Brewtarget 2.0 Update

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mikfire

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On the brewday tab, where it lists your efficiency into BK, Projected OG, Brewhouse Efficiency etc....what exactly does it mean if it says your efficiency is too high for style? For example, I brewed an American Pale Ale with a brewhouse efficiency of 74.39% and it is colored red and when I hover over it, it says the efficiency is too high for the style.
The colors at that point are to indicate if you +/- 10% of what the recipe was calculated for. I reused the code from the other displays, and they have that as the standard hover message. I will see if I can find an easy way to fix it.

Mik
 

geckholm

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ok, that makes sense. Started crushing my own grains and saw efficiency improvements that would cause that.

Thanks!
 

12thKnight

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Question to the devs:

I have a custom 3 keggle set up for 10gallons. I used the specific heat and mass of stainless steel in the configuration when I set it up. I said ambient temp is around 60 for the steel (which it is, on my thermometers). I have ~20 pounds of grain for an average batch, at 68 degrees.

I put in that I want a mash of 152 degrees (example) and it says I should have a strike water of 165 or so. When I execute, the actual grain + water temp is ~148.

What settings / variables should I change to actually get 152 (4 degrees higher) for the mash temp?
 

jflongo

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Question to the devs:

I have a custom 3 keggle set up for 10gallons. I used the specific heat and mass of stainless steel in the configuration when I set it up. I said ambient temp is around 60 for the steel (which it is, on my thermometers). I have ~20 pounds of grain for an average batch, at 68 degrees.

I put in that I want a mash of 152 degrees (example) and it says I should have a strike water of 165 or so. When I execute, the actual grain + water temp is ~148.

What settings / variables should I change to actually get 152 (4 degrees higher) for the mash temp?
A good rule of thump is 15 degrees above the mash temp. So shoot for 167 for strike water, maybe a hair higher with that much grain.
 

12thKnight

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A good rule of thump is 15 degrees above the mash temp. So shoot for 167 for strike water, maybe a hair higher with that much grain.
Hm, but I want it to use the facts and figures to give me the actual value, based on specific heats of multiple substances. There is possibly a small heat-loss to the frame of the sculpture, but I would be surprised that it was 4 degrees.

Rather than rule of thumbing, I am trying to get brew-target to mathematically calculate the temperatures, especially important with variable recipe sizes : )
 

swstim

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What settings / variables should I change to actually get 152 (4 degrees higher) for the mash temp?
I have the same issue with a similar setup. Increase the mass of your setup to account for it. Are you heating in the HLT and transferring to the MLT? You need to account for the mass of the transfer hoses/fittings/valves/pumps/etc depending on your setup. Also, at least for me, temp stratification is bad enough in my HLT to throw the whole works off by several degrees if I just heat and go. HTH
 

12thKnight

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I have the same issue with a similar setup. Increase the mass of your setup to account for it. Are you heating in the HLT and transferring to the MLT? You need to account for the mass of the transfer hoses/fittings/valves/pumps/etc depending on your setup. Also, at least for me, temp stratification is bad enough in my HLT to throw the whole works off by several degrees if I just heat and go. HTH
Hm : / I am using a setup kind of like this;

Code:
|--|
|--|
|--|    
        |--|     |--|
        |--|     |--|
        |--|     |--|
HLT      MLT      BK
The hose from hlt->mlt is about 7" long made of silicone. Water has a massive specific heat, I am not sure that is the problem, considering the distance traveled is 7".

I will try increasing the mass of the system components. I thought 29.7 pounds was sufficient per keg. What # are you using for weight?

As an aside: I am using a recirculating mash system so I can get up to the proper temps, but I'd like to be at the proper temps to start : )
 

eulipion2

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Using BrewTarget 2.0.0 for Mac OS X. I set the equipment to '5 gal extract - full boil' and the batch size is set to 5 gal. However, the calculated batch size is 5.804 gallons. If I toggle over to '5 gal extract - partial boil' it says the same thing. How can I reset this option without having to reenter the recipe?
 

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Can you explain this to me it's a little confusing with adding in Corn sugar. I just made an All Grain IPA, and added in 1lb of Corn Sugar as well. No matter where I put it, it put the Pre Boil Gravity at 1.060, where mine was at 1.052 since the Sugar went in with 5 minutes left in the boil, not at the start of the boil, which this calculated it at. While the final gravity was fine, it project it to be 1.072, and I ended up at 1.070, so the brewhouse eff was a little over 80% which is good.

Is there a way to adjust adding corn sugar in, like you do with hops, and tell it just 5 minutes in the boil, and have it do the gravity correct? I may have missed something, just couldn't figure out how to do this, and then generate instructions for it properly. Everything elses worked fine.
 

skunk27

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No matter where I put it, it put the Pre Boil Gravity at 1.060, where mine was at 1.052 since the Sugar went in with 5 minutes left in the boil, not at the start of the boil, which this calculated it at. While the final gravity was fine, it project it to be 1.072, and I ended up at 1.070, so the brewhouse eff was a little over 80% which is good.
I've noticed something similar since 2.0 came out, both in created recipes and those imported from the older version. The pre-boil gravity doesn't seem to be calculating properly, it's often way too high, even higher than the OG. My equipment profile with boil off rates are set up correctly, and when I follow the recipe the pre-boil gravity is considerably (but not surprisingly) lower although the OG works out as predicted.

I've attached a screenshot to illustrate.

bt.jpg
 

mikfire

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I've noticed something similar since 2.0 came out, both in created recipes and those imported from the older version. The pre-boil gravity doesn't seem to be calculating properly, it's often way too high, even higher than the OG. My equipment profile with boil off rates are set up correctly, and when I follow the recipe the pre-boil gravity is considerably (but not surprisingly) lower although the OG works out as predicted.

I've attached a screenshot to illustrate.
Work has gotten really nuts lately. I will look into this as soon as things calm down a little bit.
 

skunk27

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Work has gotten really nuts lately. I will look into this as soon as things calm down a little bit.
Thanks a lot for your work here.

One more small suggestion, maybe extend the percentages in the fermentables to have at least one decimal place so small quantities can be more distinguishable. :mug:
 

danb35

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Any timeline on getting the Mac 2.0.1 release out? I see it's out for Windows and Linux. Thanks for the work on this!
 

brkoerner

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Have version 2.0.1 and it wont calculate IBUs from mash hops. Anyone else have this issue?
 

danb35

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Looking around a bit more, it looks like your download link for Mac goes to sourceforge.net, where the latest version is 2.0.0. Download links for other OSs go to launchpad.net, where the latest version is 2.0.1, and a Mac package of 2.0.1 is also available. Interesting--looks like your download links may need to be fixed.
 

pbuelow

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The latest Mac image doesn't work. At this time, to get the latest you need to build from source. Unfortunately, the two of us who build for the Mac are not able to right now. Although Phil may be closer than I am.
 

eulipion2

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After reading danb35's post above (before you posted pbuelow) I downloaded the Mac 2.0.1 version, and it works for me, but I haven't really delved too deeply into recipe creation, so maybe something is broken, I just haven't found it yet.
 

pbuelow

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The 32bit version works fine, it's the 64bit version that's the problem.

And @Mattyp11, there won't be an iDevice or Android version anytime soon. There are some considerable difficulties in doing one, and there really isn't anyone contributing it either. I have some ideas that would make it easier, but don't have time right now to contribute them.
 

Starderup

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I am having trouble with the Misc database. When I try to add Yeast Nutrient, it adds Whirlfloc or something else, and then it creates a duplicate entry so I now have two Whirlfloc entries. It also duplicates Gypsum a lot, and I can't figure out how to add Yeast Nutrient. This is happening on two separate computers running Ubuntu 12.4.
 

mikfire

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Have version 2.0.1 and it wont calculate IBUs from mash hops. Anyone else have this issue?
Make sure you put your hop utilization at 100% on your equipment profile. I would have sworn I defaulted that to 100%, but apparently I didn't.

If that doesn't fix the problem, reply to this and I will look into it more.
 

mikfire

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I am having trouble with the Misc database. When I try to add Yeast Nutrient, it adds Whirlfloc or something else, and then it creates a duplicate entry so I now have two Whirlfloc entries. It also duplicates Gypsum a lot, and I can't figure out how to add Yeast Nutrient. This is happening on two separate computers running Ubuntu 12.4.
That is a known bug. The work around for the moment is to drag'n'drop from the Misc tree. I've checked the fix into the the code base (merge request 32) and it will be in the next version.

Mik
 

mikfire

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Still nothing for the iPad? Anyone?
I won't speak for the other developers, but I won't be working on one anytime soon. I'm sorry, and know this is something a lot of people would like to see.

I already have 7 vms (four linux distros, fbsd 32bit, fbsd 64bit and Windows 7) I use just for testing/trouble shooting. Adding one more system will be more than my brain can handle.

I don't own any Mac product, so I'm not even sure how I would go about testing.

I only have so many hours in a day, some of which are dedicated to annoying things like work, sleep, spending time with the wife, brewing, drinking, etc. I just don't have any more cycles left to spare.

If somebody else wants to volunteer to take on the effort, patches are always welcome.
 

neomantra

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I normally brew AG but picked up a free partial mash kit from AHS in a recent promotion. I can't figure out how to setup Brewtarget to do my water calculations correctly for this such that I don't have to do any topping off at the end of the boil. Any tips?
 

brkoerner

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Make sure you put your hop utilization at 100% on your equipment profile. I would have sworn I defaulted that to 100%, but apparently I didn't.

If that doesn't fix the problem, reply to this and I will look into it more.
all of my equipment profiles have hop utilization set to 100% and am still not getting any IBUs from mash hops

is there anything i have to do differently for mash hops?
 

uxo

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I have issues with recipes but I have found that deleting and starting new corrects the problems.

I had recipes that would not save my equipment settings or hop utilization so I just duplicated under a new name and fixed.
 

mikfire

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I have issues with recipes but I have found that deleting and starting new corrects the problems.

I had recipes that would not save my equipment settings or hop utilization so I just duplicated under a new name and fixed.
Were the recipes imported/converted recipes? How did you try to modify the equipment? Literally, which buttons did you click to modify the equipment?

When you assign an equipment profile to a recipe, we actually make a copy of that profile and assign that to the recipe. So it matters how you open the editor.

Mik
 

uxo

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Were the recipes imported/converted recipes? How did you try to modify the equipment? Literally, which buttons did you click to modify the equipment?

When you assign an equipment profile to a recipe, we actually make a copy of that profile and assign that to the recipe. So it matters how you open the editor.

Mik

I don't remember anymore. I will keep note of it and update if it happens again.
Thanks
 

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I'm getting a crash with 2.0.1 on win 7 when viewing recipes through the pane on the left. My usual process would be to double click on the recipe name, therefore expanding the tree of actual instances of that brew, then sometimes double clicking the instance. Usually this works without problems, but sometimes I'll get a hard crash with "the program has stopped responding" etc before the recipe has finished opening.

It's proving difficult to reproduce consistently. Sometimes I'm able to view 20 different recipes one after the other without problems, while sometimes the crash occurs when I first open a recipe after startup. Is there some kind of debug mode I can enable or log file produced so I can try and get a bit more info when it happens next? Cheers guys.
 

mikfire

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I'm getting a crash with 2.0.1 on win 7 when viewing recipes through the pane on the left. My usual process would be to double click on the recipe name, therefore expanding the tree of actual instances of that brew, then sometimes double clicking the instance. Usually this works without problems, but sometimes I'll get a hard crash with "the program has stopped responding" etc before the recipe has finished opening.

It's proving difficult to reproduce consistently. Sometimes I'm able to view 20 different recipes one after the other without problems, while sometimes the crash occurs when I first open a recipe after startup. Is there some kind of debug mode I can enable or log file produced so I can try and get a bit more info when it happens next? Cheers guys.
Oddly, there isn't. The vm image I used for doing my Windows testing has suddenly decided it isn't properly licensed any longer, and I haven't had time to put it all back together inside another vm.

Is it at all possible you could at least capture the text when it happens. It may provide a clue that I can use to track this down.

Mik
 

maltoftheearth

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Wanted to show some love for BrewTarget. I just removed Windows from a computer and loaded Ubuntu and, having BeerSmith, wanted to try some different brewing software.

Enter BrewTarget. I am really impressed. Easy to use, easy to make adjustments. The manual is really clear and a great help. Thank you!
 

mikfire

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all of my equipment profiles have hop utilization set to 100% and am still not getting any IBUs from mash hops

is there anything i have to do differently for mash hops?
According to http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021...Batype%3A+acs-toc%5D&searchHistoryKey=#citing, some amount of the XN makes it through from the mash hopping to the sweet wort and gets isomerized. I can only read the summary (paywalls), but it looks like there is a 30% increase of xanthohumol (XN) in the sweet wort, which gets isomerized into isoxanthohumol (IX or IXN in the literature) during the boil. Everything else I found suggests there is no significant increase in alpha acids or other compounds that make it through the lauter.

The Journal of the Insitute of Brewing is not behind a pay wall and I found a paper from 2008 discussing just what the effect of increased XN and IX is on the final product. The article can be found here http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2008.tb00335.x/abstract . The upshot is that increasing the amount of XN and IX in the finished product did not add anything to the IBU, measured analytically. It did, however, modify the perceived bitterness. There is a more pronounced difference in darker beers.

As it stands, I would claim that brewtarget is implementing the current research on the topic. If you can find and cite research to the contrary, I am happy to reconsider. To paraphrase Bones, I'm a programmer not a research scientist.

On the other hand, I like my users to be happy and empowered. I will add two new options that will allow you to adjust how much IBU a fwh or mash hop adds to the final IBU total, expressed as a percentage of that hop added at the top of the boil. So fwh (according to the literature) would have an adjustment of 110%.

Mik
 

brkoerner

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ok, It isn't a big issue. I just found a recipe for a Berliner Wiesse that called for mash hops and no boil. Other than that I really don't see using mash hops often. I will look into 2 articles you posted.

And I am happy and empowered with Brewtarget. I like the fact that if an ingredient isn't already in the software it can be easily added. and how easy it is to make and adjust recipes.

Another thing, what is likelihood being able to have folders for recipes?
 

mikfire

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ok, It isn't a big issue. I just found a recipe for a Berliner Wiesse that called for mash hops and no boil. Other than that I really don't see using mash hops often. I will look into 2 articles you posted.

And I am happy and empowered with Brewtarget. I like the fact that if an ingredient isn't already in the software it can be easily added. and how easy it is to make and adjust recipes.

Another thing, what is likelihood being able to have folders for recipes?
I'm working on it. It's going to take some work. I'm hoping for v2.1, but it maybe by v2.2.
 

brkoerner

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I'm working on it. It's going to take some work. I'm hoping for v2.1, but it maybe by v2.2.
Ok cool, can't wait. Thank you for all your work with brewtarget, I appreciate it. I have tried the trials of some other brewing software but I keep coming back to BT.

Just out of curiosity but what programming language is BT written in?
 

mikfire

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Ok cool, can't wait. Thank you for all your work with brewtarget, I appreciate it. I have tried the trials of some other brewing software but I keep coming back to BT.

Just out of curiosity but what programming language is BT written in?
C++ with a very heavy reliance on Qt.
 

MKBoitnott

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Hello, first off I am very impressed with BrewTarget. Thank you for taking the time to make this software free and readily available. I am using the Windows 2.0.1 version and it works splendidly.

One quick question... I am an extract brewer and I have been trying to use the Extract (half boil) equipment in the software. However, when I click on it, it adds .423 gal to my "Calculated pre-boil volume." For example if my "Kettle top off volume" is 3.5 gal, then BT calculates 3.923 gal. Why is it doing this?

Even weirder, is that when I first open BT, it defaults to the Extract Ideal equipment with the Blonde Ale Extract recipe. When it first comes up, the calculated volumes are accurate, but then if you switch equipment, and come back to Extract Ideal, then it starts to add the .423 gal. For clarification, I have not changed anything in the equipment settings.

I will attach pictures for clarification.

Picture 1: What it looks like when I first open it.
Picture 2: What it looks like if I switch to Extract (half-boil)
Picture 3: What it looks like when I switch back to Extract Ideal

View attachment Correct Gallons.bmp

View attachment Incorrect half.bmp

View attachment Incorrect ideal.bmp
 

mikfire

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Hello, first off I am very impressed with BrewTarget. Thank you for taking the time to make this software free and readily available. I am using the Windows 2.0.1 version and it works splendidly.

One quick question... I am an extract brewer and I have been trying to use the Extract (half boil) equipment in the software. However, when I click on it, it adds .423 gal to my "Calculated pre-boil volume." For example if my "Kettle top off volume" is 3.5 gal, then BT calculates 3.923 gal. Why is it doing this?
Glad you like the software. We work hard on it.

Thanks for the detailed question. Oddly, I think I have seen this question before and there is a reason for it. Not a good reason, mind you, but a reason. Let me dig through some archives to see if I can find the explanation. Failing that, I have a few more things I need to look at first and then I will try my best to figure out what's happening.

Mik
 
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