Brewzilla Gen4 Discussion/Tips Talk

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chop249

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Are you guys dialing down the pump by using percentage where it kicks on and off or by the valve on the recirculation arm? I did not use a hops spider on the first go round but I think I will on the next one because I did get hops material below the false bottom and the pump couldn't pull enough wort through the FB to do a good whirl pool (First time and started after I shut down the boil, should I have started during?). What about a BIAB for mashing? Should I grab one of those? Right now I don't have a mill, maybe that's the route vs the BIAB bag. And do we think the new plate for the false bottom is going to help with the steam accumulation under the false bottom?

LOTS of Qs! LOL!
 

Teufelhunde

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This is what I used to do with my robobrew 3 only used rice hulls on really sticky mashes with a lot of oats and wheat.
I stopped using the false bottom plate and started using a trubtrapper with the whirlpool.
I use the false bottom, but am open to options, got a link for the trubtrapper you use?
 

Teufelhunde

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Are you guys dialing down the pump by using percentage where it kicks on and off or by the valve on the recirculation arm? I did not use a hops spider on the first go round but I think I will on the next one because I did get hops material below the false bottom and the pump couldn't pull enough wort through the FB to do a good whirl pool (First time and started after I shut down the boil, should I have started during?). What about a BIAB for mashing? Should I grab one of those? Right now I don't have a mill, maybe that's the route vs the BIAB bag. And do we think the new plate for the false bottom is going to help with the steam accumulation under the false bottom?

LOTS of Qs! LOL!
I am using a 3/1/1 so my only option is to use the valve. I also throw my hops in commando and I get a little bit below the false bottom, but it does an amazingly good job at stopping it. I also only use the whirlpool after the boil. I usually put the arm with the hose on it and blow backwards through it to clear the pump, then put on the whirlpool arm. No sanitization worries as the wort is at 200+ degrees. I have used a BIAB bag under the malt pipe once, didn't like it, won't do it again. Can't help with the rest..

YMMV

Lon
 

DuncB

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@Teufelhunde

I made one of them after seeing the portly gentleman use one and then the later brewtools trubinator.

First one I used in my robobrew 3 and then a bigger one made for my Guten 70 which is similar in size to brewzilla 65.




trub trapper not in production anymore and the trubinator wasn't available in New Zealand. I just bought some fine SS mesh, some silicone U shaped seal and bent it up around a stainless steel bar. Catches the hops very well and a lot of the break as well.
 

mashdar

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New to forum, ebiab, and bewing controls, so I'll lead by pleading ignorance.

I've ordered a 35L Gen4, and I saw in the manual that PID parameters are adjustable.

0. Do you think the integrated temperature sensor a garbage data point, or is it simply an issue of action-response lag? (The following questions assume the latter.)

1. Has anyone attempted to tune the PID system to account for mash system constants?

2. Do the constants change enough from batch to batch that there is no (reasonably) general stable solution?

3. Do the constants change during the mash (eg changes in viscocity) such that stability is hard to maintain?

4. I haven't looked into whether these parameters can be adjusted as part of recipe, but obviously ideal mash parameters will not match ideal boil parameters. Any thoughts?

5. Is this a big problem if you're mashing in at target temperature and maintaining, or is this hitting people after an acid rest or something?

Thanks for any insights and discussion!
 
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CleanEmUpIves

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New to forum, ebiab, and bewing controls, so I'll lead by pleading ignorance.

I've ordered a 35L Gen4, and I saw in the manual that PID parameters are adjustable.

0. Do you think the integrated temperature sensor a garbage data point, or is it simply an issue of action-response lag? (The following questions assume the latter.)

1. Has anyone attempted to tune the PID system to account for mash system constants?

2. Do the constants change enough from batch to batch that there is no (reasonably) general stable solution?

3. Do the constants change during the mash (eg changes in viscocity) such that stability is hard to maintain?

4. I haven't looked into whether these parameters can be adjusted as part of recipe, but obviously ideal mash parameters will not match ideal boil parameters. Any thoughts?

5. Is this a big problem if you're mashing in at target temperature and maintaining, or is this hitting people after an acid rest or something?

Thanks for any insights and discussion!

The system suffers from several design flaws:


You can tune the PID:

 

Gandelarcrom

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Just finished my second brew and have been having some pretty frustrating issues. This is my first time doing all grain brewing and I’m using the 9 gallon 240V gen 4.

The first brew was an English mild with 9.5 lbs of grain. I used the malt pipe only and the pump kept losing suction causing the temperate to swing wildly as in over 15F greater than the set temperature. I used a large whisk to stir and kept doing this for the hour long mash, recirculating rarely as the pump would almost immediately bind. When I pulled the basked out to sparge, drainage was incredibly slow and took using the whisk to scrape the bottom to get any sort of flow. All in all not a particularly fun experience. Tangentially this beer got stuck at 10.20 (from 10.36) and I’m wondering if the mash issues were the major cause.

Today I feel a little more confident and attempt a Jubelale clones using 17 lb of grain and a bag since my local store wasn’t able to adjust the grind size which didn’t look particularly fine anyways. Same issues with this, maybe a little more flow but obvious signs of the pump losing suction and the same wild temperate swings which I assume are just a reading of the dead space under the grain basket. Same deal as last time all the way until the sparge which was also incredibly slow until I pulled the bag up and pretty good flow started.

Now I know how to use it with a bag, but constantly pulling on the bag for the sparge seems quite tedious and is frustrating considering the $600+ I spent on this.

Has anybody else had these issues and found a good solution?
 

CleanEmUpIves

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Just finished my second brew and have been having some pretty frustrating issues. This is my first time doing all grain brewing and I’m using the 9 gallon 240V gen 4.

The first brew was an English mild with 9.5 lbs of grain. I used the malt pipe only and the pump kept losing suction causing the temperate to swing wildly as in over 15F greater than the set temperature. I used a large whisk to stir and kept doing this for the hour long mash, recirculating rarely as the pump would almost immediately bind. When I pulled the basked out to sparge, drainage was incredibly slow and took using the whisk to scrape the bottom to get any sort of flow. All in all not a particularly fun experience. Tangentially this beer got stuck at 10.20 (from 10.36) and I’m wondering if the mash issues were the major cause.

Today I feel a little more confident and attempt a Jubelale clones using 17 lb of grain and a bag since my local store wasn’t able to adjust the grind size which didn’t look particularly fine anyways. Same issues with this, maybe a little more flow but obvious signs of the pump losing suction and the same wild temperate swings which I assume are just a reading of the dead space under the grain basket. Same deal as last time all the way until the sparge which was also incredibly slow until I pulled the bag up and pretty good flow started.

Now I know how to use it with a bag, but constantly pulling on the bag for the sparge seems quite tedious and is frustrating considering the $600+ I spent on this.

Has anybody else had these issues and found a good solution?

1.) Use a coarser crush
2.) Use rice hulls
3.) Slow the flow until the grain bed sets, only open the valve 1/4 to 1/2 open

Trade that thing in on a Grainfather or a Braumeister ;)

Watch Gash on YouTube, observe his crush and how he uses rice hulls and slows the flow until the grain bed sets. Of course it doesn't work for him all time either but he plays around with it until it flows!
 

chop249

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Just finished my second brew and have been having some pretty frustrating issues. This is my first time doing all grain brewing and I’m using the 9 gallon 240V gen 4.

The first brew was an English mild with 9.5 lbs of grain. I used the malt pipe only and the pump kept losing suction causing the temperate to swing wildly as in over 15F greater than the set temperature. I used a large whisk to stir and kept doing this for the hour long mash, recirculating rarely as the pump would almost immediately bind. When I pulled the basked out to sparge, drainage was incredibly slow and took using the whisk to scrape the bottom to get any sort of flow. All in all not a particularly fun experience. Tangentially this beer got stuck at 10.20 (from 10.36) and I’m wondering if the mash issues were the major cause.

Today I feel a little more confident and attempt a Jubelale clones using 17 lb of grain and a bag since my local store wasn’t able to adjust the grind size which didn’t look particularly fine anyways. Same issues with this, maybe a little more flow but obvious signs of the pump losing suction and the same wild temperate swings which I assume are just a reading of the dead space under the grain basket. Same deal as last time all the way until the sparge which was also incredibly slow until I pulled the bag up and pretty good flow started.

Now I know how to use it with a bag, but constantly pulling on the bag for the sparge seems quite tedious and is frustrating considering the $600+ I spent on this.

Has anybody else had these issues and found a good solution?
Like @CleanEmUpIves mentioned, don't run the pump on full. I open the valve 1/8 or so and adjust till I get it right to stop that. I also noticed on the last brew that the top plate was really impeding the flow during sparge. I pulled it and the sparge went way quicker. I may skip the top plate all together the next one and see if that helps during the mash as well.
 

garm

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Just finished my second brew and have been having some pretty frustrating issues. This is my first time doing all grain brewing and I’m using the 9 gallon 240V gen 4.

The first brew was an English mild with 9.5 lbs of grain. I used the malt pipe only and the pump kept losing suction causing the temperate to swing wildly as in over 15F greater than the set temperature. I used a large whisk to stir and kept doing this for the hour long mash, recirculating rarely as the pump would almost immediately bind. When I pulled the basked out to sparge, drainage was incredibly slow and took using the whisk to scrape the bottom to get any sort of flow. All in all not a particularly fun experience. Tangentially this beer got stuck at 10.20 (from 10.36) and I’m wondering if the mash issues were the major cause.

Today I feel a little more confident and attempt a Jubelale clones using 17 lb of grain and a bag since my local store wasn’t able to adjust the grind size which didn’t look particularly fine anyways. Same issues with this, maybe a little more flow but obvious signs of the pump losing suction and the same wild temperate swings which I assume are just a reading of the dead space under the grain basket. Same deal as last time all the way until the sparge which was also incredibly slow until I pulled the bag up and pretty good flow started.

Now I know how to use it with a bag, but constantly pulling on the bag for the sparge seems quite tedious and is frustrating considering the $600+ I spent on this.

Has anybody else had these issues and found a good solution?
I ran into these issues on my first two batches. The third one I did went well when doing all of these:
  • Start the pump with the valve closed and slowly crack it open. You'll only want it about 1/3 to 1/2 open at most. If the pump starts making noise, try to adjust the valve a little in either direction. Sometimes having more or less flow helps it reach an equilibrium. If that doesn't work, turn off the pump, open the valve, make damn sure the pump is off (not on and clogged), blow into the tube, close the valve, and repeat these steps.
  • Increase your water to grain ratio. I was doing about 1.5 qt/lb and upped it to 1.75 qt/lb. I think the dead space between the malt pipe and vessel walls makes it thicker than intended. I wouldn't be doing 17lb grain bills until you've worked out these issues.
  • Use rice hulls. I used them in all my batches, so it's hard to say how much they help.
  • Make sure your heating element is only on for short periods of time through heating % or PID. Also make sure your strike temperature is set right and the lid is on for the mash when you're not stirring.
I had tried using a bag around the malt pipe, but it was 90 micron mesh and trapped flour and made dough balls that stopped flow. If you start slow and don't pull all of the fine grain through immediately, it should be able to flow through the recirculation and get trapped on top of the grain bed without using a bag.

When I tried the screen on top of the mash it seemed to compact the grain so I just put it on for the sparge. When mashing I just make sure the hose is positioned so its outlet is at the surface.
 

rtstrider

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I've been dealing with a stuck recirculation during mash for the past 3 brews or so. I've used 5% rice hulls and am using the pump somewhere between 25%-50% speed. The fix has been to stir every 5 to 10 minutes. Ended up breaking down and ordering one of these


I really feel that replacing the holes and false bottom in the malt pipe with a mesh (such as the mesh in the hop spider) would resolve this. I won't have this for the next brew but I should have it for the brew after. I will keep this updated with the results.
 

Sammy86

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I've been dealing with a stuck recirculation during mash for the past 3 brews or so. I've used 5% rice hulls and am using the pump somewhere between 25%-50% speed. The fix has been to stir every 5 to 10 minutes. Ended up breaking down and ordering one of these


I really feel that replacing the holes and false bottom in the malt pipe with a mesh (such as the mesh in the hop spider) would resolve this. I won't have this for the next brew but I should have it for the brew after. I will keep this updated with the results.

I use that bag for my 3.11. I love it! Fine crush, higher mash efficiency and still delicious beer!
 

rtstrider

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I found this guide


Going to try adding 2 gallons extra to my mash water and subtracting 2 gallons from the sparge. The short of it is the full water volume will be the same but more will be focused on the mash. Has anyone else tried adding 2 extra gallons to the mash water to help with stuck mash recirculation and if so what were your results?
 

Bottoms_Up

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I found this guide


Going to try adding 2 gallons extra to my mash water and subtracting 2 gallons from the sparge. The short of it is the full water volume will be the same but more will be focused on the mash. Has anyone else tried adding 2 extra gallons to the mash water to help with stuck mash recirculation and if so what were your results?
The extra 2 gallons is to account for the so-called "dead space" under the bottom screen of the pump (it is 2.7 liters in Vers 4). The amount that is above that, is the amount calculated for the mash thickness (quarts/lb. of grain). The stuck mash often has to do with this thickness and/or the gap amount used to grind the grain.

I have the Brew Bag and, rather than use it in my Brewzilla, I find it more effective to line my fermenter with the bag (after I have soaked the bag in a solution of StarSan), and then drain the wort through that. Although the bag is designed to use with high temperatures, I figure that it will last much longer if used at fermentation temperatures.
 
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rtstrider

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The extra 2 gallons is to account for the so-called "dead space" under the bottom screen of the pump (it is 2.7 liters in Vers 4). The amount that is above that is the amount calculated for the mash thickness (quarts/lb. of grain). The stuck mash often has to do with this thickness and/or the gap amount used to grind the grain.

I have the Bre Bag and, rather than use it in my Brewzilla, I find it more effective to line my fermenter with the bag (after I have soaked the bag in a solution of StarSan), and drain the wort through that. Although the bag is designed to use with high temperatures, I figure that it will last much longer if used at fermentation temperatures.
Thanks for the heads up! I went ahead and adjusted the recipe to have 2.7 more liters in the mash instead of 2 gallons. Hoping this helps!
 

Bottoms_Up

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Thanks for the heads up! I went ahead and adjusted the recipe to have 2.7 more liters in the mash instead of 2 gallons. Hoping this helps!
If you're using a Gen 3.3.1, it wil likely be more than 2.7 liters, although 2 gallons (7.6 liters) sounds like quite a bit. Maybe others here have measured the "dead space" for the Brewzilla Gen 3.3.1 and can provide a more accurate figure. If you have the Gen 4, then it should be about 2.7 liters.
 

rtstrider

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If you're using a Gen 3.3.1, it wil likely be more than 2.7 liters, although 2 gallons (7.6 liters) sounds like quite a bit. Maybe others here have measured the "dead space" for the Brewzilla Gen 3.3.1 and can provide a more accurate figure. If you have the Gen 4, then it should be about 2.7 liters.
You fixed my stuck mash recirculation issue! Mash was set for 1.5 qts per lb I then added 2.7 liters to the mash and its been perfect! Going to do that for all my recipes going forward
 

Gandelarcrom

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I ran into these issues on my first two batches. The third one I did went well when doing all of these:
  • Start the pump with the valve closed and slowly crack it open. You'll only want it about 1/3 to 1/2 open at most. If the pump starts making noise, try to adjust the valve a little in either direction. Sometimes having more or less flow helps it reach an equilibrium. If that doesn't work, turn off the pump, open the valve, make damn sure the pump is off (not on and clogged), blow into the tube, close the valve, and repeat these steps.
  • Increase your water to grain ratio. I was doing about 1.5 qt/lb and upped it to 1.75 qt/lb. I think the dead space between the malt pipe and vessel walls makes it thicker than intended. I wouldn't be doing 17lb grain bills until you've worked out these issues.
  • Use rice hulls. I used them in all my batches, so it's hard to say how much they help.
  • Make sure your heating element is only on for short periods of time through heating % or PID. Also make sure your strike temperature is set right and the lid is on for the mash when you're not stirring.
I had tried using a bag around the malt pipe, but it was 90 micron mesh and trapped flour and made dough balls that stopped flow. If you start slow and don't pull all of the fine grain through immediately, it should be able to flow through the recirculation and get trapped on top of the grain bed without using a bag.

When I tried the screen on top of the mash it seemed to compact the grain so I just put it on for the sparge. When mashing I just make sure the hose is positioned so its outlet is at the surface.
I used all of your recommendations in my latest brew and it worked like a charm! Everything went super smoothly. The unit seemed slightly hesitant to hit the target temperature using the default PID settings, but they were very stable throughout the mash.

Thanks again!
 

rtstrider

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I did end up with a good bit of grain in the boil still so a bag is a must for my system going forward. Really curious to see how the bag performs and how it helps wort clarity. If nothing else it'll at least keep the grain bits from getting into the boil
 

Teufelhunde

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If you're using a Gen 3.3.1, it wil likely be more than 2.7 liters, although 2 gallons (7.6 liters) sounds like quite a bit. Maybe others here have measured the "dead space" for the Brewzilla Gen 3.3.1 and can provide a more accurate figure. If you have the Gen 4, then it should be about 2.7 liters.
I have a 3.1.1 and when I am filling it, after adding the first gallon, it is above the false bottom....
 

doylejg

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Just got through Brewzilla gen4. Is it extremely hard to clamp down the lid? My clamps seem like they sit a bit low and I'm afraid of busting the lid. Ran through a water only batch tonight to get a feel for things. The 120 volt 9.25 gallon has around a .5 gallon per hour boil off.
i was wondering the same thing. one of the clamps exploded while holding the glass lid down. the photos of the system show it holding the lid, but i agree i would only use them for storage or distilling. i just contacted the company for a replacement, maybe they will clear up if this is their interned purpose (the clamps are also used for the kettle extension).
 

Bottoms_Up

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i was wondering the same thing. one of the clamps exploded while holding the glass lid down. the photos of the system show it holding the lid, but i agree i would only use them for storage or distilling. i just contacted the company for a replacement, maybe they will clear up if this is their interned purpose (the clamps are also used for the kettle extension).
Why use the clamps? There's a hole in the lid, so it's not like you are preventing anything from coming out. I think the clamps are likely used more for extensions and for distilling purposes. I leave mine unclamped.
 

garm

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I used all of your recommendations in my latest brew and it worked like a charm! Everything went super smoothly. The unit seemed slightly hesitant to hit the target temperature using the default PID settings, but they were very stable throughout the mash.

Thanks again!
Good to hear. I can't offer much help with PID on the 240V unit since I'm on the 110v. There's been people posting their 220v settings in the comments here:
 

garm

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Anyone have tips for mashing large grain bills? My efficiency was lower than expected on my last batch because it was 16.5lbs and I was hitting the max volume at 1.66 qt/lb water so I could only sparge with a little over a gallon through all of that grain. It was hard to stir too since scooping grain from the bottom would make it overflow through the 2 handle holes. Maybe I can plug those holes with something when I go to stir it or just use a bag.

I guess I could lower the mash water a bit but I didn't want a stuck mash since it had oats and wheat. Lowering batch size would work as well I suppose, but I used that much grain because it was part of a recipe kit.
 

agentbud

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i was wondering the same thing. one of the clamps exploded while holding the glass lid down. the photos of the system show it holding the lid, but i agree i would only use them for storage or distilling. i just contacted the company for a replacement, maybe they will clear up if this is their interned purpose (the clamps are also used for the kettle extension).
I believe it says in the instructions somewhere that the clamps are only for the extension pipe and should not be used for the lid. Or maybe I saw that in one of Kee's videos or something
 

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I think I know the answer but can it be programmed for a delayed start? This is one of my favorite features on the Foundry. Set it to start the next morning and wake up to strike temperature.
 

mng8r

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Has anyone checked the accuracy and consistency of the built in temperature sensor and readings?

I unpacked the unit, plugged it in and went through the initial setup. The display showed 59.3F. It is winter in MN, but I don't keep my house that cold. I realize the sensor is not intended to measure air temp and I added a gallon of water. Display reads 63.4F. My Thermapen reads 70F and my Thermoworks Smoke reads 70.4F.

This is the second Gen4 I've had and I noticed the same thing on the first one, but because the first one had multiple other issues, I chalked it up to it just being an overall bad unit.To MoreBeer's credit, they made things right by exchanging the first unit.

On the first one, I set up the two point calibration, but that made it accurate at only two temperatures and only at the time I set the calibration. Turning the unit off and back on and the reading would change by 3 degrees.
 

Bottoms_Up

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Has anyone checked the accuracy and consistency of the built in temperature sensor and readings?

I unpacked the unit, plugged it in and went through the initial setup. The display showed 59.3F. It is winter in MN, but I don't keep my house that cold. I realize the sensor is not intended to measure air temp and I added a gallon of water. Display reads 63.4F. My Thermapen reads 70F and my Thermoworks Smoke reads 70.4F.

This is the second Gen4 I've had and I noticed the same thing on the first one, but because the first one had multiple other issues, I chalked it up to it just being an overall bad unit.To MoreBeer's credit, they made things right by exchanging the first unit.

On the first one, I set up the two point calibration, but that made it accurate at only two temperatures and only at the time I set the calibration. Turning the unit off and back on and the reading would change by 3 degrees.
Absolutely! I received my Gen 4 a month or two ago, and I have noticed a consistent difference of about 7 degrees Fahrenheit. Even at room temperature, it is about 7 degrees lower. I contacted Kegland and they tried to convince me that 7 degrees Fahrenheit is negligible. I vehemently disagreed and told them that at 7 degrees F lower than room temperature, I would definitley be constantly wearing thick sweaters! I have heard about MANY people receiving the Gen 4 version with a difference of about 7 F or even more. I mentioned this to the Kegland people and they tried to convince me that this issue is basically very rare. I'm beginning to think that it is definitley NOT!

Anyways, I did a 2-point calibration, and I HIGHLY recommend that everyone purchasing a Gen 4 unit do the same (this issue did not seem to apply to the 3.i.s versions).

If you have the 35 Liter version, purchase 2 or 3 bags of ice cubes (3 bags is about 20 pounds) and add some very cold water to it. Then do calibration at Point 1 when it stabilizes at freezing temperature. Then remove all the ice and water and add about 25 liters of hot tap water. Then bring it to a boil and hold it there until the Brewzilla temperature stabilizes. Then add the actual temperature to calibration point 2, using an accurate temperature probe thermomenter or your value of boling temperature based on your elevation. My elevation was about 500 feet above sea level, which meant 111.3 degrees F.

By the way, for some reason, the cailbration can only be done in metric units, not Imperial. So you will need to set the Brewzilla to Metric units before you do the calibrations.

If you have any further questions on this process, feel free to ask. I had to do this calibration twice since my Brewzilla went into a "bootloop" just as I entered the second calibration point. I had to reboot the Brewzilla and start all over again since when it reboots the ridiculous factory settings once again take over. Same thing - 7 F degrees difference.

It's been a frustrating process with little understanding from the Kegland people, but I think I have calibrated it so it should now read the proper temperature (I just did this for the second time yesterday). PLEASElet them know that your Brewzilla is also not calibrated peroperly, since they continue to think that it's a very rare occurrence, and don't beleive me that I'm not the only one. I think too few people are willing to "complain" Today, complaining is considered to be negative, whereas I consider it positive since it is the only way that improvements can ever be made.

I have yet to check if turning the unit on and off wil change the calibration that I have set. If it does, I have no problem with complaining once again. If a company is not willing to address concerns from its customers, it is not a company worth supporting. There are other alternative units on the market - Grainfather, Braumeister, etc.
 
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SanPancho

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2. As far as I know, there is no need to do a whirlpool, especially since there are already two filters in place. I intend to use the bottom faucet to drain off a pint or so after chilling and before transferring the wort to the fermenter. That pint is used to remove any trub that might have accumulated in the "dome". The rest should be fairly clear.
have you continued to do this? how well has it worked?
 

Bottoms_Up

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have you continued to do this? how well has it worked?
No, since the colder season is upon us. I use the Brewzilla strictly for mashing purposes in the later Fall, Winter, and early Spring. I then pump the wort into my boiling vessel and boil outside on a propane stove. Once the warmer weather returns and I can boil outside again, I will exercise this practice.
 
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SanPancho

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No, since the colder season is upon us. I use the Brewzilla stricly for mashing purposes in the later Fall, Winter, and early Spring. I then pump the wort into my boiling vessel and boil outside on a propane stove. Once the warmer weather returns and i can boil outside again, I will exercise this practice.
got it. How well did it work first time?
 

Bottoms_Up

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got it. How well did it work first time?
I haven't been able to try it yet since I received the Brewzilla Gen 4 this Fall when the temperatures here had already dropped. I tried brewing outside the first time, but at that time I didn't have the thermal jacket, the temperature was already too cold, it was quite windy, and I could not get it to a boil. I had even surrounded the Brewzilla with playwood to protect it from the cold wind. I had to pump all the wort into a boiling vessel and continue on a propane burner.

In the late Spring, when the outside temperatures permit, I will try removing much of the trub by pumping out a liter or so from the bottom, after it has cooled down, and allowed to stand for a while, for the trub, hot break, cold break, etc. to settle. I can't see why it wouldn't work since the bottom of the Brewzilla has a dome shape where the trub can accumulate. Perhaps doing a whirlpool beforehand might also help it accumulate there.
 

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Has anyone checked the accuracy and consistency of the built in temperature sensor and readings?

I unpacked the unit, plugged it in and went through the initial setup. The display showed 59.3F. It is winter in MN, but I don't keep my house that cold. I realize the sensor is not intended to measure air temp and I added a gallon of water. Display reads 63.4F. My Thermapen reads 70F and my Thermoworks Smoke reads 70.4F.

This is the second Gen4 I've had and I noticed the same thing on the first one, but because the first one had multiple other issues, I chalked it up to it just being an overall bad unit.To MoreBeer's credit, they made things right by exchanging the first unit.

On the first one, I set up the two point calibration, but that made it accurate at only two temperatures and only at the time I set the calibration. Turning the unit off and back on and the reading would change by 3 degrees.
I did my second 2-point calibration Friday night. The first time, I got into a boot-loop issue the second I enetered the second calibration point. I had to reboot and lost all my settings. So I had to start over.

I entered the freezing and boiling calibration points very carefully, and today I checked the room temperature. Like yourself, it was 2.5 F out!! After this carefull calibration, I would have expected it to be within a degree at most. There must be some consistent software error when calibrating.

I'm now wondering whether I should do a 2-pont calibration only for the range I'm interested in - about 120 - 175 F, or even 145-170 F.
 

SanPancho

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ah, misunderstood. i thought you'd already done it.


so i can attest to the +7F temp correction needed from factory setting. i only had a bit over a gallon in there probably, the false bottom probably had an inch of water over it. probe says 150, my thermometer says 157. figuring it was stratification-related, i turned on the pump. after a minute (no heating happening) the probe got to 153.6. so- was there cooler water on the bottom? and it mixed with hot water on top and averaged out? i.e. there is a 7F difference from top to bottom? or is the probe just off by 3.5F, with a 3.5F stratification? dunno.

i'll run the temp calibration, but first the unit downloaded a firmware update so i'll let that happen and then do calibration.
 

Bottoms_Up

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ah, misunderstood. i thought you'd already done it.


so i can attest to the +7F temp correction needed from factory setting. i only had a bit over a gallon in there probably, the false bottom probably had an inch of water over it. probe says 150, my thermometer says 157. figuring it was stratification-related, i turned on the pump. after a minute (no heating happening) the probe got to 153.6. so- was there cooler water on the bottom? and it mixed with hot water on top and averaged out? i.e. there is a 7F difference from top to bottom? or is the probe just off by 3.5F, with a 3.5F stratification? dunno.

i'll run the temp calibration, but first the unit downloaded a firmware update so i'll let that happen and then do calibration.
That's what I did on Friday, when I did my second calibration (see my last message). I used the reciculation pump when doing my readings to ensure the water at the probe and in the mash area were mixed through ciculation at about the same temperature, although I didn't recirculate durign boiling since there is already enough agitation through the boiling (also didn't want to overexpose the tube to excessive on the end of the recirculating arm). I did recirculate during the frozen cycle.

I'm curious whether you will also be out by about 2.5 - 3.0 degrees F after the calibration. If all three of us experience the same (first a 7 degree difference and then a 2.5 - 3.0 degree difference after calibration), then this cannot be coincidence or a rare occurence. I will contact Kegland again and tel them this is not some "rare" occurence, as they seem to believe. I think there's some factory calibration and software issues that need to be looked at. Maybe it only affects a certain lot of Brewzillas that got shipped out west.
 
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SanPancho

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That's what I did on Friday, when I did my second calibration (see my last message). I used the reciculation pump when doing my readings to ensure the water at the probe and in the mash are were mixed at the same temperature, although I didn't recirculate durign boiling since there is already enough agitation through the boiling (also didn't want to overexpose the tube to excessive on the end of the recirculating arm). I did recirculate during the frozen cycle.
I'm curious if you wil also be out by 2.5 - 3.0 degrees F after the calibration. If all three of us experience the same (first a 7 degree difference and then a 2.5 - 3.0 degree difference after calibration) I will contact Kegland again and tel them this is not som e"rare" occurence, as they seem to believe. I think there's some factory calibration and software issues that need to be looked at.
there's one other thing i noticed. scrolling through the settings menu on the unit, i noticed there is a setting called "allowed sensor differential" and mine is set to 4F. but there's no desciption at all of what exactly the differential is referring to, at least as far as i can see. the pdf of the manual doesnt even show that, on the one i downloaded it just says "C" .....
mabye that's the 3.5ish degree difference seen once you start recirc?

i'll also note that i set up a profile for cleaning. run to 150, hold. then step 2 is run for 5min, during which time i need to manually turn the pump on. set an alert to let me know its finished.

just now seeing that the "alert" i set up came to me via email. i was running the rapt off my desktop. i'll try it again later on my phone, but if the "notification" they're talking about is still coming via an email then i just got suckered into buying the stupid thing as i expected something along the lines of a notification message with some sort of alarm, sound, etc.
 

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there's one other thing i noticed. scrolling through the settings menu on the unit, i noticed there is a setting called "allowed sensor differential" and mine is set to 4F. but there's no desciption at all of what exactly the differential is referring to, at least as far as i can see. the pdf of the manual doesnt even show that, on the one i downloaded it just says "C" .....
mabye that's the 3.5ish degree difference seen once you start recirc?

i'll also note that i set up a profile for cleaning. run to 150, hold. then step 2 is run for 5min, during which time i need to manually turn the pump on. set an alert to let me know its finished.

just now seeing that the "alert" i set up came to me via email. i was running the rapt off my desktop. i'll try it again later on my phone, but if the "notification" they're talking about is still coming via an email then i just got suckered into buying the stupid thing as i expected something along the lines of a notification message with some sort of alarm, sound, etc.
I think the "differential" applies to something else. The manual is yet another thing I complained about a few months ago (I think I'm now on their "hit" list :) ). I told them there was no information on the meaning of all the defaults. They agreed at the time and the person said they would include it in their next update of the manual. I haven't noticed any change to date.

The alarm issue is of concern. I would rather hear an alarm - beep or whatever - directly from the Brewzilla than from a tablet or phone that I might not even be connected to at the time.

Another concern which needs to be straightened out is their RAPT app. If I set my Brewzilla to "Imperial", the Rapt app shows the information in Celsius (sometimes it momentarily gives the Fahenheit info) - but keeps the "F" symbol! What gives?? If they want to force you to use Celsius, despite the illusion that the Imperial option is available, then at least change the "F" to "C"!. Another software bug. The app doesn't like Fahrenheit for some reason. (Notice that the 2-point calibration can ONLY be done in Celsius as well).

This is something they could easily change as long as the software programmer knows what he's doing.
 

SanPancho

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I think the "differential" applies to something else. The manual is yet another thing I complained about a few months ago (I think I'm now on their "hit" list :) ). I told them there was no information on the meaning of all the defaults. They agreed at the time and the person said they would include it in their next update of the manual. I haven't noticed any change to date.

The alarm issue is of concern. I would rather hear an alarm - beep or whatever - directly from the Brewzilla than from a tablet or phone that I might not even be connected to at the time.

Another concern which needs to be straightened out is their RAPT app. If I set my Brewzilla to "Imperial", the Rapt app shows the information in Celsius (sometimes it momentarily gives the Fahenheit info) - but keeps the "F" symbol! What gives?? If they want to force you to use Celsius, despite the illusion that the Imperial option is available, then at least change the "F" to "C"!. Another software bug. The app doesn't like Fahrenheit for some reason. (Notice that the 2-point calibration can ONLY be done in Celsius as well).

This is something they could easily change as long as the software programmer knows what he's doing.
Ha. I noticed that too. First time I pulled up the rapt it told me the water was 17.8F !!

But I’ll fight you on the alerts. Brew room is in basement, don’t feel like hanging out down there. I want the phone alerts so I know when strike temp hits, boil starts, etc.
 
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