Bru'n Water Water Profile for Saison

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shetc

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I'm starting to get the hang of using the Bru'n Water calculator as well as my pH meter. For my third attempt, I am going to brew the BCS Raison D'Saison saison recipe (pg. 207). I had a good search but I couldn't find a preferred Bru'n Water desired water profile for a saison. Anybody have a recommendation?
 

doomy86

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I would go with a yellow balanced or bitter profile depending on the amount of hops you are going to use.
 
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shetc

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I would go with a yellow balanced or bitter profile depending on the amount of hops you are going to use.
The recipe calls for 3 oz of 4% AA Hallertau for a 5 gallon batch (2 oz at 60 mins and 1 oz at flameout), to produce 27 IBU.
 

jmartie13

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+1 for yellow balanced. That's what I used for my last saison and wit. I liked em'.
 
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shetc

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+1 for yellow balanced. That's what I used for my last saison and wit. I liked em'.
Took a harder look at this discussion, and decided to create a custom water profile based on it. The calcium level is less than the sulfate level but only requires gypsum to achieve this result. Lactic acid is the main source for bringing the pH down to 5.3.

custom.png


adjustment.png
 
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shetc

shetc

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I see what you did there
 
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shetc

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Wonder if this will be the latest copy

Screenshot_20170509-133225.jpg
 

isomerization

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I've been pleased with the following profile for hoppy (e.g. fruity) saisons: 50/5/20/100/50 (Ca/Mg/Na/SO4/Cl) with a low(er) mash pH around 5.2-5.3 (~5 ml 88% lactic acid) using WLP670.
 

Falstaff

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I've read that you can use soft or hard for a saison, but it will change how it tastes, obviously.
 

CascadesBrewer

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The May/June 2017 issue of Zymurgy has an article on Saison water. Another reason to be an AHA member.
Is that the right date? I am looking at the online version. I see articles by you on water for a couple styles (Mexican Lager, NEIPA, Kolsch). I see an article in the mag about Biere de Garde, but the info on water for that style in the article is very basic.

Personally, I start with my Northern Virginia tap water and add Gypsum to boost my Sulfate up to around 170 with the goal of accentuating the dry/crisp character. There are some tables in "Water" Palmer/Kaminski that drive a lot of my initial water profile decisions. They put Saison into the same water profile as American Pale Ale and IPA, though I don't push the Sulfate of my Saison as high as I do for an IPA.
 

5SonsBrewing

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Is that the right date? I am looking at the online version. I see articles by you on water for a couple styles (Mexican Lager, NEIPA, Kolsch). I see an article in the mag about Biere de Garde, but the info on water for that style in the article is very basic.
Yep, I never saw it either. Searched for hours through all of 2017 and 2016, it must have never been published. :)
 

CascadesBrewer

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This thread (which is linked in one of the above posts) has some good info: What Saison Water Profiles Have You Had Success With?

I should probably play with lowering my Sulfate target down to around 100 ppm, but I am very happy with how my last Saison turned out which used:
Ca: 120.4 ppm, Mg:7.0 ppm, Na: 25.0 ppm, SO4: 180.5 ppm, Cl: 88.8 ppm
 

5SonsBrewing

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Someone posted a thread earlier from reddit and it said they pulled this profile from the Farmhouse Ales book? Below taken directly from Reddit. I guess what I don't understand is that you can't get total hardness of 454, I'm getting Hardness 200, Alkalinity 287 and Residual Alkalinity 240.

I do see in the link to another thread you posted that Martin said he liked that profile, but not the HCO3 of 350. hmmmm

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I want to brew a killer saison, something ala Hill Farmstead/SARA/Side Project. I know Shaun Hill is notoriously tight lipped about how he brews such killer stuff but from what I've read, the thought is that it has something to do with his well water. The SARA brewer on Brewing Network's Sour Hour last night said he doesn't do adjustments to his water but it is minerally (Capitola, CA).

Then I read in Farmhouse Ales that this is the water profile you should shoot for, which seems crazy but I'm willing to give it a go:
  • Ca-52
  • Mg-17
  • Na-35
  • SO4-107
  • Cl-20
  • HCO3-350
  • pH7.2
  • Total Hardness 454
 
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mabrungard

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You definitely won’t want to target the bicarb since you’ll want to neutralize it for brewing. The only advantage of brewing with that Farmhouse profile is that you’d have to add more lactic acid to the water and that might be a flavor benefit.

Remember, continental European brewers only brew with lactic products.
 
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