Brewzilla Gen4 Discussion/Tips Talk

[urbansombrero99]

The 110-120V 35L unit draws 12.5 amps at full power. It should not trip a 15A circuit breaker, if it is the only load on the circuit. A 20A circuit is recommended.

What other items do you have plugged into your garage outlets, and how many separate circuits (not outlets) are there in your garage? Are the garage outlets GFCI protected? They should be if the house is of newer construction. But if not, you need to add GFCI protection by changing an appropriate outlet.

I would never try to run a 120V appliance from a 240V outlet. The adapter you list connects the neutral and ground in order to function, and because of that I would rate it as: DO NOT EVER USE. It is especially dangerous around wet areas (anywhere you are brewing.) You cannot add GFCI protection when using this adapter.

Brew on

Thanks for your input, @doug293cz.
The house was built in the 60's and I have no idea if and when it was renovated. The outlets seem to my unprofessional eye very old, certainly not GFCI. There are two circuits I could identify: one is 20A, and has the washing machine and a fridge on it, as well as the laptop and monitors from my wife's office which is adjacent to the garage. Its breaker tripped even with both the washing machine and the fridge off. The second circuit is 15A and has a few lights on it (in the garage and the kitchen). From what I read here and in other places, it could be that the breakers could be "tired". I will have an electrician come take a look and hopefully help me get the BZ to work at last

 

[JoepH]

We seem to have a lot of customers wanting the 25Watt pump upgrade. Just out of interest if we just made the BrewZilla Gen 4 65L with the larger pump how many of you guys would prefer this? The retail price would end up being about $15 more expensive?

Generally speaking the smaller 6w pump is more than enough for most applications but some customers using counter flow or plate chillers may find the 25watt pump more desirable.

It would certainly be an improvement. Deliver it with, bluetooth thermometer, HED an 25 Watt pump and call it the Brewzilla gen4+

 

[Moto]

@KegLand or anyone else...Can you explain the purpose/logic behind the relay cycle time setting? The lowest value it can be set for is 5 seconds. Even with the heat set at 100%, the heating elements are on for 5 seconds and then off for 5 seconds. On the Gen 3s, when the heating elements were on they were on.

Unless I'm missing something, and it's quite possible I am, this seems like it would double the heating times and quickly use up the lifetime of the relays.

I just set this value to 3600, but the way this is behaving it seems like it's going to turn the elements off one hour into heating. Any guidance on this topic would be appreciated.

 

[KegLand]

Hi Everyone, I just got my BZ G4 35L 110V and this thread is fantastic, very helpful, and has already helped me a lot!
I plan to brew in my garage and so far all the outlets I connected my BZ to failed to stand up to the challenge, their breakers tripping. My last resort (before bringing in an electrician) is to connect it to the drier outlet, which is a NEMA 10-30. I found on Amazon what looks like a relevant adapter, I am just worried that the drier may be running on 240v (the specs say 120/240V) - any advice or suggestion would be highly welcome

You definitely can't plug the 110-120v BrewZilla Gen 4 into the 220-240V outlet. We do sell a specific BrewZilla 35L Gen 4 that is to suit the 220-240V but you really have to confirm with your distributor what you have purchased.

The BrewZilla is always labeled so this side with the voltage but as for your wall outlet you might want to pull out the trusty multimeter.

 

[KegLand]

@KegLand or anyone else...Can you explain the purpose/logic behind the relay cycle time setting? The lowest value it can be set for is 5 seconds. Even with the heat set at 100%, the heating elements are on for 5 seconds and then off for 5 seconds. On the Gen 3s, when the heating elements were on they were on.

Unless I'm missing something, and it's quite possible I am, this seems like it would double the heating times and quickly use up the lifetime of the relays.

I just set this value to 3600, but the way this is behaving it seems like it's going to turn the elements off one hour into heating. Any guidance on this topic would be appreciated.

During testing we cycled the relays 5 times per second (25times faster than what you can set in the settings of the device). We then overloaded the relays with 30amps (substantially more than what they are used.) We then cycled them on and off for months at this highly accelerated testing and confirmed that the relays in normal use would be able to handle more than 10 years of use without failure.

So given the extensive testing done on our end in overloaded conditions you really do not have to be concerned about that at all. We do supply replacement main boards too just incase but with that said we have not seen a single failure of this nature so far so it's really not a likely issue. Similarly we tested solid state relays too and due to the high heat conditions under the boiler the solid state relays were much less reliable.

5 second switching time is really very conservative given the extensive testing we have done. This switching time limit also applies to the PID setting too so the PID will not allow you to switch the relays faster than this minimum switching speed. I should also say the switching is generally limited to one element most of the time. For instance if you set the power to 53% then the main element will stay on but the 500watt element will just cycle on so only one out of the three relays will be switching in that instance. The algorithm will determine the least required switching to maintain the desired level of power by using the different elements that are available (these are different for all three BrewZilla 35, 65, and 100L models)

Also if you are using 100% heat and not using the PID then the elements will stay on 100% of the time as you would logically expect. If your elements are turning off then I am guessing that it's due to the PID algorithm.

 

[amr]

Did a brew with the Gen 4 35 yeasterday - a 10L batch of a NEIPA. Used the HED and Bluetooth thermometer for the first time.

Setup:

• Brewzilla Gen 4 35 L (240V) with the new Heat Exchanger Dish
• During the mash, put the top plate on and the BT probe went in the middle
• Thermometer probe was the primary temp controller
• Recirc arm was on throughout the mash

Some observations:

• the temp in the thermometer probe was always higher than the inbuilt probe (would have expected this to be the other way - potential calibration issues in the inbuilt probe?)
• Disabled PID. Temperature ramp was quite good and overshooting was minimal. In fact, it hardly heated at all over the 60 minute mash (at 65) since it seemed to be maintaining temperature. This has never been the case without the HED and with the inbuilt probe as the default (in all my previous brews)
• Profile downloaded form the RAPT cloud works flawlessly. The new alerts are nice - especially the custom message that one can put in
• Post mashing, a vigorous boil happens at close to 97c itself and in an attempt to control it to a rolling boil, tried to decrease temp. from time to time which only led it to become too docile. Again, perhaps a temperature calibration issue (since I was only using the inbuilt element and not the BT probe during the boil)
• The supplied immersion chiller is not great but does a decent job
• First brew where I did not use the jacket but did not see much temp. fluctuation in the mash.

Overall, I think it was a fairly good brew day. What probably surprised me the most was the inbuilt element showing a lesser temperature than the BT probe but that might well be because of a calibration issue.

P.S: In case anyone is interested, the recipe is here.

 

[doug293cz]

You cannot control boil vigor by adjusting the setpoint temperature. Boiling happens at a fixed temperature (depending on atmospheric pressure, and the composition of the solution.) Adjust the PID setpoint below the "natural" boiling temp, and you won't boil at all. Set the setpoint higher than the natural boiling temp, and you will boil at full power. Nothing you can do will change the physics of this situation.

To adjust boil vigor, you must adjust to power to the heating element, and this must be done manually (unless you have a way to sense boil vigor to feed back to a controller. I don't know of any homebrew boil vigor sensors.) I don't use a BZ, so don't know if it has a manual power setting mode in addition to the PID mode, but it should.

Brew on

 

[adyb]

Did a brew with the Gen 4 35 yeasterday - a 10L batch of a NEIPA. Used the HED and Bluetooth thermometer for the first time.

Setup:

• Brewzilla Gen 4 35 L (240V) with the new Heat Exchanger Dish
• During the mash, put the top plate on and the BT probe went in the middle
• Thermometer probe was the primary temp controller
• Recirc arm was on throughout the mash

Some observations:

• the temp in the thermometer probe was always higher than the inbuilt probe (would have expected this to be the other way - potential calibration issues in the inbuilt probe?)
• Disabled PID. Temperature ramp was quite good and overshooting was minimal. In fact, it hardly heated at all over the 60 minute mash (at 65) since it seemed to be maintaining temperature. This has never been the case without the HED and with the inbuilt probe as the default (in all my previous brews)
• Profile downloaded form the RAPT cloud works flawlessly. The new alerts are nice - especially the custom message that one can put in
• Post mashing, a vigorous boil happens at close to 97c itself and in an attempt to control it to a rolling boil, tried to decrease temp. from time to time which only led it to become too docile. Again, perhaps a temperature calibration issue (since I was only using the inbuilt element and not the BT probe during the boil)
• The supplied immersion chiller is not great but does a decent job
• First brew where I did not use the jacket but did not see much temp. fluctuation in the mash.

Overall, I think it was a fairly good brew day. What probably surpriseid me the most was the inbuilt element showing a lesser temperature than the BT probe but that might well be because of a calibration issue.

P.S: In case anyone is interested, the recipe is here.

If you are boiling at 97c then it looks like your calibration is out, which probably explains why the temp in your probe is higher than the inbuilt sensor.

 

[garm]

5 second switching time is really very conservative given the extensive testing we have done. This switching time limit also applies to the PID setting too so the PID will not allow you to switch the relays faster than this minimum switching speed.

I haven't found this to be the case, at least as of 6 months ago when I did PID testing. Maybe a firmware update has changed things.

If I set the hysteresis to 0.0F I can hear the relays clicking on and off multiple times a second. 0.2F works fine for me and they cycle at a reasonable interval. Personally I like not having the 5 second restriction and keeping an accurate temperature, so I hope this doesn't get "fixed". Maybe a 1 second minimum cycle timer that can be set below the default of 5 is reasonable for everyone?

On the topic of firmware updates, can we please get the update notes somewhere besides a facebook page that needs a login?

 

[KegLand]

You cannot control boil vigor by adjusting the setpoint temperature. Boiling happens at a fixed temperature (depending on atmospheric pressure, and the composition of the solution.) Adjust the PID setpoint below the "natural" boiling temp, and you won't boil at all. Set the setpoint higher than the natural boiling temp, and you will boil at full power. Nothing you can do will change the physics of this situation.

To adjust boil vigor, you must adjust to power to the heating element, and this must be done manually (unless you have a way to sense boil vigor to feed back to a controller. I don't know of any homebrew boil vigor sensors.) I don't use a BZ, so don't know if it has a manual power setting mode in addition to the PID mode, but it should.

Brew on

Yes I would agree with this. You cannot control the boil vigor with the set temp. The set temp should always be set to above the boil temp depending on your altitude so you force the elements on. The BrewZilla Gen 4 has a power percentage and you can set the power percentage to control the boil vigor that way as Doug293cz has suggested.

I should also say we are working on more complex profile management in the future that you can set the power percentage in the profile.

Furthermore if you are concerned about boil overs I have found that one trick that seems to work for me is just continuing to cycle the pump during the boil. I am not sure if you guys have found this but I do not seem to get boil overs when the pump is cycling during the boil. The second benefit of this is that it continues to dump any small particulates that get past the 2mm holes in the screen and clears the wort up more too.

 

[KegLand]

I haven't found this to be the case, at least as of 6 months ago when I did PID testing. Maybe a firmware update has changed things.

If I set the hysteresis to 0.0F I can hear the relays clicking on and off multiple times a second. 0.2F works fine for me and they cycle at a reasonable interval. Personally I like not having the 5 second restriction and keeping an accurate temperature, so I hope this doesn't get "fixed". Maybe a 1 second minimum cycle timer that can be set below the default of 5 is reasonable for everyone?

On the topic of firmware updates, can we please get the update notes somewhere besides a facebook page that needs a login?

I think you may be overlooking the fact that this 5 sec is a complete cycle of on/off. It's 5sec per relay too not 5 sec cycle time for all relays. We have three relays on the main board that control the separate elements independently. Given that the cast aluminum element is more than 1kg on the base of the BrewZilla this significant thermal mass is enough to smooth out temperature fluctuations. This is especially the case given that we are already close to the desired power setting even without cycling any elements due to the algorithm generally holding one or two of the elements on all the time then just pulsing one or two elements to keep the power at the correct percentage power. We do not see any need to reduce the cycle time lower than 5 sec at this stage.

 

[Teufelhunde]

If you are boiling at 97c then it looks like your calibration is out, which probably explains why the temp in your probe is higher than the inbuilt sensor.

Boil temp is dependent on altitude. If he is not at sea level then his boil temp will be lower than 100c

 

[Moto]

Unfortunately, this is not how it is working with the latest firmware.

Also if you are using 100% heat and not using the PID then the elements will stay on 100% of the time as you would logically expect. If your elements are turning off then I am guessing that it's due to the PID algorithm.

With the Relay cycle time set to 5 seconds, PID disabled, and heat set to 100%, a relay cycles every 5 seconds.

With PID enabled (P: 0.68 I: 0.001 D: 0
Hysteresis 0.1°F), this setting is fighting with the algorithm when there is a large difference between the target and actual temperatures. For example, start heating 12 gallons of water @ 59°F to a target of 148°F. The algorithm should be running all the elements at full power from the start, but it cycles an element every 5 seconds.

I don't remember either behavior in the previous firmware version.

 

[mashdar]

We seem to have a lot of customers wanting the 25Watt pump upgrade. Just out of interest if we just made the BrewZilla Gen 4 65L with the larger pump how many of you guys would prefer this? The retail price would end up being about $15 more expensive?

Generally speaking the smaller 6w pump is more than enough for most applications but some customers using counter flow or plate chillers may find the 25watt pump more desirable.

How much for a VFD/ECM? (joke; ball valve is fine.)

I agree with stealthfixr the current pump is plenty for recirc and open transfer. Counterflow case is interesting, but clashes with packaged IC.

Do they make little 3-speed pumps? Probably too costly?

edit: It sounds to me like people are already smashing their grain beds with 6W full throttle. The forums might be ablaze with a 20W default.

 

[Moto]

Could you give a bit more detail about how to get into the firmware reset screen? I tried to do this, but was only successful in unintentionally resetting the controller. I tried up+down+back+enter and various other combinations, but could not figure it out.

If you want to get into the boot menu you can get options to rollback firmware, upgrade firmware, reset the controller, delete NVS or do other basic tasks you can get into this menu by:
1. Unplug power
2. Hold down the up down arrows and also the cycle and enter button all at the same time while plugging into the power point.
(this is really best done with a friend to help you)

 

[KegLand]

Unfortunately, this is not how it is working with the latest firmware.

With the Relay cycle time set to 5 seconds, PID disabled, and heat set to 100%, a relay cycles every 5 seconds.

With PID enabled (P: 0.68 I: 0.001 D: 0
Hysteresis 0.1°F), this setting is fighting with the algorithm when there is a large difference between the target and actual temperatures. For example, start heating 12 gallons of water @ 59°F to a target of 148°F. The algorithm should be running all the elements at full power from the start, but it cycles an element every 5 seconds.

I don't remember either behavior in the previous firmware version.

Are you sure you are not talking about the pump relay. Can you set the pump on 100% also and then see if you can hear any relays cycling. If the heating is on 100% and you have PID turned off then it will force all heating relays to stay on 100% of the time (unless you are hitting the set temp). Is there any chance you can take a video of this showing the screen and then sending this to us with your MAC address.

 

[KegLand]

Could you give a bit more detail about how to get into the firmware reset screen? I tried to do this, but was only successful in unintentionally resetting the controller. I tried up+down+back+enter and various other combinations, but could not figure it out.

If you want to just delete the non-volatile memory and do a factory reset this will do that:

1. Unplug power
2. Hold down the up down arrows and also the cycle and enter button all at the same time while plugging into the power point.
(this is really best done with a friend to help you)


If you want to get into the boot loader and then use the boot loader screen to rollback firmware, or download new firmware or check other diagnostics then you can do this:
1. Unplug power
2. Hold down all 4 buttons (up, down, select, back) all at the same time while plugging into the power point.
(this is really best done with a friend to help you)

 

[morpheusda]

the temp in the thermometer probe was always higher than the inbuilt probe (would have expected this to be the other way - potential calibration issues in the inbuilt probe?)

What probably surprised me the most was the inbuilt element showing a lesser temperature than the BT probe but that might well be because of a calibration issue.

this is what i been talking about, that the inbuilt probe show me lower temperature then the 2 inkbirds for around 1,5 to 2 C.
I tried to calibrate it without no success.
Is this intentional maybe to show lower temperature?
so that compensate for temperature in malt pipe?

 

[morpheusda]

This is what puzzles me.

 

[Moto]

Are you sure you are not talking about the pump relay. Can you set the pump on 100% also and then see if you can hear any relays cycling. If the heating is on 100% and you have PID turned off then it will force all heating relays to stay on 100% of the time (unless you are hitting the set temp). Is there any chance you can take a video of this showing the screen and then sending this to us with your MAC address.

Here is a video where you can see the setting and hear the relays (forgive the background noise).

For resetting the firmware, do I release all four buttons as the screen first turns blue, keep them depressed until I see the splash screen or something else?

 

[private4587]

I used the 3.1.1. If using s lot of grain, I add a half handful of rice hulls every 3-4 lbs. If the grain is more than can really fit, I split it up into a reiterated mash. And I manually dial down the speed on the pump during the mash until I can visually confirm the liquid level is not rising (the flow rate is different for different mashes).

hi I know this is an old thread but if your doing a reiterated mash could you explain how you went about calculating your water volumes for the various steps

 

[KegLand]

this is what i been talking about, that the inbuilt probe show me lower temperature then the 2 inkbirds for around 1,5 to 2 C.
I tried to calibrate it without no success.
Is this intentional maybe to show lower temperature?
so that compensate for temperature in malt pipe?

From our experience it's just got to do with the probe position and how the wort is flowing. The most likely cause of the difference is that your inkbird probes are simply not in the same position as the inbuilt probe.

For instance if you were to get this probe here:

BrewZilla Gen3 Replacement Thermistor / Temperature Probe

Damaged up your probe? or had a tinker and the wire snapped? Go on then, buy a probe. We won't tell anybody. Comes with a nut for other applications, plus a silicone wash connected to the probe itself. Could be used as a fermenter probe!

www.kegland.com.au

Then connect with the controller to this probe hanging outside the brewery instead and measure the temp of this probe with your inkbirds right next to each other the reading would be the same. But this probe is mounted to the base of the boiler and i doubt that you have your inkbird probes in the same position.

 

[adyb]

4

Did a brew with the Gen 4 35 yeasterday - a 10L batch of a NEIPA. Used the HED and Bluetooth thermometer for the first time.

Setup:

• Brewzilla Gen 4 35 L (240V) with the new Heat Exchanger Dish
• During the mash, put the top plate on and the BT probe went in the middle
• Thermometer probe was the primary temp controller
• Recirc arm was on throughout the mash

Some observations:

• the temp in the thermometer probe was always higher than the inbuilt probe (would have expected this to be the other way - potential calibration issues in the inbuilt probe?)
• Disabled PID. Temperature ramp was quite good and overshooting was minimal. In fact, it hardly heated at all over the 60 minute mash (at 65) since it seemed to be maintaining temperature. This has never been the case without the HED and with the inbuilt probe as the default (in all my previous brews)
• Profile downloaded form the RAPT cloud works flawlessly. The new alerts are nice - especially the custom message that one can put in
• Post mashing, a vigorous boil happens at close to 97c itself and in an attempt to control it to a rolling boil, tried to decrease temp. from time to time which only led it to become too docile. Again, perhaps a temperature calibration issue (since I was only using the inbuilt element and not the BT probe during the boil)
• The supplied immersion chiller is not great but does a decent job
• First brew where I did not use the jacket but did not see much temp. fluctuation in the mash.

Overall, I think it was a fairly good brew day. What probably surprised me the most was the inbuilt element showing a lesser temperature than the BT probe but that might well be because of a calibration issue.

P.S: In case anyone is interested, the recipe is here.

Just completed first proper brew with HED and bluetooth thermometer. I found the same with the inbuilt probe showing a lower temp. I didn't expect this either. However, I think the accuracy of the inbuilt probe is rubbish despite calibrating about 4 times it always seems out around mash temps where you need it.

I tried using PID but kept overshooting so disabled this and switched to 25% power(23l brew). I found the temp would swing 0.5c either way of target using this method. There are no good guides to setting up the PID so it actually works properly so who knows if i had this right.

Overall, after a number of brews on this system, it just seems disappointing and doesn't seem to work quite as intended. The PID system just lacks any guides and full instructions on how to set up correctly. And as for the internal temp probe..........

 

[KegLand]

4

Just completed first proper brew with HED and bluetooth thermometer. I found the same with the inbuilt probe showing a lower temp. I didn't expect this either. However, I think the accuracy of the inbuilt probe is rubbish despite calibrating about 4 times it always seems out around mash temps where you need it.

I tried using PID but kept overshooting so disabled this and switched to 25% power(23l brew). I found the temp would swing 0.5c either way of target using this method. There are no good guides to setting up the PID so it actually works properly so who knows if i had this right.

Overall, after a number of brews on this system, it just seems disappointing and doesn't seem to work quite as intended. The PID system just lacks any guides and full instructions on how to set up correctly. And as for the internal temp probe..........

If you use the Bluetooth thermometer there is really no need for the PID setting to be honest. The brewery has been designed specifically so if you use the Bluetooth thermometer then you can allow the temperature to increase at the bottom of the brewery to exceed the set point so that you can target the core malt pipe temperature and get to this malt pipe temperature faster. So to focus on the probe that is mounted in the base seems to be the wrong way of looking at this as it's the temperature of the malt pipe where the bulk of the reaction is taking place. This is in essence the reason for the bluetooth probe. You should not be brewing with this equipment trying to get a very even temperature near the element. This is a futile objective. The whole idea is to target a specific temperature in the malt pipe.

With that said, we made a video to explain how to tune the PID function and this is a good start if you feel some necessity to use PID. In order for a PID function to be useful it will never be a simple on/off switch. I have seen other breweries with PID function that simply reduce the power substantially and this is not real PID control and it's not very useful to be honest. I might ad that if you study engineering you can study a whole part of the course just on PID control because it is necessarily complex in order to be useful. Any decent PID function then it needs to be tuned for your particular type of brewing, pump speed, batch size, and even the flow rate of wort through the malt pipe will effect this. What PID tuning have you done so far? If you tell me more about how you tuned your PID settings I can try and assist you to improve your settings if you like.

Is there any chance you can send me the last 4 digits of your MAC address so I can better understand how the system is working for you? If I better understand how you are using the system may be able to give more helpful advice.

 

[adyb]

If you use the Bluetooth thermometer there is really no need for the PID setting to be honest. The brewery has been designed specifically so if you use the Bluetooth thermometer then you can allow the temperature to increase at the bottom of the brewery to exceed the set point so that you can target the core malt pipe temperature and get to this malt pipe temperature faster. So to focus on the probe that is mounted in the base seems to be the wrong way of looking at this as it's the temperature of the malt pipe where the bulk of the reaction is taking place. This is in essence the reason for the bluetooth probe. You should not be brewing with this equipment trying to get a very even temperature near the element. This is a futile objective. The whole idea is to target a specific temperature in the malt pipe.

With that said, we made a video to explain how to tune the PID function and this is a good start if you feel some necessity to use PID. In order for a PID function to be useful it will never be a simple on/off switch. I have seen other breweries with PID function that simply reduce the power substantially and this is not real PID control and it's not very useful to be honest. I might ad that if you study engineering you can study a whole part of the course just on PID control because it is necessarily complex in order to be useful. Any decent PID function then it needs to be tuned for your particular type of brewing, pump speed, batch size, and even the flow rate of wort through the malt pipe will effect this. What PID tuning have you done so far? If you tell me more about how you tuned your PID settings I can try and assist you to improve your settings if you like.

Is there any chance you can send me the last 4 digits of your MAC address so I can better understand how the system is working for you? If I better understand how you are using the system may be able to give more helpful advice.

Thanks for the reply and yes its the blue tooth probe temp that i was targeting and expected to see a differnce between the 2 probes expecially when moving to mash out. Does the PID not run using the probe temp? So if using the Bluetooth probe should you not use pid in order to maintain the temp at the probe(mashpipe) or are you saying its better to adjust the heating element power to maintain it?

-00-ef are the last digits of my mac address.

So I had set my PID settings using david heaths method for my last brew. The settings were
P 420
I 0.002
D 0
This for a mash of 5.44kg with 18.6l of liquor.
On a 35l gen 4 fitted with hed and jacket. Recirc pump was almost fully on.
I switched PID off as it seemed to be overshooting at the bluetooth probe amd reduced the element power.
During mashout I changed the PID back to default and turned it back on and this seemed to maintain the temp better but I didn't have long enough left to known for sure.

 

[amr]

If you use the Bluetooth thermometer there is really no need for the PID setting to be honest. The brewery has been designed specifically so if you use the Bluetooth thermometer then you can allow the temperature to increase at the bottom of the brewery to exceed the set point so that you can target the core malt pipe temperature and get to this malt pipe temperature faster. So to focus on the probe that is mounted in the base seems to be the wrong way of looking at this as it's the temperature of the malt pipe where the bulk of the reaction is taking place. This is in essence the reason for the bluetooth probe. You should not be brewing with this equipment trying to get a very even temperature near the element. This is a futile objective. The whole idea is to target a specific temperature in the malt pipe.

With that said, we made a video to explain how to tune the PID function and this is a good start if you feel some necessity to use PID. In order for a PID function to be useful it will never be a simple on/off switch. I have seen other breweries with PID function that simply reduce the power substantially and this is not real PID control and it's not very useful to be honest. I might ad that if you study engineering you can study a whole part of the course just on PID control because it is necessarily complex in order to be useful. Any decent PID function then it needs to be tuned for your particular type of brewing, pump speed, batch size, and even the flow rate of wort through the malt pipe will effect this. What PID tuning have you done so far? If you tell me more about how you tuned your PID settings I can try and assist you to improve your settings if you like.

Is there any chance you can send me the last 4 digits of your MAC address so I can better understand how the system is working for you? If I better understand how you are using the system may be able to give more helpful advice.

Hullo! Thank you for being so responsive on the forum. As @adyb said, it is curious that the BT probe temp is higher than the inbuilt probe but, the more I think about it, the only likely scenario seems to be that the inbuilt probe's temp is off (A vigorous boil at 97c - at sea level) seems to probably corroborate this as well.

 

[rtstrider]

This just showed up in the middle of the brew. Curious to know what all this includes!

 

[Moto]

If you want to just delete the non-volatile memory and do a factory reset this will do that:

1. Unplug power
2. Hold down the up down arrows and also the cycle and enter button all at the same time while plugging into the power point.
(this is really best done with a friend to help you)


If you want to get into the boot loader and then use the boot loader screen to rollback firmware, or download new firmware or check other diagnostics then you can do this:
1. Unplug power
2. Hold down all 4 buttons (up, down, select, back) all at the same time while plugging into the power point.
(this is really best done with a friend to help you)

DO NOT follow the instructions above for getting into the bootloader on the Brewzilla, as they are not correct (at least with the latest firmware loaded). If you do try this, you will only succeed in resetting the controller (including the calibration settings). The above steps do work on the new Temperature Controller.

To get into the Brewzilla bootloader, you will actually need to press all six buttons on the controller at the same time when plugging it in, which is a little tricky even with two people. Keep all the buttons pressed until you see the boot loader screen pop up. If you release any of the non arrow buttons even for a moment while the controller is powering up, you will just reset the controller. If the system prompts you for the input voltage, then you will know that you have reset the controller. It took some trial an error to unlock the puzzle, so hopefully this saves someone from the same level of annoyance I experienced trying to figure it out.

Attached is a picture of the bootloader screen. You navigate the selection with the arrow keys, then initiate the selection by pressing the enter key.

@KegLand previously suggested the possibility of a corrupted firmware update. Based on my weird relay cycling at 100% heat following a firmware update, it seems there is also always a possibility for one of the settings to get corrupted as well. In my case, everything went back to normal after a controller reset. Any software update always has the possibility of going a bit sideways, which is why it is always good practice to back up your files/settings. You might want to write down or take a picture of any settings you spent some time working out.

One final note about the firmware updates. Currently, it seems the only way to stop the firmware from auto updating is to turn off the Wi-Fi. This means that if you roll back to the previous firmware version, the controller just goes and grabs the update again the next time it powers up. This is particularly problematic given that nobody has been successful yet in getting any firmware release notes or information. Just be aware that if you use your device with the RAPT portal, you are currently opting in to mystery updates that you cannot decline. Hopefully our friends at Kegland will add an option to turn off auto Firmware updates.

 

[Moto]

Several people have experienced great challenges trying to calibrate the temperature on their Gen 4 and unfortunately, I have as well.

I followed the Kegland video beginning to end several times – ice water for Calibration point 1 and boiling water for Calibration point 2 (factoring in the boiling temperature for my altitude and the barometric pressure at the time). The result was a reading 6*F above actual at 100*F and 4*F above actual at 160*F. The discussion on here always seems to turn to buying a Bluetooth thermometer to improve mash temperature control, when people are experiencing problems simply calibrating with water. While I do have a Bluetooth thermometer on the way, I am not going to float it just to get an accurate strike water reading.

After a full day of calibrating and recalibrating, the solution for me was to reset the calibration settings, which reverts the NTC settings back to default. I set Calibration point 1 at 120*F, then checked the temperature at 140*F, 160*F, and 170*F. The temperature tracked perfectly against my analogue reference thermometer over the range, so I did not set Calibration point 2. I understand the point behind a two-point calibration and sometimes simpler is better.

If you are struggling with calibration, you might want to consider starting with a clean slate and focusing on the temperature range that really matters.

 

[Corey Foust]

Can you please send a photo of how you are measuring the temperature difference?

We do not have plans to make it possible to change the curve but I doubt that is the issue. I think it will have more to do with the difference between the probe position in the base of the boiler and the probe that you are using to measure the temperature.

I have done 7 batches and found the temp setting 20+ degrees off but not across all temps. On my initial batch I set mash temp on BZ 4.0 65L to 154 degrees, the actual temps taken with 2 independent gauges read 170 degrees. This was in a 5 gal batch with less than 10 pounds of grain. I had to set the BZ to 126 degrees to give me 154. On the flip side when I went to boil I set my temp to 212 and it would not boil until I set the BZ to 218. That is a odd swing in readings. I tried to recalibrate my temps and must have done something wrong as it is off even more now. Can anyone help?

 

[Neldog0]

Just pre-ordered a Gen4 65L from my LBS and excited to upgrade from my 3.1.1 65L Brewzilla. Many of the tips and tricks from (what I will call) the Gen3 HBT discussion thread were very helpful when I had just transitioned to the Brewzilla process. So, I thought a dedicated Gen4 thread for those new 35L & 65L owners should help shorten the learning curve for all of us, and not dilute the Gen3 thread.

Who of us will get their Gen4 first? Please post your experiences and "wish I had known that sooner" learning points here.

I recalibrated my Gen4. I have done this several times an my last attempt was from the bottom temp first.
Go to”Forget Calibration” and save.
Next: put 3 gal of water into the kettle.
Set a calibrated probe in the water and turn heating elements on. A note to remember: We mash-in from somewhere in the 140f to 150f ranges. You heat up for Cal1 to your lowest mash-in temp. I set mine to 139f. When I hit the temp of 140f I turned my elements off, waited for the overshoot, then when it settled @ 139f I saved Cal1 and saved.
Next: go to Cal2, start the elements & bring it to a rolling boil & save.
Note: DO NOT GO BACK INTO YOUR CALIBRATIONS ONCE YOU HAVE THEM. Otherwise you will have to start over.

By tightening up the range of calibration you increase the rate of repeatability by up to 46%.

As such, I use a probe to monitor m Mash up temp, & I have the heat exchanger installed. The exchanger smooths out the overshoots & provides a more manageable mash-in By doing this I manage both Mash-in & Mash- out within +\- 2f.

Note: please adjust you heating percentages and run you recirc pump during your mashing

 

[KegLand]

I have done 7 batches and found the temp setting 20+ degrees off but not across all temps. On my initial batch I set mash temp on BZ 4.0 65L to 154 degrees, the actual temps taken with 2 independent gauges read 170 degrees. This was in a 5 gal batch with less than 10 pounds of grain. I had to set the BZ to 126 degrees to give me 154. On the flip side when I went to boil I set my temp to 212 and it would not boil until I set the BZ to 218. That is a odd swing in readings. I tried to recalibrate my temps and must have done something wrong as it is off even more now. Can anyone help?

Is it possible to take photos of what you are doing and how you are measuring temperature. For instance take photos of where you are putting the probe when taking the readings.

All breweries have temperature differential at various different parts of the brewery. To better understand your issue it's best for you to send us photos of how you are calibrating and taking measurements.

 

[rtstrider]

For those that have used the Heat Exchanger Dish has this helped at all with the stuck mash circulation issues or is it more or less for more accurate temp readings/evening out temps? I do plan on investing in this, however, it is currently out of stock at morebeer.

 

[JoepH]

The HED is primairily for a better heat exchange with the heating elements. Faster and better heating. The Bluetooth thermometer overrides the build in probe. In that way mashing is much, much better. Invest in both and you will have a perfect system. I’v got the 65L gen4. Last batch op 42 liter went perfect.

 

[rtstrider]

The HED is primairily for a better heat exchange with the heating elements. Faster and better heating. The Bluetooth thermometer overrides the build in probe. In that way mashing is much, much better. Invest in both and you will have a perfect system. I’v got the 65L gen4. Last batch op 42 liter went perfect.

I'm still having issues with stuck mashes. I have some pre crushed grain from a brewery that uses a three tier system with recirculation. Going to invest in both the HED and Bluetooth thermometer as soon as they're available at the same time from morebeer

 

[JoepH]

Never had a stuck mash. I set my mill at 1,35 mm. Per 5 kg fermentables I use 1 liter rice huls, The top plate i use only when sparging.

 

[rtstrider]

Never had a stuck mash. I set my mill at 1,35 mm. Per 5 kg fermentables I use 1 liter rice huls, The top plate i use only when sparging.

Still trying to figure this out. The brewery grind looks to be a bit on the coarse side so going to run with that and rice hulls. I think I'm used to much finer grinds with the old 3 tier system with no recirculation. I've done some reading and it seems these all in one units, with recirculation, may require a coarser grind. We will see

I've set my grain mill to .035 for the time being. Will be using that in a couple of brews after I run out of this pre crushed sack.

 

[JoepH]

Never had a stuck mash. I set my mill at 1,35 mm. Per 5 kg fermentables I use 1 liter rice huls, The top plate i use only when sparging.

 

[JoepH]

0.035 inch is 0.88 mm that is much to fine for an all in one recurculation system. You will end with a stuck mash garanteed. You will learn from experians.

 

[rtstrider]

0.035 inch is 0.88 mm that is much to fine for an all in one recurculation system. You will end with a stuck mash garanteed. You will learn from experians.

I just widened the gap to .039 which is .991mm. Is that too fine still?