Brunwater profiles question (H2O newb)

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dawn_kiebawls

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I finally decided to sit down and figure out how to use BrunWater to build a profile from 100% distilled to brew a Flanders Red this weekend. When I pull up the pre determined water profiles they have a 'West Flanders' and a 'West Flanders Boiled' option. They also indicate that the 'boiled' profile is the profile once it has been 'boiled and decanted'.

So, my dumb questions is: Am I to assume that when they say 'boiled and decanted' that is the profile of the boiled/chilled wort going into the fermentor?? Or am I just completely out in the deep end here?

As I said, I've never dealt with water but am getting started to make sure this 1+ year aged beer will be worth the wait. I'm 99% sure that is what they're talking about but it seems weird they would add that to the database. On the screenshot I attached, I'm talking about lines 80/43 and 81/44

Thanks for any and all help. Cheers!
Screen Shot 2020-07-08 at 1.33.13 AM.PNG
 
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VikeMan

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I finally decided to sit down and figure out how to use BrunWater to build a profile from 100% distilled to brew a Flanders Red this weekend. When I pull up the pre determined water profiles they have a 'West Flanders' and a 'West Flanders Boiled' option. They also indicate that the 'boiled' profile is the profile once it has been 'boiled and decanted'.

So, my dumb questions is: Am I to assume that when they say 'boiled and decanted' that is the profile of the boiled/chilled wort going into the fermentor??
Boiled and decanted means the water is treated by boiling before use. This precipitates CaCO3, reducing some of the Ca and some of the HCO3. Decanting leaves the precipitate behind. It's done to reduce alkalinity.

However, if you wanted to build that profile, starting with distilled water, it would be nutz to build the regular "West Flanders" and then boil it. Just build the "West Flanders Boiled" profile from the ground up if that's what you're after.
 
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dawn_kiebawls

dawn_kiebawls

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Boiled and decanted means the water is treated by boiling before use. This precipitates CaCO3, reducing some of the Ca and some of the HCO3. Decanting leaves the precipitate behind. It's done to reduce alkalinity.

However, if you wanted to build that profile, starting with distilled water, it would be nutz to build the regular "West Flanders" and then boil it. Just build the "West Flanders Boiled" profile from the ground up if that's what you're after.
Thankyou for the help! I will go with the 'boiled' route. What would be so nuts about building the regular 'West Flanders' profile? Are there too many additions? As I've said before and I'm sure you're figuring out I know nothing about water. I was reading through the water chemistry primer @Yooper put together but wasn't sure which 'profile' to use since this isn't really a 'roasted', or a 'hoppy' beer and wasn't sure which other category would get me close to what I'm after.

Thanks again, cheers!
 

VikeMan

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I will go with the 'boiled' route. What would be so nuts about building the regular 'West Flanders' profile? Are there too many additions?
If you want to build and use the regular profile, that wouldn't be nutz, assuming you have reasons for wanting that profile.

What would be nutz would be to build the regular profile and then boil/decant it to get to the "boiled" profile. The reason it wouldn't make sense is that you can get there easier by building the "boiled" profile directly, without having to boil and decant.

I was reading through the water chemistry primer @Yooper put together but wasn't sure which 'profile' to use since this isn't really a 'roasted', or a 'hoppy' beer and wasn't sure which other category would get me close to what I'm after.
There are many approaches. One way would be to build your mash water profile to provide a little calcium and get to your target mash pH (with acid or base addition if needed), and then get to your overall desired mineral profile via kettle additions.

Regional/local profiles, like the ones you're looking at, can be useful, especially if you have a goof idea of how the local breweries are treating their water (if at all), and their mash procedures. But I wouldn't recommend feeling bound to using any predetermined profile targets.
 

mabrungard

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Vikeman did a good job. Yes, targeting a boiled profile is going to get your water concentration targets closer to a workable brewing water. The main thing to understand is that there isn't a bicarbonate target for your brewing water, that target is actually the bicarbonate content (or lack of it) that produces an acceptable mashing pH.
 
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dawn_kiebawls

dawn_kiebawls

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If you want to build and use the regular profile, that wouldn't be nutz, assuming you have reasons for wanting that profile.

What would be nutz would be to build the regular profile and then boil/decant it to get to the "boiled" profile. The reason it wouldn't make sense is that you can get there easier by building the "boiled" profile directly, without having to boil and decant.



There are many approaches. One way would be to build your mash water profile to provide a little calcium and get to your target mash pH (with acid or base addition if needed), and then get to your overall desired mineral profile via kettle additions.

Regional/local profiles, like the ones you're looking at, can be useful, especially if you have a goof idea of how the local breweries are treating their water (if at all), and their mash procedures. But I wouldn't recommend feeling bound to using any predetermined profile targets.
Thanks for the help! I've read that targeting regional profiles can be unreliable for the reasons you mentioned, I was just looking for a jumping off point. I'm glad you set me straight though, cheers!

Vikeman did a good job. Yes, targeting a boiled profile is going to get your water concentration targets closer to a workable brewing water. The main thing to understand is that there isn't a bicarbonate target for your brewing water, that target is actually the bicarbonate content (or lack of it) that produces an acceptable mashing pH.
I've decided to step away from building the exact West Flanders profile (especially the unboiled option that @VikeMan educated me on) and build a more balanced profile appropriate for the style that I found in this article, which I believe should be a sticky. After reading the article and taking into consideration what you and VikeMan said I will be using the following profile:

Calcium 53
Magnesium 3
Sodium 0
Sulfate 55
Chloride 59
Bicarbonate 0

Brunwater estimates a Mash pH of 5.28

I'm going to invest in a pH meter in the near future so I can start really dialing my process in. Thanks again for your help. Cheers!
 
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