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gak27

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Rocketman,

I apologize if this has already been asked but I can't seem to find it:

What amount of boiling time is assumed for the "Late Addition" option for malt extract? I plan on using this option and want to make sure I have the right amount of hops on hand...

Thanks!
 
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rocketman768

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Rocketman,

I apologize if this has already been asked but I can't seem to find it:

What amount of boiling time is assumed for the "Late Addition" option for malt extract? I plan on using this option and want to make sure I have the right amount of hops on hand...

Thanks!
It assumes that the extract goes in at flameout, so 0 boil time.
 

jts15

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I read through the thread and didn't find an answer...I apologize if this has been asked before. I just downloaded the program and was playing around with the recipe that first pops up. I can't seem to figure out how to scale a recipe down. Say for example you have a 12 gallon recipe you want to scale down to 5 gallons. I tried the scale recipe in tools but that did not affect the grain amounts in the recipe. Or say you have a recipe for 70% efficiency and you want to scale the grain/hops for 80%. Can that be done?

Please excuse me being a newb. This is the first time i have tried brew software. Thanks.
 
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rocketman768

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I read through the thread and didn't find an answer...I apologize if this has been asked before. I just downloaded the program and was playing around with the recipe that first pops up. I can't seem to figure out how to scale a recipe down. Say for example you have a 12 gallon recipe you want to scale down to 5 gallons. I tried the scale recipe in tools but that did not affect the grain amounts in the recipe. Or say you have a recipe for 70% efficiency and you want to scale the grain/hops for 80%. Can that be done?

Please excuse me being a newb. This is the first time i have tried brew software. Thanks.
The scale recipe feature works fine for me. Just put in "5 gal" and hit enter.

As for scaling by efficiency, there isn't a direct way to do it right now. But, you can do the following: if you scale from 70 to 80 percent and the batch size was 5 gal, scale the recipe to 5 * 70/80 gallons, then change the efficiency to 80, then put the batch size back at 5 gal. This is probably more trouble than it's worth though, so I'll make sure and put this as a feature request.
 

Snowhere

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First of all, thanks rocketman for the program. I have been playing around with it and so far so good.

My question is, I am trying to do a recipe with Maris Otter grains and since it is not in the database, do you, or anyone else, have the particulars of this grain to add in the fermentables editor? I have tried searching the web for the information but I have not found any real info on it.

Thanks again for the program.
 
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rocketman768

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First of all, thanks rocketman for the program. I have been playing around with it and so far so good.

My question is, I am trying to do a recipe with Maris Otter grains and since it is not in the database, do you, or anyone else, have the particulars of this grain to add in the fermentables editor? I have tried searching the web for the information but I have not found any real info on it.

Thanks again for the program.
Is this what you're looking for: http://www.warminster-malt.co.uk/pdfs/Pale Malts & Adjuncts 2010 Q4.pdf

The extract potential is listed in points per kg/L. To get points per lb/gal, multiply by 0.121. To get yield as a percentage, multiply by (0.121/46). For the regular Maris Otter, it comes out to 36.3 point per lb/gal or 78.9% yield as-is.

As for the color columns, I'm not sure. I know they are listing EBC instead of Lovibond. However, I don't know what the "450g" and "515 mL" columns refer to. I'd just guess about 2.5 or 3 L.
 

jts15

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The scale recipe feature works fine for me. Just put in "5 gal" and hit enter.

As for scaling by efficiency, there isn't a direct way to do it right now. But, you can do the following: if you scale from 70 to 80 percent and the batch size was 5 gal, scale the recipe to 5 * 70/80 gallons, then change the efficiency to 80, then put the batch size back at 5 gal. This is probably more trouble than it's worth though, so I'll make sure and put this as a feature request.
Thanks Rocket. I went back in this morning and now the scale recipe is working for me as well. Not sure why it didn't work yesterday. So sorry to bother you.

Thank you for the reply and info on efficiency. I think that would be a useful feature if you were able to add it. Thanks for the tool.
 

brettwasbtd

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Is this what you're looking for: http://www.warminster-malt.co.uk/pdfs/Pale Malts & Adjuncts 2010 Q4.pdf

The extract potential is listed in points per kg/L. To get points per lb/gal, multiply by 0.121. To get yield as a percentage, multiply by (0.121/46). For the regular Maris Otter, it comes out to 36.3 point per lb/gal or 78.9% yield as-is.

As for the color columns, I'm not sure. I know they are listing EBC instead of Lovibond. However, I don't know what the "450g" and "515 mL" columns refer to. I'd just guess about 2.5 or 3 L.
BYO has some great info. They have a chart for grains and adjuncts. Here is the british grains section http://byo.com/resources/grains?gtype=3
 

Snowhere

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Thanks rocketman and brett. I had already put 3.5L in for color and had guessed at 75%, so not to far off from the 78.9%. But I am happier knowing for sure. I had assumed that I needed a moisture %, DP # and protein % number too. But after looking at other fermentables, I guess the other parameters are not needed.
 

Alemaker

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I can't believe I've not seen this before. I've been running trial Promash in a Windows VM. Just compiled this on my 64-bit LinuxMint desktop. Now I have no reason to start that VM. Thanks!!
 

JustinW

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When setting up the equipment, for the Mash Tun, should you use the volume of liquid that it can hold, or the volume of grain it can hold? I've got a false bottom and the two volumes are different.

Thanks,
Justin
 

culturejam

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I think it's supposed to be the total volume as rated by the manufacturer. Mine is 52 qts, for example.
 

JustinW

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That's what I thought...and that's what I have in there now, but I just got a new false bottom (http://www.homebrewing.org/Stainless-Steel-PICO-style-keg-kettle-false-bottom_p_1010.html) and it sits higher than I would like, so it got me thinking. I didn't know if Brewtarget does any calculations to ensure that the grain bill will fit in the MT, volume wise, or just the strike and sparge water volumes. 7.5 gal of liquid will still fit in my pony keg MT, but 7.5 gal worth of grain won't anymore. I guess if Brewtarget does do grain volume calculations then I should put 7 gal in the equipment parameters so it will check my recipes for too much grain volume.

Justin
 

culturejam

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I didn't know if Brewtarget does any calculations to ensure that the grain bill will fit in the MT, volume wise, or just the strike and sparge water volumes.
Yes, it does. It has visual graph of how full your mash tun is getting when you are designing the mash.

I'd suggest filling up the mash tun so that the water is level with the top of the false bottom and that's your "grain displacement" figure. That's not a scientific approach, but I think it might be good enough for beer. :)
 

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This one is a little beyond me. I have to manually add my phonon path to Makefile but I then get this

[[email protected] brewtarget-1.2.2]$ make
g++ -c -pipe -O2 -g -pipe -Wformat -Werror=format-security -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/lib/qt4/include -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtCore -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtGui -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtDBus -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtXml -w -D_REENTRANT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_WEBKIT_LIB -DQT_PHONON_LIB -DQT_XML_LIB -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/lib/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++ -I. -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtCore -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtGui -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtXml -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/phonon -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtWebKit -I/usr/lib/qt4/include -I. -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/phonon_compat -Isrc -Isrc -I/usr/include/phonon -o brewtarget.o src/brewtarget.cpp
src/brewtarget.cpp: In static member function ‘static QString Brewtarget::getDataDir()’:
src/brewtarget.cpp:139:40: error: cannot call constructor ‘QString::QString’ directly
src/brewtarget.cpp:139:40: error: for a function-style cast, remove the redundant ‘::QString’
src/brewtarget.cpp: In static member function ‘static QString Brewtarget::getDocDir()’:
src/brewtarget.cpp:163:39: error: cannot call constructor ‘QString::QString’ directly
src/brewtarget.cpp:163:39: error: for a function-style cast, remove the redundant ‘::QString’
make: *** [brewtarget.o] Error 1
 
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rocketman768

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This one is a little beyond me. I have to manually add my phonon path to Makefile but I then get this

[[email protected] brewtarget-1.2.2]$ make
g++ -c -pipe -O2 -g -pipe -Wformat -Werror=format-security -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/lib/qt4/include -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtCore -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtGui -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtDBus -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtXml -w -D_REENTRANT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_WEBKIT_LIB -DQT_PHONON_LIB -DQT_XML_LIB -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/lib/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++ -I. -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtCore -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtGui -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtXml -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/phonon -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/QtWebKit -I/usr/lib/qt4/include -I. -I/usr/lib/qt4/include/phonon_compat -Isrc -Isrc -I/usr/include/phonon -o brewtarget.o src/brewtarget.cpp
src/brewtarget.cpp: In static member function ‘static QString Brewtarget::getDataDir()’:
src/brewtarget.cpp:139:40: error: cannot call constructor ‘QString::QString’ directly
src/brewtarget.cpp:139:40: error: for a function-style cast, remove the redundant ‘::QString’
src/brewtarget.cpp: In static member function ‘static QString Brewtarget::getDocDir()’:
src/brewtarget.cpp:163:39: error: cannot call constructor ‘QString::QString’ directly
src/brewtarget.cpp:163:39: error: for a function-style cast, remove the redundant ‘::QString’
make: *** [brewtarget.o] Error 1
Which version of the source code is this? Did you download from the code repository itself, or was this from 1.2.2 or something?
 

mikfire

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brewtarget-1.2.2.tar.bz2

http://sourceforge.net/projects/brewtarget/files/brewtarget/1.2/1.2.2/

Wait a minute. I think I went to download this and noticed I already had it on my system. It could be an older version....... I'll download again...

Nah. Same size, same results....
If you have gcc version 4.5, you may need to add a "-fpermissive" to the CFLAGS. Other than that, could you tell me which distro you are using, what version of Qt and gcc? I can try a few things to hammer this out.

I know I have seen this problem, but I cannot remember how I fixed it. One thing you could try is to get the sources directly from SVN (svn co http://brewtarget.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brewtarget/trunk brewtarget) and build from that.

Mik
 

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# Generated by qmake (2.01a) (Qt 4.6.2) on: Fri Jan 7 19:04:15 2011
gcc 4.5.1
Mandriva

I tried adding "-fpermissive" to the CFLAGS in the make file but when I run make it seems to be ignored from there.

My system has never found Phonon for some reason. I have always added it to the make file but the subversion won't even pretend to run because it doesn't find it. Too late for this stuff tonight though. ;)
 

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My system has never found Phonon for some reason. I have always added it to the make file but the subversion won't even pretend to run because it doesn't find it. Too late for this stuff tonight though. ;)
Maybe run ldconfig?
 

mikfire

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Maybe run ldconfig?
Some distros like putting the phonon headers in odd places.

This is definitely something new in gcc 4.5. I switched my gcc from 4.4 to 4.5 and I got the exact same problem.

I have checked the fix in. If you can get svn working, grab revision 322 or later

If your svn isn't working and you don't mind editing the sources, you can do this:
1. open src/brewtarget.cpp
2. at line 162, change the 'QString::QString(CONFIGDATADIR)' to just 'QString(CONFIGDATADIR)'
3. at line 186, change the 'QString::QString(CONFIGDOCDIR) to just 'QString(CONFIGDOCDIR)'.
4. Save and quit
5. Recompile.

Mik
 

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Maybe run ldconfig?
/usr/include/phonon/mediaobject.h
That doesn't seem like too unusual a place. I had run ldconfig without any parameters, but it was late when I started playing with this.

Some distros like putting the phonon headers in odd places.

This is definitely something new in gcc 4.5. I switched my gcc from 4.4 to 4.5 and I got the exact same problem.

I have checked the fix in. If you can get svn working, grab revision 322 or later

If your svn isn't working and you don't mind editing the sources, you can do this:
1. open src/brewtarget.cpp
2. at line 162, change the 'QString::QString(CONFIGDATADIR)' to just 'QString(CONFIGDATADIR)'
3. at line 186, change the 'QString::QString(CONFIGDOCDIR) to just 'QString(CONFIGDOCDIR)'.
4. Save and quit
5. Recompile.

Mik
Changed the source and that worked.
Thanks.
 

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Question on the IBU/GU widget. Is this pre or post fermentation. It seems to me that no one ever seems to talk about IBUs vs Residual Sugar. Pre is important for determining extraction rate during boil but post is going to be the flavor profile. How many IBU's do you have to balance the Residual Sugars in the beer. This will change with attenuation rate.
 

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I get this when I start up.
WARNING: Could not find the use_plato tag in the option file.

Also, BT seems to shoot my load average up well past what I would expect as it sits there.
top - 22:41:25 up 1 day, 20:13, 6 users, load average: 1.54, 1.06, 0.73
vs
top - 22:46:53 up 1 day, 20:19, 6 users, load average: 0.02, 0.40, 0.53


PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
18114 hermit 20 0 1683m 70m 28m R 41 0.9 0:16.83 brewtarget
 
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rocketman768

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Question on the IBU/GU widget. Is this pre or post fermentation. It seems to me that no one ever seems to talk about IBUs vs Residual Sugar. Pre is important for determining extraction rate during boil but post is going to be the flavor profile. How many IBU's do you have to balance the Residual Sugars in the beer. This will change with attenuation rate.
The widget is pre-fermentation. This is the way Ray Daniels does it, and like you, I've never heard anyone talk about FG/IBU ratios, so I figured nobody would utilize such a number. If people want this, then I can add it.

I get this when I start up.
WARNING: Could not find the use_plato tag in the option file.
Don't worry. It's not an issue.

Also, BT seems to shoot my load average up well past what I would expect as it sits there.
Yeah. People keep asking about this bug, and it is fixed in the next release. However, I'm surprised that it shoots anyone's load :D
 

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The widget is pre-fermentation. This is the way Ray Daniels does it, and like you, I've never heard anyone talk about FG/IBU ratios, so I figured nobody would utilize such a number. If people want this, then I can add it.
Just deleted a detailed post that was more or less me thinking aloud and realizing that the % difference might be pretty small since it takes about 5 IBU for people to notice a change. I'll need to take a couple of examples of residual sugars at varying attenuation rates and see how it works out I guess. Mash temp vs attenuation still seems to be a black art since it doesn't seem to be modeled anywhere. I've seen at least one post asking about it with no good answers.

Don't worry. It's not an issue.



Yeah. People keep asking about this bug, and it is fixed in the next release.
Wasn't sure if the two were related, thats why I threw in the first.
 

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Is brewmaster setup to know that you are doing a "kit" brew or does it automatically assume all grain with a mash? I have input a few recipes that I have found and the SRM and OG never match.
 
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rocketman768

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Is brewmaster setup to know that you are doing a "kit" brew or does it automatically assume all grain with a mash? I have input a few recipes that I have found and the SRM and OG never match.
You need to set up an equipment especially for extract batches. The relevant parameters are "kettle top-up water" and "final top-up water." The kettle top-up is how much water you are putting in the boil. If you are doing a half-boil, this is something like 3 gallons, otherwise, like 5.5 gallons. The final top-up is how much you are adding before you put it in the fermenter. Other than that, there's nothing you need to do differently. I'll make sure to document this and make it easier in the next version.

If you are still having trouble with your color or gravity, you can PM me or continue the convo here.
 

jvcjbl

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You need to set up an equipment especially for extract batches. The relevant parameters are "kettle top-up water" and "final top-up water." The kettle top-up is how much water you are putting in the boil. If you are doing a half-boil, this is something like 3 gallons, otherwise, like 5.5 gallons. The final top-up is how much you are adding before you put it in the fermenter. Other than that, there's nothing you need to do differently. I'll make sure to document this and make it easier in the next version.

If you are still having trouble with your color or gravity, you can PM me or continue the convo here.
Since I am basically just starting out I am doing a mix of kits and recipes from here. Some call for partial boils... others call for full boils and some call for adding water to the fermenter. I can list you my equipment and you tell me what I should do or maybe you can guide me without. Let me know... Thanks in advance!
 

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I wanted to play with a couple of recipes and stumbled across brewtarget today. I'll definitely start using this software regularly. It installed fine on my gentoo x64 system, once I edited the makefile to add gentoo's shared phonon libs dir. The hop bittering calculation(s) seem a small bit off from tastybrew's. However, all else seems spot on.
 
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rocketman768

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Since I am basically just starting out I am doing a mix of kits and recipes from here. Some call for partial boils... others call for full boils and some call for adding water to the fermenter. I can list you my equipment and you tell me what I should do or maybe you can guide me without. Let me know... Thanks in advance!
Yeah, feel free to post the equipment and recipe.

I wanted to play with a couple of recipes and stumbled across brewtarget today. I'll definitely start using this software regularly. It installed fine on my gentoo x64 system, once I edited the makefile to add gentoo's shared phonon libs dir. The hop bittering calculation(s) seem a small bit off from tastybrew's. However, all else seems spot on.
I don't know why, but phonon seems to be treated differently in different distributions, and cmake cannot seem to find it sometimes :/ Glad you figured it out.
 

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Your equipment should look something like these


Awesome!!! Given the pics... do I still need to input something to the "final top-up water" even if I don't EVER add to my fermenter? I always add my water prior to boil so I can boil the full 5 gallons even if this isn't in the recipe. Also, why the 6 gallons in the "mush tun" area?
 
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rocketman768

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Awesome!!! Given the pics... do I still need to input something to the "final top-up water" even if I don't EVER add to my fermenter? I always add my water prior to boil so I can boil the full 5 gallons even if this isn't in the recipe. Also, why the 6 gallons in the "mush tun" area?
Whatever quantity is in the "final top-up" water is how much you add after you're done boiling, or that you'll only boil for like 5 minutes, whether you add it in the fermenter or to the kettle. If you're doing just full boils, use the full boil equipment above. Also, be careful if the recipe calls for a half boil and you change it to do a full boil: you need to make sure the boil gravity is the same as the half-boil so that the IBUs are the same. The reason is that the boil gravity affects how much alpha acid is extracted from the hops.

No specific reason for the 6 gal in the mash tun.
 

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Whatever quantity is in the "final top-up" water is how much you add after you're done boiling, or that you'll only boil for like 5 minutes, whether you add it in the fermenter or to the kettle. If you're doing just full boils, use the full boil equipment above. Also, be careful if the recipe calls for a half boil and you change it to do a full boil: you need to make sure the boil gravity is the same as the half-boil so that the IBUs are the same. The reason is that the boil gravity affects how much alpha acid is extracted from the hops.

No specific reason for the 6 gal in the mash tun.
Why does brewday mode always start of saying "you should have 0.000 tsp of wort". ?

Also, just so I can better follow with a partial boil.. take a look at this recipe given my 7.5 gallon kettle... how would you configure the equipment with what it says?

PROCEDURE:
Note: If you are using Wyeast liquid yeast, prepare the yeast 24 hours prior to brewing! Activate the yeast by “smacking” it to rupture the internal pouch, thereby mixing its contents with the other contents in the pouch. Allow the yeast to remain at room temperature to swell. Check the packaging date on the pouch. If it has been over two months since it was packaged, allow an extra day for the pouch to swell up. If you are using White Labs Pitchable Yeast, simply remove from refrigerator and allow to warm up to room temperature during the brew session.

1. In a small saucepan, bring a gallon of water to 160° - 170° and turn off the heat. Add the bag of grains and water salts (if used) and steep 30 minutes. Now, gently sparge (rinse) the grains with hot tap water (ideal temperature 168°) and bring the total volume up to two or more gallons in a stainless steel or enameled kettle (avoid aluminum). As a rule, boiling as much of the full five gallons as possible is best. Bring to boil and resume step #2.

2. Turn off heat and add malt extract. Return to boil, taking care not to allow wort to overflow onto your stove top. Start timing now, continuing the boil for 5 minutes. Add the bittering hops (1 oz. Warrior) and boil 45 minutes. Now add the flavoring hops (1 oz. Simcoe) and boil 10 minutes. For aroma, add the finishing hops (1/2 oz. Cascades) and immediately turn off heat.

3. To facilitate cooling, we suggest placing your brewing kettle in the sink with 5 or 6 inches of cold water (A tray or two of ice cubes in the cooling bath wouldn't hurt). Allow to stand for 20 - 30 minutes in the cooling bath.

4. For best results, we recommend using Wyeast or White Labs liquid yeast. If you are using dried yeast, we suggest you first rehydrate it while the wort is cooling. To do this, sprinkle the yeast into a cup of lukewarm (90° - 100°F) water and cover with saran wrap or tin foil. Let stand for 10 - 20 minutes.

5. Pour the cooled wort into the fermenter. Bring the total volume up to five gallons. Check and record the temperature and specific gravity at this time. Make the necessary gravity corrections for temperatures above 60° (Add.001 for every 7° above 60°F).

6. If the temperature is less than 80°, pour the yeast "slurry" and the packet of Bru-Vigor (if using tap water) into the wort and place the lid and airlock over the fermenter. Although ideal fermentation temperatures are lower,it is very important to get the fermentation started as soon as possible to avoid contamination of the beer. In any case, be aware that temperatures over 110° will most likely kill your beer yeast.

7. For best results, ferment at 60° - 75°F.
 
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rocketman768

rocketman768

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Why does brewday mode always start of saying "you should have 0.000 tsp of wort". ?
Because when you do all grain, you will obtain wort from the mash. Otherwise, you are just starting with an empty kettle.

Also, just so I can better follow with a partial boil.. take a look at this recipe given my 7.5 gallon kettle... how would you configure the equipment with what it says?
This is the full-boil equipment posted above (note I just posted a revised pic), since the instructions are "boiling as much of the full five gallons as possible is best." Just be aware that the bigger the boil, the lower the boil gravity, and the more bitter it will be.

...and bring the total volume up to two or more gallons in a stainless steel or enameled kettle (avoid aluminum)
Just so you know, this is nonsense. Aluminum works just as fine as stainless without off-flavors. (to others reading, lets not do a stainless/aluminum debate here...there are other threads)
 

jvcjbl

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Because when you do all grain, you will obtain wort from the mash. Otherwise, you are just starting with an empty kettle.



This is the full-boil equipment posted above (note I just posted a revised pic), since the instructions are "boiling as much of the full five gallons as possible is best." Just be aware that the bigger the boil, the lower the boil gravity, and the more bitter it will be.



Just so you know, this is nonsense. Aluminum works just as fine as stainless without off-flavors. (to others reading, lets not do a stainless/aluminum debate here...there are other threads)
Thanks for all the responses and time. I tend to over think things and then kick myself in the @$$ when I realize it is no where near that hard. To calculate boil off amount does this has to be done with wort or can it be just "water"? I rough guessed what my boil off rate was, and input everything from the recipe I posted and the OG was high by .005 and the FG was high by .002... ideas?
 
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