BruControl: Brewery control & automation software

[Chokpish]

This is what I got from the d-228 relay board’s data sheet;

Control signal input
High level current
[email protected] 0.4mA@5V 1.1mA@12V 2.2mA@24V
[email protected] 1.0mA@5V 2.4mA@12V 5.0mA@24V

So to answer my own question, the control output from the Mega2560 would be .001 amp, which is below the max amp draw of .020.

Makes sense?

And here’s the schematic…

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

Yes control side you look fine, the one thing that catches my eye on that datasheet is where it says the relay coil operating current at 5V is 720ma. What is not clear is if that is the total current for all 8 relays being actuated at the same time or current draw for a single relay. If its a single relay, you'll need quite a beefy 5v PSU if you intend to fire all 8 (or more) relays simultaneously.

edit: The spec sheet says 720ma "relay all action", so I'm going to interpret that as 720ma total draw of all 8 relays.

 

[Chokpish]

Yes control side you look fine, the one thing that catches my eye on that datasheet is where it says the relay coil operating current at 5V is 720ma. What is not clear is if that is the total current for all 8 relays being actuated at the same time or current draw for a single relay. If its a single relay, you'll need quite a beefy 5v PSU if you intend to fire all 8 (or more) relays simultaneously.

edit: The spec sheet says 720ma "relay all action", so I'm going to interpret that as 720ma total draw of all 8 relays.

720ma total draw is also How I see it

 

[oakbarn]

Is there a Limit on The Mega (or Grand Central) Unishield related to the number of concurrent Digital Outputs used. I know about the limitations on the VA-VD power banks but I am needing to know about the drivers to the internal relays. There is a limit of 200 ma according to the Arduino specs for total outputs (20 ma per output). How much current does each individual Relay take? I have 21 valves so there are 21 on board relays that will be used at once (I have it set where now where each valve gas either an On Output or a Off Output actives so there will be 21 Digitals outs active all the time (Valve is either On or Off and only draws current when changing so I do take that into consideration as how may are moving at a time per bank. In addition, they have either a Red or Green LED that <= 20 ma that are powered by the VA-VD banks (same circuit as the Valve Control.

 

[oakbarn]

I am trying to hook up some Valves that are powered on and powered off. They are not reverse polarity but have a Negative and two + leads. I am using a Relay to switch. When the Element is Off, it is fine, but when I turn the Element on, it pulses On then Off fairly rapidly {and the valve is moving slighly with the pulses. When I hook them up to the Mega (or Grand Central), the relay pulses on and off. I have thought it might be the relay but I changed the relay out out. Any ideas?

I found the issue. It was a Meanwell 110v to 12vdc transformer. It pulses with nothing connected when checking the power, I had a little round voltmeter on it that did not pulse. I have removed it from service.

 

[oakbarn]

Is there a Limit on The Mega (or Grand Central) Unishield related to the number of concurrent Digital Outputs used. I know about the limitations on the VA-VD power banks but I am needing to know about the drivers to the internal relays. There is a limit of 200 ma according to the Arduino specs for total outputs (20 ma per output). How much current does each individual Relay take? I have 21 valves so there are 21 on board relays that will be used at once (I have it set where now where each valve gas either an On Output or a Off Output actives so there will be 21 Digitals outs active all the time (Valve is either On or Off and only draws current when changing so I do take that into consideration as how may are moving at a time per bank. In addition, they have either a Red or Green LED that <= 20 ma that are powered by the VA-VD banks (same circuit as the Valve Control.

Bump

 

[BrunDog]

Bump

Looks like I’m behind on many of the threads here! Sorry, I have a son who plays college baseball, so the spring becomes a black-hole where all attention is directed there!

 

[Chokpish]

CIP valve manifold question: I have my valve manifold sitting underneath my HLT, with silicone hoses leading out to the Mash Tun and Kettle. I clean in place opening and closing ball valves via Brucontrol, so I will need to script that aspect soon.

2 concerns so far; first is the fact that some lines are horizontal and don’t drain very well at the end of CIP process. The second is at the various ball valves’ tri clamp interfaces were some sediments seem to aggregate , and remain trapped after CIP…

Any suggestion on a perhaps vertical valve manifold design (that could have a bottom drain)?

For the valve tri clamp interface, any idea on how to mitigate?

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

For the tri-clamp valve, you can get gaskets with a smaller opening, but only works if both fittings are same smaller diameter. https://www.glaciertanks.com/tri-clamp-silicone-gaskets-40rxpx-100-fda.html

 

[oakbarn]

For the tri-clamp valve, you can get gaskets with a smaller opening, but only works if both fittings are same smaller diameter. https://www.glaciertanks.com/tri-clamp-silicone-gaskets-40rxpx-100-fda.html

https://www.amazon.com/LifCratms-Sa...tri+clamp+silicone+gasket,aps,144&sr=8-8&th=1

 

[oakbarn]

I had my latest batch of 1-wire probe assemblies (1 probe per meter with 5m lead, 9m total length) made with the individual probe addresses enumerated, being able to statically assign 1-wire addresses would be really nice! View attachment 792237View attachment 792237

BUMP!!!!! We need this.

 

[jayt70]

Hmm, it looks like that should be working ok. Have you tried a different pin on the board to rule it out? Also, what firmware are you running?

I had to travel and I'm just getting back to this. I'm running firmware version 45 on Brucontrol 1.1. I changed the pin from pin 5 to pin 26 and am continuing to have the same problems with PID control and Hysteresis control not changing the output. Duty Cycle continues to work. All of the physical parts are working and the various pump relays are working fine, so it seems like a software issues and I'm just a loss for what to try next. If there are any suggestions they would be most appreciated!

Attached is the latest screenshot showing Input above target for the PID block with the output remaining at 255 (and has been for 5 minutes).

One other observation: Regardless of Target Value (can be +/- 10000) toggling "Reversed" will either have output at 255 (Reversed OFF) or 0 (Reversed ON).

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

Try increasing your calc and output times to 3 and 3. Also, can you specifically pull the firmware revision letter? O is the latest revision in the 45 generation and is what you should be running.

 

[jayt70]

Try increasing your calc and output times to 3 and 3. Also, can you specifically pull the firmware revision letter? O is the latest revision in the 45 generation and is what you should be running.

Looks like I'm running 45O and the change in calc/output times didn't change the result unfortunately. Closing and Re-opening the Brucontrol program, however, did result in the output changing to the desired output.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

Ok, so both pins you have tried are PWM outputs, and per the firmware notes will output as PWM:
"PID and Deadband devices on pins with both Digital (D) and PWM Output (P) will use PWM Output."

Try using a pin without PWM output like 5, 18, 19, or 23 and see if that fixes the issue.

 

[jayt70]

Ok, so both pins you have tried are PWM outputs, and per the firmware notes will output as PWM:
"PID and Deadband devices on pins with both Digital (D) and PWM Output (P) will use PWM Output."

Try using a pin without PWM output like 5, 18, 19, or 23 and see if that fixes the issue.

Pin 5 was the original one I tried for this reason and no difference. Does the PID calculation occur within the ESP32 board or within the Brucontrol software? Since it works correctly when restarting the Brucontrol software, it seems like maybe it's just not updating/refreshing properly on each cycle?

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

Oh sorry, yeah 5 should be the pin you want. The PID calculation occurs in the ESP32. Can you show me your config for the temperature sensor that is being referenced in the PID config, 'RTD Temp Bottom'? I'm interested in any calibrations you have on that temp input as well. Also, please post any calibrations you have on the PID as well.

 

[jayt70]

Oh sorry, yeah 5 should be the pin you want. The PID calculation occurs in the ESP32. Can you show me your config for the temperature sensor that is being referenced in the PID config, 'RTD Temp Bottom'? I'm interested in any calibrations you have on that temp input as well. Also, please post any calibrations you have on the PID as well.

NP. Thanks. Please see attached.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

Hmm, I don't see anything specifically out of the ordinary there. I'm going to guess that there is no scripting in play here, but there is something definitely messing with the PID calculation. I suppose its possible there was a bad firmware flash, so you could try a re-flash OTA and see if it solves the issue. Also, not directly related, but your control wiring to the relay looks to be backwards. Terminal 3 on the SSR should be the + and terminal 4 should be -. Again, I don't think that is the root of the issue, but I think its worth noting. If a re-flash doesn't resolve the issue, I'll have to defer to @BrunDog for more advanced debugging.

 

[oakbarn]

I am having an issue where I have two 12 vdc latching Switches to control 2 Gas Valves.

When the Ports are "Off" I am getting a little feedback on the LED (glow very dim). Any ideas as to the cause? I can hook up to a 12 v power supply directly (Mega out of the wiring) and no feedback.

 

[jayt70]

Hmm, I don't see anything specifically out of the ordinary there. I'm going to guess that there is no scripting in play here, but there is something definitely messing with the PID calculation. I suppose its possible there was a bad firmware flash, so you could try a re-flash OTA and see if it solves the issue. Also, not directly related, but your control wiring to the relay looks to be backwards. Terminal 3 on the SSR should be the + and terminal 4 should be -. Again, I don't think that is the root of the issue, but I think its worth noting. If a re-flash doesn't resolve the issue, I'll have to defer to @BrunDog for more advanced debugging.

Well, I tried two things with no improvement:
1. Reflashed existing ESP32 - Same Results (PID not updating)
2. Flashed a brand new ESP32 - Same Results (PID not updating)

@BrunDog Hoping you have some ideas.

@RiverCityBrewer Thank you so much for the ideas/attempts so far!

 

[oakbarn]

I am having an issue where I have two 12 vdc latching Switches to control 2 Gas Valves.

When the Ports are "Off" I am getting a little feedback on the LED (glow very dim). Any ideas as to the cause? I can hook up to a 12 v power supply directly (Mega out of the wiring) and no feedback.

Check grounding!! Different grounds were the issue.

 

[oakbarn]

Yesterday, all my connected devices except for a serial one disconnected and will not reconnect.

There were two Mega(s) and and ESP 32.

The router is connected to other devices (like a network printer) and those have no problems. I have tried the reset and have started to flash one of the Mega(s) but when I try to connect via the USB I get a Windows Error 43 where it says USB Descriptor failed. Is the Mega toast?

 

[oakbarn]

I re flashed the ESP 32 and had no success getting it to connect.
Tried a different IP. No success.
Tried a different Router, No Success.
Held down the Reset on the ESP 32. No Success.


Are there any settings or files I can delete in BruControl to see if it will reset any connections?

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

Can you ping the IP of the ESP32 from a computer other than BC?

 

[oakbarn]

I think it was a Router issue. I bought a new ESP 32 and did some resets on the router.

It now connects (new ESP 32). I will check the old one later today.

I am going to replace the Mega 2560 on the unishield as it will not connect via serial so I can never do a future firmware update.

One odd thing.

The IP address for the ESP 32 is set to

192.168.0.169

The adress on the router when connected varies like it is set to DHCP but the ESP is set to static.

If I reserve the 192.162.0.169 on the router, the ESP 32 will not connect. Got rid of the reservation, and connects fine.

I have seen
192.168.0.167
192.168.0.90
192.168.0.97

For the connection on the router and all connected to BruControl.

Something funky happens to the MAC also when I try to reserve the IP.

 

[oakbarn]

A pix of router and ESP

32

 

[oakbarn]

I am soldering my SM6004 flow meter circuits (finally).

Any comments on setting them up and any scripts on totalizing.

I have two SM6004 so I can measure the Sparge Water and then later the final volume to the Fermentor. I may move it in the manifold so I can measure Wort to the Brew Kettle from the MLT instead of Sparge. (I have a spare one but may not fit in the manifold).

A pix of router and ESPView attachment 823309 32

The BruControl W-10 is PC!. The Wifi does not even show up!

 

[oakbarn]

I just replaced the Mega 2560 on my UNIshield. While I had it out of its cabinet, I want to wire some ports for future use. It is hard to wire in the cabinet. The wires will be capped on the future device side and connected to the Pins on my Unishield.

Before anyone jumps, I KNOW that you can ONLY use either the P Pin or the D Pin on the Unishield.

Since I do not know what type of device could be connected in the future,
I would prefer to wire BOTH the P and D Pins, (Knowing I can only use ONE.

As an example, my Pins 7-4 (Port 11) is free. In the Interface Wiring Map, Port 11 is DOP (Firmware 46).

I want to run a Red Wire to
7-4P and a Blue Wire to 7-4D.


In the future, I I hooked up a small DC motor to Drop some Hops, I could create an Digital Output Element on Port 11 and wire it to the Blue wire. (7-4)


On the other hand, I might buy a KLD 20 Proportional Valve

or if I needed one wire probe, I could hook up to the Red Wire. (7-4P).

Again, I KNOW I cannot use both the D and P Pins on the same Port, I would only use one or the other and leave the other wire unconnected to anything.

I am not talking about hooking up both, but only One. The other wire would be left capped.



Any thing wrong with this other than the caveat about using the P OR D Pin?

 

[BrunDog]

Well, I tried two things with no improvement:
1. Reflashed existing ESP32 - Same Results (PID not updating)
2. Flashed a brand new ESP32 - Same Results (PID not updating)

@BrunDog Hoping you have some ideas.

@RiverCityBrewer Thank you so much for the ideas/attempts so far!

Sorry, just jumping into the convo... generally there is no need to reflash firmware. I know its a common debug method but in BC it either works or it doesn't.

I recommend v46 of the FW... it is stable at this point, and you should use the most recent version of BC to go with it.

Let's break it down in steps. In order for the PID to work, but its requisite inputs and outputs need to work first:
1. The temp probe works correctly? Meaning it changes with temperature as it should?
2. The output driven by the PID works correctly? Is it a digital (binary) device or proportional (PWM/Analog) device? If you set up a manual Digital Output (if binary) or PWM Output (if proportional), does the system respond correctly when you manually turn this output on (meaning the temperature climbs or falls correctly)?
3. What happens when this PID does not "work"? The temperature keeps climbing? That said, is this for heating or cooling?

 

[jayt70]

Sorry, just jumping into the convo... generally there is no need to reflash firmware. I know its a common debug method but in BC it either works or it doesn't.

I recommend v46 of the FW... it is stable at this point, and you should use the most recent version of BC to go with it.

Let's break it down in steps. In order for the PID to work, but its requisite inputs and outputs need to work first:
1. The temp probe works correctly? Meaning it changes with temperature as it should?
2. The output driven by the PID works correctly? Is it a digital (binary) device or proportional (PWM/Analog) device? If you set up a manual Digital Output (if binary) or PWM Output (if proportional), does the system respond correctly when you manually turn this output on (meaning the temperature climbs or falls correctly)?
3. What happens when this PID does not "work"? The temperature keeps climbing? That said, is this for heating or cooling?

Thank you. I will try the newest firmware. Here are the answers to your questions:
1. Yes, it works great and matches various calibration temps
2. The output of pin 5 is going to a solid state relay that is switching a 5500W heating element. The relay and element work fine as it heats (and shuts off) when I toggle it with the Duty Cycle Block. The SSR also responds appropriately based on the PID stated output (which is only ever 0 or 255 based on initial reading and really never changes regardless of setpoint or temp input). I tried utilizing a hysteresis block and had similar issues to the PID block.
3. Yes, it either never heats (if the output is zero when I open the Brucontrol program) or never stops heating (if the output is 255 when I open the Brucontrol program)

 

[BrunDog]

Thank you. I will try the newest firmware. Here are the answers to your questions:
1. Yes, it works great and matches various calibration temps
2. The output of pin 5 is going to a solid state relay that is switching a 5500W heating element. The relay and element work fine as it heats (and shuts off) when I toggle it with the Duty Cycle Block. The SSR also responds appropriately based on the PID stated output (which is only ever 0 or 255 based on initial reading and really never changes regardless of setpoint or temp input). I tried utilizing a hysteresis block and had similar issues to the PID block.
3. Yes, it either never heats (if the output is zero when I open the Brucontrol program) or never stops heating (if the output is 255 when I open the Brucontrol program)

Let's get you updated to the latest FW and SW... upgrade to 46F and the 1.1.0.22.

Also, feel free to send us your configuration file.

 

[jayt70]

Let's get you updated to the latest FW and SW... upgrade to 46F and the 1.1.0.22.

Also, feel free to send us your configuration file.

Unfortunately no change with 46F and V 1.1 Build 22. Attached screenshot shows output of 255 regardless if target is 10,000 or -10,000. Also attached are configuration files. Thanks.

 

[BrunDog]

Ok will take a look!

 

[BrunDog]

Was able to replicate the problem... not sure why its happening yet, but will get it fixed ASAP.

 

[BrunDog]

OK figured out the issue... when the selected RTD input pin also has analog input capability, it misreads the input value. On the ESP32, those are only GPIO pins 32 and 33... and @jayt70 is using 33. Minor fix in the FW, but will get it done and posted. In the meantime, don't use pins 32 or 33 for the RTD input for the ESP32. For the MEGA, don't use pins 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69 and on the Grand Central don't use pins 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74.

 

[BrunDog]

Posted v46G for ESP32. Will post for MEGA and GC soon. This fixes the above mentioned issue (RTD on analog-input capable pin).

Rare issue, but still kinda surprised we hadn't seen it until now. It's existed from the very beginning, and we just found it. Anyway, thanks to @jayt70 for his patience and sending in his config file!

 

[oakbarn]

Where can I find the Basic Computer Requirements for BruControl. I looked at brucontrol.com and this thread, but could not find them.
I am going to buy a small backup computer as I am dead in the water now with my BruControl Computer. I will use it until I get my computer fixed.

I want it to run well so I would like both Minimum and recommended details.

CPU?
RAM? (Is more better or a waste of money? for BruControl)
HD Capacity (A lot of the less $$$ are only 256 gb)

I only plan to add
Notepad++
Chrome
AVG Anti Virus
Malware Bytes
NodeJs
along with BruControl.

This Computer will only be used for BruControl and Node Red (for use with BruControl)

 

[Chokpish]

NTC 10k Probes Calibration

I am using a few NTC 10k probes and throughout my brewery and I find them unreliable. I find myself constantly calibrating them, adding various offsets at start of each brewday. The max total offset range is anywhere from +10 to minus 10.

One of those probes is the same as used with my BCS-482. My BCS-482 as been working reliably so far.

Could this issue be linked to some EMF pollution? I find it quite difficult separating my DC and AC wires in my control panel..

 

[Tartan1]

NTC 10k Probes Calibration

I am using a few NTC 10k probes and throughout my brewery and I find them unreliable. I find myself constantly calibrating them, adding various offsets at start of each brewday. The max total offset range is anywhere from +10 to minus 10.

One of those probes is the same as used with my BCS-482. My BCS-482 as been working reliably so far.

Could this issue be linked to some EMF pollution? I find it quite difficult separating my DC and AC wires in my control panel

I've used these with success for other EMI issues https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005101981255.html