British Golden Ale

[Rob2010SS]

Doing our first ever golden ale. We were looking for something quick and easy to pump out to release with a Hazy IPA. As we've never done one, and from what I've read, there's a lot of ambiguity out there on what makes a good one, looking for a quick sanity check. I don't want an english IPA and I think that's really what I'm looking to confirm here. Thoughts on this?

Title: Golden Ale

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: British Golden Ale
Boil Time: 30 min
Batch Size: 43 gallons (ending kettle volume)
Boil Size: 44 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.045
Efficiency: 77% (ending kettle)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 0.97

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.046
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 4.64%
IBU (tinseth): 38.26
SRM (morey): 4.57
Mash pH: 5.35

FERMENTABLES:
46 lb - Maris Otter Pale (67.3%)
15 lb - Pale 2-Row (22%)
6 lb - White Wheat (8.8%)
1.3 lb - BEST Acidulated (1.9%)

HOPS:
10 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 29.21
2 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 1.52
4 oz - Target, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 4.1
8 oz - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 170 °F, IBU: 3.43

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - English Ale Yeast S-04
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
Fermentation Temp: 60 F
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

PRIMING:
Method: co2
CO2 Level: 2.4 Volumes

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: 31514
Ca2: 47
Mg2: 10
Na: 4
Cl: 59
SO4: 77
HCO3: 0

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Start Temp: 164 F, Target Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 23 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.35 qt/lb
Starting Grain Temp: 68 °F

 

[AlexKay]

Mandarina seems somehow out of place for a British beer. (It's also not my favorite hop at all.) If you're looking for something fruity, Harlequin is lovely.

 

[Rob2010SS]

That’s kind of what I was talking about with the ambiguity surrounding the style. The guidelines say typically English ingredients but as of late, citrus forward hops are more prevalent. So we went back and forth on how to approach it. We decided to use European hops. Both challenger and target have citrus characteristics and the Mandarina does as well. My thoughts were that the challenger and target would bring traditional uk hop character with some citrus and the Mandarina would just amplify the citrus a bit.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Mandarina seems somehow out of place for a British beer. (It's also not my favorite hop at all.) If you're looking for something fruity, Harlequin is lovely.

I looked at harlequin but it’s actually not available at the moment through Yakima

 

[AlexKay]

That’s kind of what I was talking about with the ambiguity surrounding the style. The guidelines say typically English ingredients but as of late, citrus forward hops are more prevalent. So we went back and forth on how to approach it. We decided to use European hops. Both challenger and target have citrus characteristics and the Mandarina does as well. My thoughts were that the challenger and target would bring traditional uk hop character with some citrus and the Mandarina would just amplify the citrus a bit.

Sounds like solid reasoning. I don't like Mandarina ... but maybe that's just me. Amarillo?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Sounds like solid reasoning. I don't like Mandarina ... but maybe that's just me. Amarillo?

Can I ask why you don't like Mandarina?

 

[Deadalus]

I know the five minutes additions are kind of popular and I have only played around with them a little bit however I concentrate mainly on using whirlpooling as far as aroma. I think just considering your whirlpool hops, that you don't have enough for aroma. I had to scale your recipe to my own volume but I think perhaps you don't have enough. I whirpooled two ounces of Fuggles and an ounce of Mosaic (@155F, 30 minutes) in my own recipe and I felt that the aroma needed a boost. I also feel that 170 is a little too hot for whirlpooling in my own opinion. I typically do 165F at 20 minutes but I was experimenting here on the cooler side. I will also mention that I used a hop spider, a big one but probably a minor reduction there. I'm going to rebrew my recipe again soon and I won't be using the spider but I plan to up the hops about 25-50%. Could be that I needed more time at 155F as well.

First Gold is a UK hop with citrus character too, mild to moderately so I'd say. Might be hard to source though, I had to look around for it last time I purchased it. I've used it several times in Best Bitters and I like it.

Also, perhaps slightly too bitter not considering the whirlpool hops? Maybe target it around 30 IBUs without the whirlpool addition. Looking for a little smoother/milder than a bitter. I was about 28 IBUs without my whirlpool hops and thought the bittering was just right but I was lacking aroma.

 

[DoctorDuvel]

Can I ask why you don't like Mandarina?

I'm also not a big fan of Mandarina. It's too orange-y or something, which I guess is the point. Same reason i wasn't crazy about Citra when it first came on the scene, but it has changed/developed (for the better). I prefer more grapefruity hops in terms of citrus. But maybe using Mandarina in combo with the English hops will be good. I once used Challenger with Amarillo and loved it.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I know the five minutes additions are kind of popular and I have only played around with them a little bit however I concentrate mainly on using whirlpooling as far as aroma. I think just considering your whirlpool hops, that you don't have enough for aroma. I had to scale your recipe to my own volume but I think perhaps you don't have enough. I whirpooled two ounces of Fuggles and an ounce of Mosaic (@155F, 30 minutes) in my own recipe and I felt that the aroma needed a boost. I also feel that 170 is a little too hot for whirlpooling in my own opinion. I typically do 165F at 20 minutes but I was experimenting here on the cooler side. I will also mention that I used a hop spider, a big one but probably a minor reduction there. I'm going to rebrew my recipe again soon and I won't be using the spider but I plan to up the hops about 25-50%. Could be that I needed more time at 155F as well.

First Gold is a UK hop with citrus character too, mild to moderately so I'd say. Might be hard to source though, I had to look around for it last time I purchased it. I've used it several times in Best Bitters and I like it.

Also, perhaps slightly too bitter not considering the whirlpool hops? Maybe target it around 30 IBUs without the whirlpool addition. Looking for a little smoother/milder than a bitter. I was about 28 IBUs without my whirlpool hops and thought the bittering was just right but I was lacking aroma.

I actually looked for First Gold also as that one sounded great. However, same as Harlequin, I couldn't source it.

As far as the bitterness, yeah I'm still on the fence with that. Guidelines go up to 45 and state medium to medium high bitterness, bitterness should be pronounced, which is why I went as high as I did. We did a pale ale that was right around 48 just recently and I used that as a judge of where 38 might fall in at. Still on the fence with that but I'll ponder on that a little more.

For aroma, I hear you there as well. Not sure on that. I could throw on a FO addition of Target and Mandarina for a little more aroma, or do it as a 2 step whirlpool. Target/Mandarina whirlpool at say 175 and Mandarina only at 160 or so.

Thanks for the input!

 

[AlexKay]

I can certainly see wanting to stick with YVH. But FYI ... when they've been out of stock I've had really good experiences ordering from Northwest Hop Farms, and they do have 2022 First Gold and 2021 Harlequin in stock, for what seem like pretty reasonable prices. (They also carry a lot of varieties I haven't found anywhere else, like Sybilla and Lorien.)

I felt Mandarina was too pithy and kind of harsh. It's been a while, and I'm better now at recipes, so maybe I should give it another try.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I know the five minutes additions are kind of popular and I have only played around with them a little bit however I concentrate mainly on using whirlpooling as far as aroma. I think just considering your whirlpool hops, that you don't have enough for aroma. I had to scale your recipe to my own volume but I think perhaps you don't have enough. I whirpooled two ounces of Fuggles and an ounce of Mosaic (@155F, 30 minutes) in my own recipe and I felt that the aroma needed a boost. I also feel that 170 is a little too hot for whirlpooling in my own opinion. I typically do 165F at 20 minutes but I was experimenting here on the cooler side. I will also mention that I used a hop spider, a big one but probably a minor reduction there. I'm going to rebrew my recipe again soon and I won't be using the spider but I plan to up the hops about 25-50%. Could be that I needed more time at 155F as well.

First Gold is a UK hop with citrus character too, mild to moderately so I'd say. Might be hard to source though, I had to look around for it last time I purchased it. I've used it several times in Best Bitters and I like it.

Also, perhaps slightly too bitter not considering the whirlpool hops? Maybe target it around 30 IBUs without the whirlpool addition. Looking for a little smoother/milder than a bitter. I was about 28 IBUs without my whirlpool hops and thought the bittering was just right but I was lacking aroma.

I'm not sold on this schedule. I'm on the fence if it's overkill but messing with some numbers and additions...

HOPS:
10 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 29.21
2 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 1.52
4 oz - Target, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 4.1
2 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
4 oz - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
4 oz - Target, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 160 °F
8 oz - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 160 °F

Added a flamout addition of Challenger/Mandarina and added a bit of Target to the whirlpool which I also dropped temp to 160. I don't like going much lower than that as I feel you have to let the whirlpool sit too long to really get anything out of it. I bolded the new additions.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I can certainly see wanting to stick with YVH. But FYI ... when they've been out of stock I've had really good experiences ordering from Northwest Hop Farms, and they do have 2022 First Gold and 2021 Harlequin in stock, for what seem like pretty reasonable prices. (They also carry a lot of varieties I haven't found anywhere else, like Sybilla and Lorien.)

I felt Mandarina was too pithy and kind of harsh. It's been a while, and I'm better now at recipes, so maybe I should give it another try.

We have a wholesale account with YVH so we get better pricing there which is why we tend to stick with their products. I'm not opposed to maybe using Amarillo.... I'll ponder that as well.

 

[Deadalus]

I'm not sold on this schedule. I'm on the fence if it's overkill but messing with some numbers and additions...

HOPS:
10 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 29.21
2 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 1.52
4 oz - Target, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 4.1
2 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
4 oz - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
4 oz - Target, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 160 °F
8 oz - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 160 °F

Added a flamout addition of Challenger/Mandarina and added a bit of Target to the whirlpool which I also dropped temp to 160. I don't like going much lower than that as I feel you have to let the whirlpool sit too long to really get anything out of it. I bolded the new additions.

I've done the two step whirlpool a time or two and it does stretch out the brew day. I am not so sure either about the 155 whirlpool at 30 minutes, references I've seen say that commercially it's held for an hour in practice. I like the change with the FO hops and then the whirlpool. I'm going to keep that in mind as option in the future as I've always done one or the other. I don't have a PID on my BK, just a power controller. I target 165 and then leave the power on somewhere between 10-20% on my 30amp panel and I know I keep it between 160-165. That's a relatively new approach as in the past I would guestimate and hit the power on and off to boost it up when it dropped below 160. So that's my "165 whirlpool process" for clarity. I suspect your temperature control is a little more automated given the volume.

I am a style oriented kind of brewer myself but I missed that medium bitterness mention so I agree and say keep it like you have it.

If I remember correctly I think I read that the First Golds aren't widely grown so might not be a great choice anyway given the volume you want. I got them from a HB store and I haven't seen them offered in half pound or pound options.

 

[Bayou Fatma Brewer]

Doing our first ever golden ale. We were looking for something quick and easy to pump out to release with a Hazy IPA. As we've never done one, and from what I've read, there's a lot of ambiguity out there on what makes a good one, looking for a quick sanity check. I don't want an english IPA and I think that's really what I'm looking to confirm here. Thoughts on this?

Title: Golden Ale

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: British Golden Ale
Boil Time: 30 min
Batch Size: 43 gallons (ending kettle volume)
Boil Size: 44 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.045
Efficiency: 77% (ending kettle)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 0.97

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.046
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 4.64%
IBU (tinseth): 38.26
SRM (morey): 4.57
Mash pH: 5.35

FERMENTABLES:
46 lb - Maris Otter Pale (67.3%)
15 lb - Pale 2-Row (22%)
6 lb - White Wheat (8.8%)
1.3 lb - BEST Acidulated (1.9%)

HOPS:
10 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 29.21
2 oz - Challenger, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 1.52
4 oz - Target, Type: Pellet, AA: 11.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 4.1
8 oz - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 170 °F, IBU: 3.43

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - English Ale Yeast S-04
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
Fermentation Temp: 60 F
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

PRIMING:
Method: co2
CO2 Level: 2.4 Volumes

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: 31514
Ca2: 47
Mg2: 10
Na: 4
Cl: 59
SO4: 77
HCO3: 0

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Start Temp: 164 F, Target Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 23 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.35 qt/lb
Starting Grain Temp: 68 °F

Here’s an award winning recipe from a local brewery nearby. You can scale to get the amount you need
https://brewstock.com/beerrecipebook/englishturn

 

[Miraculix]

A bit too much of everything. You're from the US perhaps?

Ibu would be around 25 for a typical UK blonde if you ask me. Plus minus five ibus.

Mandarina Bavaria is out of place from a traditionalist point of view but I've seen quite a lot blonde ales ales which featured American hops, so nowadays non-English hops are quite normal.

Og is too high, aim for an abv of 4,3%, or for 4,0% for cask.

Carbonation level should be fairly low, that low that you can only develop a good head when forcing it when pouring.

Water profile: 100 sulfate, 150 chloride.

 

[shetc]

I made a British golden ale recently that took a gold medal. Hop bill was magnum at 60 mins, fuggle/cascade at 10 mins, dry hop with fuggle/cascade. Nice combo of earthy and citrus/floral.

 

[eshea3]

Mandarina seems somehow out of place for a British beer. (It's also not my favorite hop at all.) If you're looking for something fruity, Harlequin is lovely.

Agreed. Just did a Golden Ale with Harlequin and am enjoying it immensley

 

[eshea3]

A bit too much of everything. You're from the US perhaps?

Ibu would be around 25 for a typical UK blonde if you ask me. Plus minus five ibus.

Mandarina Bavaria is out of place from a traditionalist point of view but I've seen quite a lot blonde ales ales which featured American hops, so nowadays non-English hops are quite normal.

Og is too high, aim for an abv of 4,3%, or for 4,0% for cask.

Carbonation level should be fairly low, that low that you can only develop a good head when forcing it when pouring.

Water profile: 100 sulfate, 150 chloride.

I use the Murphy and Sons water profile for bitter adjusted to my local water. Cl 144 S04 295 Ca 187

 

[Brooothru]

I actually looked for First Gold also as that one sounded great. However, same as Harlequin, I couldn't source it.

As far as the bitterness, yeah I'm still on the fence with that. Guidelines go up to 45 and state medium to medium high bitterness, bitterness should be pronounced, which is why I went as high as I did. We did a pale ale that was right around 48 just recently and I used that as a judge of where 38 might fall in at. Still on the fence with that but I'll ponder on that a little more.

For aroma, I hear you there as well. Not sure on that. I could throw on a FO addition of Target and Mandarina for a little more aroma, or do it as a 2 step whirlpool. Target/Mandarina whirlpool at say 175 and Mandarina only at 160 or so.

Thanks for the input!

Thank you for posting this thread. My “on deck” beer (in two weeks) is a British Golden ale. Nice to compare my recipe with yours. It seems to be tracking closely, except for the Mandarina.

I was finally able to source First Gold from a supplier in Canada. The price was reasonable but the shipping was a bit pricey trans-border. Slight delay cleaning customs as well.

 

[Miraculix]

I use the Murphy and Sons water profile for bitter adjusted to my local water. Cl 144 S04 295 Ca 187

For my taste, way too much sulfate, but that's really only my personal preference in this case. I usually don't go higher than 150 ppm sulfate.

 

[Rob2010SS]

A bit too much of everything. You're from the US perhaps?

Ibu would be around 25 for a typical UK blonde if you ask me. Plus minus five ibus.

Mandarina Bavaria is out of place from a traditionalist point of view but I've seen quite a lot blonde ales ales which featured American hops, so nowadays non-English hops are quite normal.

Og is too high, aim for an abv of 4,3%, or for 4,0% for cask.

Carbonation level should be fairly low, that low that you can only develop a good head when forcing it when pouring.

Water profile: 100 sulfate, 150 chloride.

LOL, yes, from the US.

My reasoning on the IBUs - the guidelines have it listed as having a noticeable bitterness. "Hop bitterness should be pronounced." We did a pale ale that was 48 IBUs and was ultimately very smooth and not bitter for our tastes. So I wanted to keep in the higher end of the IBUs for the style. Granted, I have not had a lot of this style so I'm interpreting a lot of the guidelines.

For the Mandarina, yes, I agree, not typical. However, with the guidelines stating citrusy american hops are becoming more predominant, it led me to look for something more citrusy. Since we're using UK hops in the beginning, wanted to stick with something close to that region. To me it seemed more out of place to throw an american hop in there so I went with Mandarina being a german hop and having more of that tangerine/citrus flavor that I'm hoping for.

My ABV is coming in around 4.6% so I don't feel I'm too far off. Grains are already ordered anyway so not going to change that.

I appreciate the thoughtful response though!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I made a British golden ale recently that took a gold medal. Hop bill was magnum at 60 mins, fuggle/cascade at 10 mins, dry hop with fuggle/cascade. Nice combo of earthy and citrus/floral.

I was trying to avoid a dry hop but perhaps I should incorporate that? That would help the aroma pop a bit more for sure.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Agreed. Just did a Golden Ale with Harlequin and am enjoying it immensley

I wanted to try Harlequin but I want to stick with the companies we have a wholesale account with to save a bit of $$ and with those places, I can't get Harlequin. I'll keep an eye out for it though. sounds amazing.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Thank you for posting this thread. My “on deck” beer (in two weeks) is a British Golden ale. Nice to compare my recipe with yours. It seems to be tracking closely, except for the Mandarina.

I was finally able to source First Gold from a supplier in Canada. The price was reasonable but the shipping was a bit pricey trans-border. Slight delay cleaning customs as well.

What are you using in addition to the first gold? If you get time, would love to see your recipe as well just to compare!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I use the Murphy and Sons water profile for bitter adjusted to my local water. Cl 144 S04 295 Ca 187

I tend to agree with Miraculix. My palette doesn't like sulfate that high from what I've experienced.

 

[Miraculix]

LOL, yes, from the US.

My reasoning on the IBUs - the guidelines have it listed as having a noticeable bitterness. "Hop bitterness should be pronounced." We did a pale ale that was 48 IBUs and was ultimately very smooth and not bitter for our tastes. So I wanted to keep in the higher end of the IBUs for the style. Granted, I have not had a lot of this style so I'm interpreting a lot of the guidelines.

For the Mandarina, yes, I agree, not typical. However, with the guidelines stating citrusy american hops are becoming more predominant, it led me to look for something more citrusy. Since we're using UK hops in the beginning, wanted to stick with something close to that region. To me it seemed more out of place to throw an american hop in there so I went with Mandarina being a german hop and having more of that tangerine/citrus flavor that I'm hoping for.

My ABV is coming in around 4.6% so I don't feel I'm too far off. Grains are already ordered anyway so not going to change that.

I appreciate the thoughtful response though!

Which guidelines? The Brits never created guidelines for their beers.

Don't even waste a single moment on something the bjcp says about beer from overseas. Not their territory. They simply don't know.

 

[Brooothru]

What are you using in addition to the first gold? If you get time, would love to see your recipe as well just to compare!

Grist is 50% Crisp Chevallier, 20% Maris Otter, 10% torrified wheat, 10% Lyle's Golden Syrup, 6% CaraFoam, and 4% Crisp 77L.

For hops: Hallertau Magnum 11 IBU @ FWH
First Gold 14 IBU @ :15 min.
First Gold 9 IBU @ :01 min.

Projected values: O.G. 1.042/10.5P
F.G. 1.009/2.3P
ABV 4.3%
IBU 34
SRM 5.7

Cheers

 

[Rob2010SS]

Grist is 50% Crisp Chevallier, 20% Maris Otter, 10% torrified wheat, 10% Lyle's Golden Syrup, 6% CaraFoam, and 4% Crisp 77L.

For hops: Hallertau Magnum 11 IBU @ FWH
First Gold 14 IBU @ :15 min.
First Gold 9 IBU @ :01 min.

Projected values: O.G. 1.042/10.5P
F.G. 1.009/2.3P
ABV 4.3%
IBU 34
SRM 5.7

Cheers

Nice! Sounds great man!

Your hops, you feel that will give enough aroma in the finished product?

I always feel like aroma is never strong enough for me so I think I tend to overdo it haha.

 

[brewbama]

Which guidelines? The Brits never created guidelines for their beers.

Don't even waste a single moment on something the bjcp says about beer from overseas. Not their territory. They simply don't know.

It is my understanding that Ron Pattinson had significant input on the British styles section of the BJCP. If I am mistaken I stand corrected.

Regardless, if there are errors, the BJCP accepts comments for correction.

I like to brew Golden Ale with British grain, water profile, and yeast with American citrus-y hops based on the guidelines.

 

[Miraculix]

It is my understanding that Ron Pattinson had significant input on the British styles section of the BJCP. If I am mistaken I stand corrected.

Regardless, if there are errors, the BJCP accepts comments for correction.

I like to brew Golden Ale with British grain, water profile, and yeast with American citrus-y hops based on his input in the guidelines.

Let's say it like this, he's not talking kindly about the bjcp.

 

[brewbama]

Let's say it like this, he's not talking kindly about the bjcp.

Yes, I’ve seen some of his comments. He doesn’t exactly sugar coat it

 

[Brooothru]

Nice! Sounds great man!

Your hops, you feel that will give enough aroma in the finished product?

I always feel like aroma is never strong enough for me so I think I tend to overdo it haha.

I usually do flame out/whirlpool hops on just about every beer I brew, even German pils, alt and Koln. I'm trying my hand at British beers this year in earnest for the first time, so I'm trying to stay true to traditional methods for the time being. The bitterness is kinda' pushing the upper limit for 'published' style, so I'm hoping it'll be sufficiently bitter for your tastes a well as mine, especially with regards to aroma.

 

[brewbama]

That’s the beauty of homebrewing. There aren’t any restrictions. I mix match styles because I like lower ABV styles like Leichtbier, Bitters and Golden Ales but throw in tropical Aus or NZ, or citrus-y American hops.

 

[AlexKay]

Which guidelines? The Brits never created guidelines for their beers.

Don't even waste a single moment on something the bjcp says about beer from overseas. Not their territory. They simply don't know.

Consider that for each BJCP style guideline

• you have one or more people writing the guideline who have more experience with beer than your average consumer
• these people invested some amount of time and did some amount of research before writing the guideline
• in some cases, outside experts were consulted
• the guideline was written carefully and edited
• there is a mechanism for mistakes to be corrected

None of this guarantees they will get it right! In many cases (perhaps rather more so with international styles) they miss the mark. But they are more likely to get close than your average homebrewer will with a bunch of Google searches.

I suppose you could take the position that if you want to make something on the obscure side, say, an Australian Sparkling Ale, that the only way to learn is to go drink them in Australia. This seems a little limiting. Plus, even then, how do you know which ones to drink (never mind whether they're served correctly) without some sort of outside guidance ... and then where do you propose to get that guidance?

The BJCP guidelines are not a bad place to start.

 

[Miraculix]

Consider that for each BJCP style guideline

• you have one or more people writing the guideline who have more experience with beer than your average consumer
• these people invested some amount of time and did some amount of research before writing the guideline
• in some cases, outside experts were consulted
• the guideline was written carefully and edited
• there is a mechanism for mistakes to be corrected

None of this guarantees they will get it right! In many cases (perhaps rather more so with international styles) they miss the mark. But they are more likely to get close than your average homebrewer will with a bunch of Google searches.

I suppose you could take the position that if you want to make something on the obscure side, say, an Australian Sparkling Ale, that the only way to learn is to go drink them in Australia. This seems a little limiting. Plus, even then, how do you know which ones to drink (never mind whether they're served correctly) without some sort of outside guidance ... and then where do you propose to get that guidance?

The BJCP guidelines are not a bad place to start.

A good place to start is talking to the people from the country you want to brew your beer from.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I usually do flame out/whirlpool hops on just about every beer I brew, even German pils, alt and Koln. I'm trying my hand at British beers this year in earnest for the first time, so I'm trying to stay true to traditional methods for the time being. The bitterness is kinda' pushing the upper limit for 'published' style, so I'm hoping it'll be sufficiently bitter for your tastes a well as mine, especially with regards to aroma.

Based on your comments as well as @Miraculix I changed my additions a bit. The flameout additions were showing 0 ibus which I know is inaccurate so I changed that setting to show a whirlpool which showed some IBUs, as I will start chilling as soon as that element is off. Screenshot below, but it brought me down to 33 IBUs by reducing the 30 min addition to 6oz as opposed to 10oz. Still pondering on the whirlpool additions....

 

[AlexKay]

A good place to start is talking to the people from the country you want to brew your beer from.

Not a sure thing either. Your average person-on-the-street is unlikely know that much about beer. If you come to New York and ask ten people about American Lagers, you won't learn a thing about 2-row vs. 6-row, which adjunct in the grist (or how much), what hop varietal, DMS level ... you'll get ten different answers about what a "typical" American Lager is, and not a one will tell you that Bud is oddly estery, Rolling Rock loaded with DMS, or Yuengling possibly skunky.

The brewer who says, "I know how to make an Australian Sparkling Ale because I talked to my three Australian friends, and I went to a pub once in Sydney" inspires no more confidence than one that tells me they've brewed exactingly to the BJCP guidelines.

 

[eshea3]

For my taste, way too much sulfate, but that's really only my personal preference in this case. I usually don't go higher than 150 ppm sulfate.

What makes the world go round.

https://www.brunwater.com/articles/brewers-dont-be-afraid-of-sulfate

 

[Miraculix]

Not a sure thing either. Your average person-on-the-street is unlikely know that much about beer. If you come to New York and ask ten people about American Lagers, you won't learn a thing about 2-row vs. 6-row, which adjunct in the grist (or how much), what hop varietal, DMS level ... you'll get ten different answers about what a "typical" American Lager is, and not a one will tell you that Bud is oddly estery, Rolling Rock loaded with DMS, or Yuengling possibly skunky.

The brewer who says, "I know how to make an Australian Sparkling Ale because I talked to my three Australian friends, and I went to a pub once in Sydney" inspires no more confidence than one that tells me they've brewed exactingly to the BJCP guidelines.

Come on... It's obvious that I meant beer people and not the average person you met on the street.

Ask Ron, for example.

 

[Miraculix]

What makes the world go round.

https://www.brunwater.com/articles/brewers-dont-be-afraid-of-sulfate

As I said, personal taste. What he describes as "popping hops", I perceive as unpleasant bitterness something.

Did some blind tests on this one.