'd want capacitor start in the first place, I'm thinking) I'm running a 12" sheave on my mill and a 1.5" one on my motor, giving me somewhere around the 200 RPM that I wanted, I got mine from Drillspot (the retail version of Grainger) mainly because I couldn't seem to find the 12" one with a 1/2" bore on McMaster's site. (I could only find a 10", and I had a bug up my arse about getting the speed under 200)
 
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SeanGC

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I won the 1/4, and I plan on getting the rpms to at most 300. I'm also going to grab the barebones malt mill.

You guys have helped me so much. and I appreciate all the help I've received from all of you.

If you wouldn't mind showing me the part numbers, that'd be great. I have a few hardware stores around me that sell electric motor accessories (belts, pullys, etc) but everyone speaks very highly of McMaster's.
 

ubermick

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If you want to keep the RPMs under 300, I'd suggest a 2" sheave for the motor, and a 12" one for the mill. (Both of which will actually be more like 1.55 and 11.55 when you take into account the pitch)

From Drillspot (since like I said, I couldn't find the 12" sheave on MMC) the parts you'd need are...

2" OD with a 1/2" bore: 3X895
12" OD with a 1/2" bore: 3X938 (verify that the maltmill has a 1/2" shaft - I couldn't see that on their site, but I did find a maltmill build here where the guy does use that exact shaft.)

FWIW, those are the same sheaves I have on my setup, and it chewed through 22lbs of grain today in about 3 minutes!
 

Brewmoor

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The Malt Mill does not come with a 1/2" shaft. It is smaller. When you order, tell them you are motorizing the mill and you would like bushings for a 1/2"sheave. They will send you brass bushing that will slide into the sheave. It took a bit of modification to get mine fit correctly but it works great. I had to cut one of the bushing down a bit with a dremel so the set screw would touch the flat spot on the shaft. I just got mine yesterday in the mail and put it all together.
 
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SeanGC

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Sorry for reviving an old thread lol.

Alright so, I purchased a http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270615440544&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_3075wt_1139 from ebay in great condition. Now, my father has experience with electrical work, so I relied on his contributions to help me get the motor running.

However, he's been pretty held up with other projects so I figured i'd try to atleast prepare some of the hardware for him on the backend when he becomes more available.

The wiring diagram provided by Dayton seems pretty simple enough. Red, Black, Ground. CW and CCW rotation when switching black and red (to my understanding)

With that said, what do I need to get this thing running besides the wires?
 
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