Bucket v.s. conical v.s. unitank

[BluetickBrewing]

I'm trying hard to justify a spike CF10 unitank with all the bells, whistles, and cup holders but at $1,100 it's hard to justify. So has anyone really found a quality difference after switching from plastic buckets and glass carboys to a unitank or conical fermenter? I love all the extra quality of life features, carbonating in the fermenter prior to kegging and bottling, and the "I'm a bad ass" look. But damn.... I have bills and a mortage. Price point is high for a dream and hobby.

 

[beerfactory]

You can make a quality product without spending a grand on a fermenter.

 

[BluetickBrewing]

Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% sure you can. I guess what I'm getting at is am I missing out on something. Seeing how popular they are it just makes you wonder if the investment cost is actually worth it as far as time, space, and quality are concerned. I've never used one and don't know anyone who has, so I figured I'd reach out and get some feedback.

 

[AlexKay]

Are you planning on harvesting yeast? If you aren’t, is there any advantage or added capability over a stainless steel bucket fermenter (SS brew bucket, Spike Flex, etc.)?

Spending $100-200 to get stainless makes total sense to me. $1100, on the other hand…

 

[BluetickBrewing]

That makes sense. Yes, I want to start harvesting yeast, but my plan was to over produce on my starters and save away a bit for the next brew. Just continue on with that cycle (so long as I can before buying a fresh package). Have you worked with either of the buckets before? I was looking at the SS Tech for a while but keep getting pushed away because of the lack of temp control. Colorado temps swing like a donkey dick and having something I can isolate to my garage is a big plus in my book. I've already had 3 batches get too cold (kept in the kitchen near a heat vent) due to winter temps.


Edit: Guess there is temp control for the buckets. Something I will have to look into a bit further. Thank you AlexKay!

 

[AlexKay]

I should add that while I have buckets from SS and Delta Brewing, I don’t have any conicals, so I’m speaking only from my own “would this be an upgrade” musings. The buckets do have cooling coils that run through the lid, but also can fit into chest freezers more easily.

(Just checked the prices on 14-gallon buckets and — wow! — I’m not sure how much money you’re saving over the conical.)

 

[bracconiere]

$1,100 it's hard to justify.

damn thing better have a mask and wheels to get to the liquor store and rob the place on it's own, come back to my place full....


but yeah SS is really nice....i've recently started using 16 gallon SS milk pails for my fermenters...they have big openings and, really just need to be wiped down to clean the krausen off...

 

[Spivey24]

How many brews do you have fermenting at a time? I currently have (4) 7 gallon ss brew buckets going right now. That would be $2200 in conicals. Lol. I have no experience in conicals but I look at all the pieces and I think a nightmare to clean. I don’t even like cleaning the one port on my brew bucket. I brew 10 gallon batches so the thought of dumping that to a single fermenter is interesting and setting up glycol instead of my now 3 freezers is appealing, but I have a lot of flexibility with the 5 fermenters I have. I can also throw them in the laundry sink to clean pretty easy. I wouldn’t mind having a dry hop port but can live without and could probably rig one up if I cared enough. I am sure if I had the full conical setup I would make it my process and be quite happy, but I would get the cf15 to make it worth it.

another thought is I could barely move a cf10 full. So do you have to brew right next to where you ferment, or I guess you could fill buckets, carry, and dump.

 

[T Murph]

Lol, it's all about the addiction. I've brewed great beers in both glass and stainless steel. A conical simply takes you to the next level. It offers opportunities that allow you to step it up a notch above the former equipment. It's all about where you want to go with the hobby. I have a conical and I still ferment in a kegmenter or glass carboy on occasion. Just depends on what I'm making and how I want to do it. It comes down to what you want to do at this point in your brewing processes. Don't worry, relax and have a homebrew.

 

[bracconiere]

I still ferment in a kegmenter or glass carboy

don't want them slacking off!

but now i'm thinking of maybe , a rack for my milk pail upside down, and something like this to replace the lid.....

https://www.amazon.com/Clamp-Clover-Sanitary-Concentric-Reducer/dp/B07MVK2KF3
(conical would be nice, would make it way easier to 'save' money harvesting yeast!)

 

[beerfactory]

I can ladle yeast out of my 7.6 gallon kegmenter easily and I am glad I bought it.

I would consider a nice conical if the wife were to allocate a room in the house for a brewery build - I would do that as a functional decoration - which is how I think of them for my purposes. As it is - I am basically storing all my stuff on shelves in the garage.

Someone was posting about 6 gallon torpedo kegs the other day... I am considering picking up (2) of them when I scale to ten gallon batches. I see them as easier to handle and compatible with my fermentation chamber. I could harvest yeast from them too and I don't worry about fancy dry hop rigs.

I may also consider increasing footprint of my fermentation chamber. If I do that then I might add a 2nd 7.6 gallon kegmenter. I like it.. it's easy enough to handle and very easy to clean.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

You can harvest the yeast as easily from a bucket as you can from the other fermenters mentioned here. We have a 7 gallon Genesis, and 8 gallon Delta conical fermenters.
The Genesis was $12 on sale, with free shipping. The Delta today is well over $200.
It's your money. And we harvest the yeast from every batch.

 

[SFC Rudy]

You don't need a bunch of shiny **** to make great beer. I fermented in plastic buckets for 20 years. Last year when I had some disposable income I bought a couple Anvil stainless fementers. My beer tastes the same. Only difference is I don't have to buy new plastic buckets every year or so.

 

[friarsmith]

I had a 14gal and two 7gal SS conicals for several years. Sold them off 2-3 yrs ago and bought 4 SS Anvil brew buckets. Love them. No drop-off in beer quality. Lighter and easier/quicker to clean and fit better in chest freezers. The only minor downside is that I cant drain the last bit of cold break that sinks after the wort is in the fermenter for a bit before pitching. But I just compensate by adjusting the BK to not drain as much trub (and wait a few mins longer to rack from BK to fermenter.

Regarding yeast harvesting, I just pour slurry through a cheap canning funnel into mason jars. Never had problem.

 

[Wigglebutts Brewery]

I’m a Better Bottle fermenter. i focused on temp control (also in Denver) and got a chest freezer with a 100w infrared heater & Inkbird controller. Works great and it’s easy to harvest yeast. The SS conicals are cool but there’s always something I want more like a cask ale - beer engine setup.

 

[Moose_MI]

Oh please someone justify the stainless conical…PLEASE!

3 years doing 15G in buckets…3 years trying to pull the trigger on a conical….3 years not being able to justify it…

I WANT MY CONICAL DAMN IT!

HELP ME…PLEASE…I‘M BEGGING YOU

 

[T Murph]

@Moose_MI here is your justification, I wanted one. It's the addiction and if you can abstain, good for you. I'm in it over 30 years and no matter how many times I say I'm good, not buying anymore brewing toys, I fail. Someone comes out with something that I just gotta have. And here we are.

 

[Konadog]

I was happy getting away from glass with the SS Brewbuckets. They work just fine, and I'm not going to chop my hand off if I drop one.

That's how I justified my first jump.

 

[T Murph]

@Konadog I still ferment in carboys and kegmenters on occasion. Depends on what I'm making and how I want to do it. I do primary fermentation of meads in carboys and from there to go to keggles. I still like to use kegmenters for certain brews. And I'm thinking about adding a brewbucket cause I don't have one.

 

[Ridenour64]

I would say the larger the batch size (assuming you want it all in one fermenter), the more it makes sense. I used to have a 7 gallon SS brewtech unitank and I sold it. Wasn’t worth the hassle of cleaning it for a 5 gallon batch. I now ferment 10 gallon batches in a 15 gallon Torpedo keg. I think you could justify it if you routinely make 10 gallon batches, and 15+ I would no doubt get one.

I recently got into brewing 2.5 gallon batches on a small batch system and I’ve really been enjoying the small scale. Those are fermented in a 5 gallon keg.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Oh please someone justify the stainless conical…PLEASE!

3 years doing 15G in buckets…3 years trying to pull the trigger on a conical….3 years not being able to justify it…

I WANT MY CONICAL DAMN IT!

HELP ME…PLEASE…I‘M BEGGING YOU

Stainless steel will not pick up / absorb flavors from your beers. Plastic will take on aromas, over a period of time. Even the best grade plastic will absorb flavor / aroma.
Stainless is easier to keep clean, and to sanitize.
It's an item that will last a lifetime.
They look nice.

 

[bike2brew]

I currently have (4) 7 gallon ss brew buckets going right now. ... [stuff deleted] I brew 10 gallon batches so the thought of dumping that to a single fermenter is interesting .... but I have a lot of flexibility with the 5 fermenters I have.

So I have recently added another 3.5 gal SS brewTech to my modest kitchen with the idea I want to upgrade to production of 5 gallon batches. I figure to divide my batch into the two 3.5 gal fermenters leaving plenty of room for headspace. My question, how precise do you need to be pitching yeast into each of the "1/2" batches? When the recipe calls for "1" pkg am I better off opening 2 and pouring 1/2 into each with the idea I may be erring on the side of over-pitching rather than under? I guess I have been led to believe that under-pitching is more detrimental and perhaps leading to stalled fermentation so want to avoid that to get my final gravity as close to target as possible.

To stay relevant w/ the original thread. I upgraded from a plastic BrewDaemon to the SS brewTech earlier this year and love it for easy of clean up, no aroma carry over between batches, etc. Both were conicals so I have always bottled straight from the fermenter after 1 or 2 weeks of secondary without transfer. So far everything has been good and I expect a long period of service from the SS. At $135 it was not the most expensive piece of equipment I have ever spent on a hobby I am passionate about.

 

[T Murph]

Bike2brew I would make a starter a few days before brew day to build up the cell count. Then you can split the starter between the two batches being confident you are pitching sufficient a quantity of yeast cells into each. IME I get quicker and more robust fermentation starts doing this.

 

[DavidWood2115]

Oh please someone justify the stainless conical…PLEASE!

3 years doing 15G in buckets…3 years trying to pull the trigger on a conical….3 years not being able to justify it…

I WANT MY CONICAL DAMN IT!

HELP ME…PLEASE…I‘M BEGGING YOU

I just kegged my first batch from my new Spike CF10 and I couldn't be happier with my choice to buy it. Here's why....

I make a lot of hoppy beers and like many have struggled with aroma and flavor destroying oxidation issues using buckets and carboys. I tried at least a half dozen different schemes to minimize oxygen ingress during dry hopping and quasi-closed transfer to kegs, but it was always hit or miss whether the beer would end up drinking well for more than a few weeks (and sometimes even a day). With my new setup, once I finish oxygenating the wort, my beer doesn't get exposed to open air until it goes in the glass. This is priceless!

DETAILS: I used a 1.5" sight glass and butterfly valve for dry hopping (up to ~3 oz in one shot), with 4 cycles of vacuum sealer and CO2 pressurization to drop the O2 level in the remaining air to <= 1%. I spunded to 12psi @ 68F, cold crashed to 35F, then carbonated to 9psi (13psi on the gauge due to the wetting pressure) in about 12 hours. I filled the keg with Starsan, purged with C02 with the liquid post connected to my closed transfer line, then connected the transfer line to the racking arm with the CO2 still flowing (leaving the connection loose for 10 seconds to purge as much O2 as possible from the dead space in the racking arm butterfly valve). Adjusted the spunding valve to start releasing at the current fermenter pressure, closed the butterfly valve between the fermenter and spunding valve (I have a separate safety PRV), and connected the spunding valve to the keg's gas post. Switched the CO2 to a gas post on the fermenter, turned the CO2 up a couple of psi above the fermenter, opened the racking arm valve, and put 5 gallons of crystal clear beer into the keg. Put the keg in the keezer and a few hours later pulled a perfectly carbonated glass of beer, with no yeast sludge to be seen. Loved it!

Only time will tell how long the hops hold up in this beer, but I guarantee you it received far less oxygen exposure than any previous IPA I have ever made. And while I am sure there are other, cheaper ways to achieve the same effect, I decided life was too short for me to keep taking half measures. Others are free to make other choices.

P.S. I've said this elsewhere, but I was explaining the plans for my home brewery to my uncle a few years ago and he asked me: "How many beers do you need to make for this to be cost effective?" To which I replied: "About as many as the fish you need to catch to make your new boat cost effective!"

 

[marc1]

Also consider this option:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/kegmenter-fermentation-keg-153-gal.html
If you are not dropping yeast out of the vessel, and don't want a butterfly valve dry hopper, this works great. Easy to hook in-line to kegs for purging during fermentation, spundable, easy closed transfers with floating dip tube, and stainless with a large opening for easy cleaning.

I have the 13.2 gallon one (because the 15 was not available when I bought it) and like it a lot.

 

[hout17]

If you don't want to spend a ton of cash I think the Fermzilla Plastic Conicals could be interesting. I may grab one down the road you can get them in 7.1 and 13.2 gallon sizes.

It's more of the bling factor and that spike sure looks nice.

 

[Moose_MI]

@Moose_MI here is your justification, I wanted one. It's the addiction and if you can abstain, good for you. I'm in it over 30 years and no matter how many times I say I'm good, not buying anymore brewing toys, I fail. Someone comes out with something that I just gotta have. And here we are.

Oh I’m very familiar with the addiction…not so much the abstinence. And I certainly want one…they’re just so freaking cool.

….I just haven’t figured out what Im going to point to 3 months down the road that will make it worth the effort to shift to conical. It’s not just the conical vs bucket..it’s then the temp control for conical…and for 15G batches you’re going to need CIP for cleaning conical….and pumps to transfer from conical,and and, and

It’s not the coin…..i just can’t figure out how Id be better off even if someone gave me conical…other than it would be VERY cool to look at

Cheers!

 

[Stormcrow]

So I have recently added another 3.5 gal SS brewTech to my modest kitchen with the idea I want to upgrade to production of 5 gallon batches. I figure to divide my batch into the two 3.5 gal fermenters leaving plenty of room for headspace. My question, how precise do you need to be pitching yeast into each of the "1/2" batches? When the recipe calls for "1" pkg am I better off opening 2 and pouring 1/2 into each with the idea I may be erring on the side of over-pitching rather than under? I guess I have been led to believe that under-pitching is more detrimental and perhaps leading to stalled fermentation so want to avoid that to get my final gravity as close to target as possible.

To stay relevant w/ the original thread. I upgraded from a plastic BrewDaemon to the SS brewTech earlier this year and love it for easy of clean up, no aroma carry over between batches, etc. Both were conicals so I have always bottled straight from the fermenter after 1 or 2 weeks of secondary without transfer. So far everything has been good and I expect a long period of service from the SS. At $135 it was not the most expensive piece of equipment I have ever spent on a hobby I am passionate about.

I rehydrate dry yeast in a glass measuring cup with volume marks. When I split fermenters, I just use enough water in the hydration process to hit a divisible number on the volume scale. Mix yeast thoroughly just before pitch, and pour equal amounts into each fermenter. Always worked well for me.

 

[Mad Mann]

Oh please someone justify the stainless conical…PLEASE!

3 years doing 15G in buckets…3 years trying to pull the trigger on a conical….3 years not being able to justify it…

I WANT MY CONICAL DAMN IT!

HELP ME…PLEASE…I‘M BEGGING YOU

In my opinion there are four levels of making beer... Making beer, making good beer, making really good beer and making RFG beer. SS Unitanks fall in the RFG category. Add in the temp control function and ability to more easily harvest yeast and wallah you have RFG beer that is actually saving you money

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Oh I’m very familiar with the addiction…not so much the abstinence. And I certainly want one…they’re just so freaking cool.

….I just haven’t figured out what Im going to point to 3 months down the road that will make it worth the effort to shift to conical. It’s not just the conical vs bucket..it’s then the temp control for conical…and for 15G batches you’re going to need CIP for cleaning conical….and pumps to transfer from conical,and and, and

It’s not the coin…..i just can’t figure out how Id be better off even if someone gave me conical…other than it would be VERY cool to look at

Cheers!

Just like Murph4231 and a whole lot of others out there, I've been brewing for several decades (1984) and started out with buckets then a converted half barrel. When I felt I could afford it I sprung for a stainless conical from Spike (2014). I have not ever regretted buying it. Sure my keg worked fine but the conical is so much easier to clean - those things are built just for brewing not something that was adapted. It's a big expense but it'll last forever and if you take break from brewing it'll still be worth something to someone else. A bucket, not so much. Buckets to me are a stepping stone to advancing your brewing style and experience. Not to plug Spike, but they do offer interest free payments over time and I'm sure other do to.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Also, many months down the road I haven't added a temp control or a CIP to my fermenter. I did buy the three-port top (standard now but not back then) but other than that I haven't added any big-ticket items. For cleaning you don't need the CIP. Nice feature but not needed. Search here and you'll find lots of posts on that topic.

 

[Moose_MI]

Just like Murph4231 and a whole lot of others out there, I've been brewing for several decades (1984) and started out with buckets then a converted half barrel. When I felt I could afford it I sprung for a stainless conical from Spike (2014). I have not ever regretted buying it. Sure my keg worked fine but the conical is so much easier to clean - those things are built just for brewing not something that was adapted. It's a big expense but it'll last forever and if you take break from brewing it'll still be worth something to someone else. A bucket, not so much. Buckets to me are a stepping stone to advancing your brewing style and experience. Not to plug Spike, but they do offer interest free payments over time and I'm sure other do to.

That’s awesome. Again, I think conicals are awesome and i want one and the cost isn’t why I’ve hesitated.
I dont consider conicals “advancing” my brewing. Advancing the cool factor of my set up…hell yes…and Im a big fan of being cool.
I also dont consider shifting from kits to all grain as “advancing”. It’s really more about experiencing different aspects of the hobby and process. Some do..some don’t….it doesn’t define your skill level

Live and let live..peace to all

 

[T Murph]

Moose_MI you are spot on. I have a friend who has been brewing over 30 yrs, owner of a homebrew shop and renowned homebrew book author who prefers extract over all grain for his personal brews. He has won a ton of awards using extracts. I mention him because it's not the equipment nor type of ingredients one uses that determines their advancement in this hobby, but the skills and practices they develop along the way. While some on here totally object to the use of a secondary that's their choice to limit their processes. To each their own. But rest assured a secondary fermentation is very beneficial with certain beverages. And the skill necessary to properly and safely use said secondary is indeed "advancement". Brew on friend.

 

[Bassman2003]

To me, unitanks and conicals are about convenience and pristine delivery of the finished product. You can find ways to get everything down by spending less money and be similar in quality, just more hoops to jump through. As far as yeast harvesting, I am moving to freezing yeast instead of harvesting. My brew schedule is erratic and keeping yeast in the fridge for a style I might not brew for months does not work. So I am shifting my efforts to growing up pitches.

I bring this up to say your brewing needs to determine what equipment is the best fit. Your time schedule needs to determine your approach as well. I like the idea of closing a unitank up when you pitch and not opening it until you clean it. If you have the bucks, treat yourself. You will be able to sell the thing for 30%-50% of what you paid for it some day in the future, so it is that much cheaper

 

[Dland]

A conical makes for easy trub/solids dumps & gravity samples without exposure to O2, this is good when getting the timing right for diacityl rests and spunding. Also, good for "cone to cone" fermenting, that is leaving some yeasty beer in sealed fermentor and adding new wort without unsealing it. It works great and is a heck of a lot less effort if brewing batches in succession, that would be more difficult to do well without bottom dump valve.

I'm a fan of stainless over plastic, but one can make good beer with any sanitizable container I suppose. Once plastic is scratched up, it is harder to sanitize though. I used to use glass carboys, but they have their safety issues.

I got my stainless conicals used, they are occasionally out there if one is patient and can't justify the expense of new.

 

[Brooothru]

It's said that the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

Guilty as charged, Your Honor.

I've been brewing for more than 30 years. It's a hobby, and partly an obsession. OK, maybe the other way around. Been through buckets, carboys, Better Bottles, etc., eventually progressing to SS Brew Buckets, conicals, kegmenters and a unitank. Of the stainless gear, I still use them all. Different tools for different jobs. Your first step should definitely be away from plastic and glass, and into stainless steel. The only considerations should be whether you can truthfully afford it and whether you will actually use it.

Bling is way cool. Making great beer is 'fire'. BUT. You don't make great beer simply with bling. It takes ingredients, process, sanitation, temperature control, knowledge and experience. The only way you can 'buy' your way into better beer is to find a better beer store.

I know I'm making better beer now than when I was using buckets and bottles. It's not due solely to flashey equipment, though the gear gives me a great deal of satisfaction. I don't need to justify the expense and probably would just waste time trying to. Fortunately my situation is such that I don't have to.

So simply ask yourself, can you afford it, will you use it, and will it bring you joy? If any of the answers are "no", then you probably should not. Of course you could always sell it later....

 

[T Murph]

Very well put @Brooothru very well put.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I didn't mean my words of "advancing" to be anything other than moving from one type of fermenting vessel to another. Having a shiny, expensive stainless conical doesn't make for better beer. I bought it for easier cleaning and the trying pressurized fermentations or possible adding temp control in the future. Just like others have commented great beers can be created using whatever works best. For me it was an upgrade from what I had and for the most part it hasn't changed the flavor of my beer, just made some aspects of brewing easier.

 

[monkeymath]

You don't need a bunch of shiny **** to make great beer. I fermented in plastic buckets for 20 years. Last year when I had some disposable income I bought a couple Anvil stainless fementers. My beer tastes the same. Only difference is I don't have to buy new plastic buckets every year or so.

You replaced your buckets each year?! Is that a common practice? Should I have been doing that?

(I'll come forth as a disgusting pig that's been using the same Speidel plastic fermenters for six years now.)

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

You replaced your buckets each year?! Is that a common practice? Should I have been doing that?

(I'll come forth as a disgusting pig that's been using the same Speidel plastic fermenters for six years now.)

Buckets can last a long time even if they are stained from beer. I'd recycle them if they get scratched as that could hide a possible spot for some crud. Also the top should be replaced if it's cracked - the top gasket should be replaced if it's damaged but replacing the entire cover might be best and most cost affective. Keep old buckets for cleaning purposes and just storage of cleaning items.