Brown Porter with no roast flavor?

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fuzzy2133

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Good idea or not I would like to make a brown porter with no roast (or minimal) aroma or flavor. I need help from brewers here that know the grain flavors better than I do.

Trying to keep things simple I found and started tweaking FATC1TY's recipe for a Chocolate Oatmel Porter.

So far this is what I have:

Recipe: Cocoa Oat Brown Porter
Batch size: 6 gallons
TYPE: All Grain

Ingredients:

9 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) 75.0 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) 8.3 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L 8.3 %
1 lbs Pale Chocolate Malt (200.0 SRM) 8.3 %

0.60 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 17.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min 9.3 IBUs
1.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)
2.20 oz Dutch Cocoa Powder (Boil 10.0 mins)

British Ale (White Labs #WLP005)
2.00 Items Vanilla Bean (Secondary 2.0 weeks)

Mash Schedule: BIAB, Full Body Mash at 153 for 60min
Total Grain Weight: 12 lbs


I am open to all thoughts even if changing to a caramel, nutty or toffee like flavor would be a better choice.
 

motorneuron

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I guess my confusion is, what do you want a porter to be if not a somewhat roasty dark brown ale? It seems like if it's not those things, it isn't porter. That is fine, of course--you don't need to make a porter. So maybe what I want from you is a positive description of what you DO want from the beer. (I'm especially puzzled by the last line: as far as I know, if it's not a little roasty, and it's not caramel, nutty, or toffee, but it's still brown, there's almost no flavor left that it could be. Toast, maybe?)

All of that said, I think this could be a good beer. I'm guessing it will be like a chocolate/oat/vanilla brown ale, with a bit of a toast/roast flavor and some nutty notes.
 
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fuzzy2133

fuzzy2133

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I am trying to build/make something that has flavors more familiar to my friends and family that is not a strong roasted porter or stout.

motorneuron you have a valid point a brown ale flavor profile could be the better direction. I want to avoid a creating an overly complex flavor soup.
 

And1129

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I don't think you should have chocolate malt in there at all if you don't want the roast flavor. I know plenty of brown ales that do not have that and are quite nice; i'm drinking one right now: Anchor's Brekle's Brown, it's delicious. Anyway, chocolate malt is one of the more intense roasted malts; in fact, i think i read somewhere that it's even more intense than black malt... i'll have to check that. However, if you don't want the roasty flavor, i'd go with a darker crystal malt like C-120 instead of adding chocolate malt. The chocolate malt WOULD be more appropriate in a roasty porter.

-By the way, hello fellow San Jose brewer! ;)
 

Calder

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I don't have any Roast, or Black in my Porters, and I think I make killer Porters (I really don't like the roasted flavors from those malts). I like lots of Chocolate and dark crystal, or Special B.

I think you are on the right lines. I have to question the oats, Cocoa, and Vanilla. They may make a great beer, but it ain't going to be a traditional Porter.
 
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fuzzy2133

fuzzy2133

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Reading through grain descriptions it sounds like taking out all roast may not be possible.

Thanks for the heads up on the chocolate malt And1129.

Would carmel/crystal 120 and special B have complimentary flavors (would this be too much Carmel flavor)? I really want to keep the grain bill simple.

EDIT: Is Victory Malt an option rather then Maris Otter?
 

motorneuron

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Victory malt is not a base malt; it's a character malt. You can use a lot of it (say, 20%), but you'd get a real toast flavor from that much. If you want just a more "malty" overall flavor, use Vienna or Munich as your base malt. (All of that said, it is possible to make beers with 100% toasted malts, such as amber or brown. But those malts are not commonly sold, and it's also not common to make beer that way. These days, more ordinary base malt + character is the way people usually go.)

C120 and Special B are somewhat different, but not hugely. If you're using two crystals, you might want to use C40/60 for a caramel note, and Special B for more dark fruit, raisin, burnt sugar sorts of flavors.
 
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fuzzy2133

fuzzy2133

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Yea thats what I get for not checking the base malts. Sounds like I might need to scale down to 1 gallon and attempt a couple ideas.

How does this sound for 6 gallons?
9lbs Vienna Malt
1lb C40
1lb C60
8oz De-bittered chocolate malt for color (I know this will give some aroma and flavor)

EDIT: LHBS likes to sell special grains by the pound.
 

And1129

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That looks pretty good for a brown porter recipe. The crystals will add a nice malty flavor and middle body. You may also consider adding another specialty grain like victory, biscuit, brown, or honey malt for added special character if you want it. Only about 0.5 to 1 pound would go a long way.

*Sending you a PM.
 
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fuzzy2133

fuzzy2133

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Thanks for the help this is what I settled on.
Recipe for a 3 gal test batch. I upped the grain amounts since things seem to taste weak when beer smith scales a recipe (it could just be me). Switched to Fuggles for the finish since I have them in the freezer.

5lbs Vienna Malt
10oz C40
10oz C60
4oz De-bittered Chocolate Malt (or is it De-husked?)

0.3oz Northern Brewer @ 60min
0.5oz Fuggles @ 0min with a 5min steep before cooling

WLP005 British Ale

Mash 153 for 60 min (BIAB Full Body)
Total Boil time 60min
EST OG 1.055
EST FG 1.016
 
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fuzzy2133

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Update for any who find this or followed along.

First thanks for the help with this guys. Even the LHBS liked the sound of this recipe for a brown porter.

Brewed on March 9th 2014.

My numbers:
2.5 gallons in Fermentor
Measured Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.022 SG
Yeast: 2 Vials WLP005
Primary for 2 weeks @ 64F to 66F. Started fermentation at 64F then let rise to 66F. Once krusen fell brought temp up to 70F over 2 days

It has come out good. Very light roast (hardly noticeable) with good brown porter/brown ale flavor. Mouth feel seems a little on the thin side. No head retention but no big surprise with the simple grain bill.

Minor changes for a 3gallon batch:
Reduce the C60 down to 8oz
Up De-bittered Chocolate to 6oz-8oz
Add 4oz-6oz flaked oats

Cheers
 

Yooper

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I'm glad it turned out well!

I love brown porter (as opposed to robust porter, which is roasty), and THE character malt in a brown porter is brown malt. Check out Jamil Z's recipe in Brewing Classic Styles for an awesome brown porter. It has light caramel and toasty flavors with a tiny bit of roast. It's like a Southern English brown, but with a tiny bit of "porter" flavor. I think it would definitely fit the bill for your tastes.
 
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