Brooklyn Brewery Spotted Pig Bitter

[powermd]

I tried this on a recent visit to NYC and loved it. Now it's time for a clone.

Based on Brooklyn's web site we know the following:
Style: Best Bitter
Malts: British Pale, Crystal, Aromatic, Caramalt
Hops: Challenger, Aurora, Willamette
Yeast: Our House Ale Yeast
Alcohol by Volume: 5%
Original Gravity: 13.3° Plato (1.054)

I posted a request for info/ideas in the yeast forum, but no replies.

Most reviews of SPB indicate citrusy flavors, and this is confirmed in a blog post from the brewer suggesting the source of the orange notes is in fact the yeast. Immediately this made me think of Conan, so I decided to go with Imperial Yeast A24 (for Conan, plus a little added fun).

I'm not feeling it to go all grain here, so this will be a PARTIAL mash brew. Here is my tentative recipe:

Batch size: 6 gallons
Grain bill:
Maris Otter LME 2.5 lb
Maris Otter pale malt 5 lb
Caramalt 12 oz (8%)
Crystal 10L 12 oz (8%)
Aromatic malt 5.6 oz (3.7%)

Hops
Aurora 1 oz 50 min
Challenger 1 oz 5 min
Challenger 1 oz 0 min
Willamette 1 oz 0 min

Yeast:
Imperial A24 - 1 pkg in 1 L starter est 267B cells

Est OG 1.054
IBU: 29.8
Color: 7.3 SRM
Est ABV: 5.3%

Naturally I would appreciate comments!

I plan on brewing this in about two weeks. I'm waiting on a new kettle from Spke Brewing.

 

[Gonefishin]

Interested in this brew. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[powermd]

I'm struggling with the % Munich. This is a fairly yellow-orange colored beer. Given the moderate gravity, I'm thinking I should bring it down to no more than 10-15%. Currently it's about 25% (half of Munich LME is actual Munich, the rest is probably pale malt).

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

There's a lot going on in your recipe. Appears to be a malt bomb. I recommend upping your IBUs to about 40. The yeast, i've never used, but i doubt it will give you the citrus your looking with that hop bill.

Your between an ESB and PA. Your hops like an ESB recipe (but up the IBU's) and your yeast a NE IPA

If your aiming for an ESB, maybe go with 10% 50-60 L Crystal, cut the munich, up the IBU's to 40 to 45 and change the yeast to something British like WLP002.

If it's a Pale ale, change the hops to citrus (C hops), up the IBU's, cut way back on the munich.

 

[powermd]

Have you tried this beer?

Remember, it's a clone attempt.

I don't want to go with a British yeast because this beer seems to lack the usual estery notes you get in a pub ale. The fruit tones are more orangy-citrus. As for the hops, these are what the brewer says he used. This is an exceedingly well balanced, smooth drinking beer.

I don't recall this being a particularly bitter beer, so I'm reluctant to go over 30 IBU. Most pub ales are pretty low in IBU.

Have you brewed with Conan? It can be pretty dominating and peachy if you ferment on the low temp side. The brewer said the fruity notes come from the yeast. Do you know any other non-British yeasts that give flavor that could be described as orangy?

I am going to cut back the Munich to 2 lbs, and up the MO to 6 lb 14 oz, so now the Munich contribution should be about 10%.

There's a lot going on in your recipe. Appears to be a malt bomb. I recommend upping your IBUs to about 40. The yeast, i've never used, but i doubt it will give you the citrus your looking with that hop bill.

Your between an ESB and PA. Your hops like an ESB recipe (but up the IBU's) and your yeast a NE IPA

If your aiming for an ESB, maybe go with 10% 50-60 L Crystal, cut the munich, up the IBU's to 40 to 45 and change the yeast to something British like WLP002.

If it's a Pale ale, change the hops to citrus (C hops), up the IBU's, cut way back on the munich.

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

Never brewed with this yeast but here is the description

"A24 Dry Hop - Dry Hop is a blend of A20 Citrus and A04 Barbarian. When this blend goes to work on your hoppy beer, the hop aroma blows up. The combination of these strains produces amazing aromas of citrus, peach and apricot that will accentuate your IPA, pale ale, and any other hop driven beer"


I guess I don't see enough hop to enable the yeast to pop.

As for alternative hops, I guess I see those in your recipe as more neutral to earthy and herbal. If they don't get you what you are looking for, you might consider Amarillo, Citra, and a little Cascade as late additions (Whirlpool).

Have you tried this beer?

Remember, it's a clone attempt.

I don't want to go with a British yeast because this beer seems to lack the usual estery notes you get in a pub ale. The fruit tones are more orangy-citrus. As for the hops, these are what the brewer says he used. This is an exceedingly well balanced, smooth drinking beer.

I don't recall this being a particularly bitter beer, so I'm reluctant to go over 30 IBU. Most pub ales are pretty low in IBU.

Have you brewed with Conan? It can be pretty dominating and peachy if you ferment on the low temp side. The brewer said the fruity notes come from the yeast. Do you know any other non-British yeasts that give flavor that could be described as orangy?

I am going to cut back the Munich to 2 lbs, and up the MO to 6 lb 14 oz, so now the Munich contribution should be about 10%.

 

[powermd]

I guess I'm not being clear, I'm looking for the citrusy elements to come from the yeast, not the hops. I know what citrusy hops smell and taste like, and that's not what I'm going for. This is not an IPA. The experience I have brewing with Conan suggests that you can get some of this from the yeast, and the brewers notes suggest that is the origin of the citrus flavors in his beer. I went with A24 instead of A20 just because it sounds more interesting. Could really go either way. Or a different way... if someone has an in on Brooklyn Brewery's "House Ale Yeast".

Never brewed with this yeast but here is the description

"A24 Dry Hop - Dry Hop is a blend of A20 Citrus and A04 Barbarian. When this blend goes to work on your hoppy beer, the hop aroma blows up. The combination of these strains produces amazing aromas of citrus, peach and apricot that will accentuate your IPA, pale ale, and any other hop driven beer"


I guess I don't see enough hop to enable the yeast to pop.

As for alternative hops, I guess I see those in your recipe as more neutral to earthy and herbal. If they don't get you what you are looking for, you might consider Amarillo, Citra, and a little Cascade as late additions (Whirlpool).

 

[bierhaus15]

I've brewed with the Brooklyn yeast a few times and still have some on a slant, although I haven't used it ages. They once claimed they never re-cultured their yeast. Regardless, it is a pretty clean strain, similar to 1056, maybe a touch fruitier. I never got anything remotely citrusy from it, although Challenger hops can impart a strong orange-marmalade/spicy character.

A decent sub would be something along the lines of 1272.

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

Oh, I get it .... you said would appreciate comments but it seems you only want confirming comments ... good luck because your desired outcome and your recipe are not aligned

I guess I'm not being clear, I'm looking for the citrusy elements to come from the yeast, not the hops. I know what citrusy hops smell and taste like, and that's not what I'm going for. This is not an IPA. The experience I have brewing with Conan suggests that you can get some of this from the yeast, and the brewers notes suggest that is the origin of the citrus flavors in his beer. I went with A24 instead of A20 just because it sounds more interesting. Could really go either way. Or a different way... if someone has an in on Brooklyn Brewery's "House Ale Yeast".

 

[powermd]

Oh, I get it .... you said would appreciate comments but it seems you only want confirming comments ... good luck because your desired outcome and your recipe are not aligned

No need for that snippy attitude. This is a discussion about beer, not the election.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the actual beer doesn't contain the hops you recommend. Thanks for your help.

 

[powermd]

I've brewed with the Brooklyn yeast a few times and still have some on a slant, although I haven't used it ages. They once claimed they never re-cultured their yeast. Regardless, it is a pretty clean strain, similar to 1056, maybe a touch fruitier. I never got anything remotely citrusy from it, although Challenger hops can impart a strong orange-marmalade/spicy character.

A decent sub would be something along the lines of 1272.

Interesting. Maybe I'll add an extra ounce of Challenger at 0 min, and take a look at 1272.

 

[madscientist451]

I'm thinking they may using WLP 025 Southwold? Unfortunately its not available right now. Do they sell growlers of the Spotted Pig Bitter? Getting some of the commercial example fresh and growing up the yeast would be a good start for making a clone.
I'd also take another look at the grain bill. Using Marris Otter extract would be ok,
but then I'd steep the specific specialty malts they use.
I'd use British Crystal, Aromatic and Caramalt; it would take a few attempts (or many attempts) to get the flavor profile you are trying to match.
I'm skeptical using all extract will get you anywhere near a clone.

 

[powermd]

I'm thinking they may using WLP 025 Southwold? Unfortunately its not available right now. Do they sell growlers of the Spotted Pig Bitter? Getting some of the commercial example fresh and growing up the yeast would be a good start for making a clone.
I'd also take another look at the grain bill. Using Marris Otter extract would be ok,
but then I'd steep the specific specialty malts they use.
I'd use British Crystal, Aromatic and Caramalt; it would take a few attempts (or many attempts) to get the flavor profile you are trying to match.
I'm skeptical using all extract will get you anywhere near a clone.

I'm already reconsidering going at least partial mash... to include the specialty grains. The description of WLP 025 sounds great... i only it were available.

 

[powermd]

I've updated the original recipe to make it a partial mash. I'm not sure where I got the idea that Munich was in this beer, so I rechecked all the sources and couldn't find it. So no more Munich. I'm still pretty undecided on the yeast. Maybe I'll just go with A20 (Conan) and ferment at 64F.

 

[madscientist451]

So what percentage or amounts of the specialty grains are you going to use for the first try? I've never had the beer, but I'd guess less than 10% of each?
Also, is the Spotted Pig cask conditioned?

 

[powermd]

So what percentage or amounts of the specialty grains are you going to use for the first try? I've never had the beer, but I'd guess less than 10% of each?
Also, is the Spotted Pig cask conditioned?

The updated recipe includes the percentages. Aromatic is less than 5%, Caramalt and crystal are about 8%.

Yes... Spotted Pig is indeed cask conditioned. And they use a different yeast for the cask conditioning step!

I don't have a cask setup, but I could keg condition.

 

[powermd]

Update:

21 days in, and I've transferred to keg. Here's where I'm at.

Final recipe:
Maris Otter Pale Malt 87.1%
TF Caramalt 5.2%
Crystal 20L 5.2%
Aromatic Malt 2.4%

Used Kal's Boddington's water profile
Mashed for 90 min @ 152°F, pH 5.2
Batch Sparge
Boiled 90 min
1 oz Aurora @ 50 min
1 oz Challenger @ 5 min
1 oz Challenger @ 0 min
1 oz Willamette @ 0 min
Whirlpool at 180F x 20 min

6.5 gallon batch
OG 1.054
Est IBU 33
Est Color 7.5 SRM
1.5L starter with 1 can Imperial Barbarian (not A24 Dry Hop)
Manual aeration with a rotary aerator.

7 days at 64F, 7 days at 68F.
1.5 oz blood orange zest soaked in vodka overnight
7 more days at 68F
FG 1.0095

Taste is light bodied, malty, with a hint of orange. Pretty much on target for what I was looking for. We'll have to wait for conditioning and a bit more age to see if it gets there. Have to say I'm surprised at the degree of attenuation I got from Conan. These beers usually finish around 1.014 at best. Last, I'm very happy with the performance of my new Brewbucket with the FTS. Easy to set up, maintain, and break down. I used CO2 from a tap @ 3 psi to push the beer out using the blow off tube (which had been soaking in Star San the whole time). It was a bit tedious holding the tap firm to the 1/2" silicone tubing, but it worked, and made for minimal contact with air.