Brewtan B for LODO brewig

[okiedog]

What is the best way to use Brewtan B in LODO brewing? Also, where can I buy it?

 

[enkamania]

Currently it's available in Australia at https://www.ibrew.com.au/. Rumor mill says it's coming to the states this summer. I use 1/2 tsp in the mash and 1/2 tsp with 15 minutes in the boil

 

[okiedog]

Thanks eukamania, but I thought it was a Wyeast product.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

The manufacturers data stated to use it in a warm slurry. Also, I'd use a scale to get consistent additions.

2-4 g/hL in mash
2-5 g/hL in boil

Use before any finings.

My typical time frame looks like this:

16 Minutes - Brewtan B
15 Minutes - Irish Moss
10 Minutes - Wyeast Yeast Nutrient

I put them all in separate warm slurries.

 

[mongoose33]

Thanks eukamania, but I thought it was a Wyeast product.

According to the website it's product of Belgium:

https://www.ibrew.com.au/products/brewtan-b

The manufacturers data stated to use it in a warm slurry. Also, I'd use a scale to get consistent additions.

2-4 g/hL in mash
2-5 g/hL in boil

Use before any finings.

My typical time frame looks like this:

16 Minutes - Brewtan B
15 Minutes - Irish Moss
10 Minutes - Wyeast Yeast Nutrient

I put them all in separate warm slurries.

That's a tiny addition on the homebrewing scale. 2-4g/hL in the mash...let's see....a hectoliter is 100 liters. I might use 15-16 liters in the mash, so 100/16 is...6.25.

2gr divided by 6.25 is .32 grams for the mash. I have a scale that will measure that, but it's a remarkably small amount.

I originally thought it pretty expensive at $10au for 50 grams, but I guess not.

 

[okiedog]

I guess I'm going to have to buy that 1/10 gram scale I've been considering. So now, let me ask those of you who use it, how do you like the results? Have you noticed a definite improvement in your beer?

 

[jmark]

From another thread on Brewtan-B, the suggested dosing for a typical 5 gallon homebrew batch is 1/4 TSP in the mash and 1/2 TSP in the boil (making a slurry). I've used it on a couple of batches and to be honest, didn't see much difference using it - YMMV. I bought it from that Aussie store mentioned above and with the exchange rate, it wasn't that expensive an experiment.

 

[okiedog]

From another thread on Brewtan-B, the suggested dosing for a typical 5 gallon homebrew batch is 1/4 TSP in the mash and 1/2 TSP in the boil (making a slurry). I've used it on a couple of batches and to be honest, didn't see much difference using it - YMMV. I bought it from that Aussie store mentioned above and with the exchange rate, it wasn't that expensive an experiment.

jmark, was your beer clear, or did it clear sooner or better than beers you brewed without Brewtan B?

 

[dcuccia]

FWIW Half Empty Brewing just posted this experiment result: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuHDz0kcA_E[/ame]

 

[schematix]

I bought some BTB from the link above a few months ago (exchange rate was very favorable!). I've used BTB twice now in low oxygen beers. Both had additions in the mash and the boil, both with the same interesting result.

For years now i've been used to producing clear wort into the kettle, thanks to RIMS, and also clear wort going into the ferm, thanks to pH control and rapid chilling.

Both BTB beers resulted in brilliantly clear wort going to the kettle. However, both of the beers hazed up to levels that would make a hefe blush as soon as the BTB went into the kettle. The wort went to pure sludge color.

Beer 1 - PDF Helles v2
Dosed the mash at 4g/hL of final beer. Dosed the kettle at 4g/hL of final beer. This equates to about .15g/gallon.
The resulting beer has an assertive honey flavor. After 3 pulls from the keg its sparkling crystal clear.

Beer 2 - Low oxygen pale ale
Dosed the mash at 4g/hL of final beer. Dosed the kettle at 1.5g/hL of final beer.

I just kegged it tonight at T:+8 days, and i'm hoping it has the same clearing behavior. it looks like sludge now, but the aroma and flavor is off the charts.

 

[jmark]

jmark, was your beer clear, or did it clear sooner or better than beers you brewed without Brewtan B?

To be honest I didn't see much difference than fining with gelatin. There WAS a huge amount of break material though when I chilled so I'm guessing it helped to some degree removing protein. I'll have to do some side-by-sides using the same recipes to really tell. I suspect there's something there in using it, but it wasn't a 'night and day' experience for me.

 

[okiedog]

Thanks. I guess I'm not ready to try it yet, but I may try it when it becomes more available.

 

[MaxStout]

Thought I'd necro this thread to mention that William's Brewing now sells it for $5.99/oz. I'm curious to try it. For those who have used it, does it add any noticeable astringency, given its tannin content?

 

[schematix]

Nope. Just use it at recommended levels and shy away from boil additions. Seems that hoppy beers with it in the boil can result in permanent haze.

 

[mongoose33]

Thought I'd necro this thread to mention that William's Brewing now sells it for $5.99/oz. I'm curious to try it. For those who have used it, does it add any noticeable astringency, given its tannin content?

I've used it a few times...no astringency attributed to it. As far as content, I think it's tannic acid, not tannins that are in it.

I have a longer-term experiment going with this--made two batches of an APA, one with BtB, the other without. I did some triangle testing on it, I did not have a significant number of tasters who were able to tell the difference (and I had every one of them tasting this as their first beer of the night, so palate fatigue should not have been an issue).

This was on November 1st. So up front, there was not a discernable difference among them, statistically-speaking.

I bottled some of both batches, expecting to re-do the testing in either early January or February, and see if there's a longer-term benefit to it.

[BTW, in a sop to those who believe in blind tasting, including me , I was certain I could tell a difference between the beers. I would have bet you $100 I could. Then I had someone serve me a blind triangle test--and I failed it! So much for my being able to tell a difference.]

************

Both Morrey and I have used it with a dark lager recipe; in both cases we felt the BtB made the malt flavors pop, made them more pronounced--and this was the initial reaction both drinking the brewed wort, and after carbonation. It's a working hypothesis for now. Supposed to, also, preserve hoppy flavor and aroma. That's what the ongoing experiment will examine.

 

[passedpawn]

I recently used it in an octoberfest. I didn't brew a control, so I can't really tell you what difference it made. I added to the mash.

 

[MaxStout]

I've used it a few times...no astringency attributed to it. As far as content, I think it's tannic acid, not tannins that are in it.

I have a longer-term experiment going with this--made two batches of an APA, one with BtB, the other without. I did some triangle testing on it, I did not have a significant number of tasters who were able to tell the difference (and I had every one of them tasting this as their first beer of the night, so palate fatigue should not have been an issue).

This was on November 1st. So up front, there was not a discernable difference among them, statistically-speaking.

I bottled some of both batches, expecting to re-do the testing in either early January or February, and see if there's a longer-term benefit to it.

[BTW, in a sop to those who believe in blind tasting, including me , I was certain I could tell a difference between the beers. I would have bet you $100 I could. Then I had someone serve me a blind triangle test--and I failed it! So much for my being able to tell a difference.]

************

Both Morrey and I have used it with a dark lager recipe; in both cases we felt the BtB made the malt flavors pop, made them more pronounced--and this was the initial reaction both drinking the brewed wort, and after carbonation. It's a working hypothesis for now. Supposed to, also, preserve hoppy flavor and aroma. That's what the ongoing experiment will examine.

Thanks, Mongoose, for the response, and for your experimentation. That information is helpful. I'm glad the BtB is fairly neutral. I don't expect BtB in itself to be an answer, but something I can incorporate in my quest to make better beer. I am interested in LODO, though I will likely not go full-tilt. I do BIAB over propane, I bottle. I have a copper IC. I have no interest in switching to kegging. Therefore, not all of the LODO process elements will fit into my process. However, I would like to incorporate whatever I reasonably can to mitigate O2 exposure. Crushing grain straight into the bag right before mashing, doughing in more carefully, covering the mash, being more careful with stirring, running a more gentle boil, pitching before oxygenating, adding priming sugar to the primary a few hours before bottling, and so on. These are all obvious things I could be doing.

I don't go through a batch of beer very fast, as I'm the only one in our household who drinks it. A batch of homebrew sometimes lasts a few months in my fridge. That makes it all the more important for me to reduce oxidation and extend shelf life.

 

[MaxStout]

Nope. Just use it at recommended levels and shy away from boil additions. Seems that hoppy beers with it in the boil can result in permanent haze.

Do you find it to be more effective if used only in the mash? I'm not worried about hazy beer, but wondering if using it also in the boil increases its effectiveness.

 

[mongoose33]

Do you find it to be more effective if used only in the mash? I'm not worried about hazy beer, but wondering if using it also in the boil increases its effectiveness.

The way I did it was to add 1 gram to the strike water, and 1.33 grams to the boil. I'm not saying anything about whether that's better or worse, I'm only noting what I did. This is an ongoing investigation, to say the least.

 

[okiedog]

Now that Williams Brewing carries Brewtan (as Mongoose pointed out), I may try it. Currently though, I'm trying to finish putting a roof on my house. Obviously, my brewing has taken a back seat to that.

 

[aeviaanah]

Now that Williams Brewing carries Brewtan (as Mongoose pointed out), I may try it. Currently though, I'm trying to finish putting a roof on my house. Obviously, my brewing has taken a back seat to that.

Just brew outdoors.

 

[okiedog]

Good idea, but that's kinda hard to do from the roof.

 

[aeviaanah]

Lol, good luck with the roof

 

[okiedog]

Thanks, aeviaanah. We're making good progress now. I'd post some pics, but it's off topic. Anyway, I still have a hefe to keg, but then there's nothing else in the pipeline. I'll have to find time to brew something, anything, this week.

 

[Morrey]

As previously shared with Mongoose33....my BtB partner in crime:

I am taking small steps to be LODO compliant, but like MaxStout, I am going to limit my efforts to LODO modifications that can work somewhat within my current process. As I discussed with Mongoose33, I'd rather risk the issues with copper than get rid of my JaDed Hydra IC.

Wife and I are very fond of a Hoppy Wheat w/Lemongrass beer I semi-crafted using Sweetwater's Grass Monkey as a model. I brew a 5G batch every 5 weeks since SWMBO heads to that tap (all beers are kegged) on a regular basis.

Have used BtB for several successive batches. Not a control per se, but sustained hop vibrancy compares a 10 week old kegged beer against a just ready 5 week old version also with BtB.

Normally I'd be the first to admit this beer loses some of its hop vibrancy over the 10 week run. I am not able to tell any difference in the hop vibrancy at this point between the week 10 beer and week 5 version. Only comment was the 10 week version was slightly more rounded but not in a hop sort of way. Maybe more in a malt sort of way...but the hops stood tall in both versions.

Next is to bottle from keg two samples of 10 week Grass Monkey before keg kicks. 5 more weeks down the road - I'll compare a (then) 15 week Grass Monkey to a newly aged 5 week beer, then again in 5 more weeks - it will be a 20 week Grass Monkey against a new 5 week beer.

So far so good for BtB retaining hop vitality.

 

[SanPancho]

not used for the purposes of clarification. as noted above, it aids in prolonging shelf life and flavor stability. definitely see some improvement in darker beers that dont move as fast. malts do seem to be enhanced.

dont have a whole lot of experience on hop persistence yet as those beers dont stick around that long, especially at small 1-2-3 gallon sizes for recipe experiments. there is one beer that i noticed had good hop flavor for quite a long time but i mixed up the notes and cant remember if it was used. i think it was. but not sure.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Hope I have some of the same results. Got mine from Williams last week.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Nope. Just use it at recommended levels and shy away from boil additions. Seems that hoppy beers with it in the boil can result in permanent haze.

Here is my first beer (English IPA) using BtB. I used the recommended dose - 1/4 tsp in mash and 1/2 tsp in boil (except I forgot to make a slurry and just added the powder).

Hops were:

1oz Challenger @ 60
1oz Challenger @ 15
1oz EKG @ 5
1oz EKG @ whirlpool
2oz EKG @ dry hop

I just kegged a Pils (made a boil slurry) and will see how that looks in a few weeks.

 

[Morrey]

I know that everyone's taste is different. My personal tastes favor hop forward vs malt forward. In a hoppy beer accentuated with SO4 and lowered Cl, I can usually downplay malt forward, however I seem to be fighting BtB which seems to make malts "pop".

Even in a Grolsh styled Lager beer I just brewed with 30 IBU, BtB is making the malts come forward more than suits my personal preference. The plus side is that when the flavors are established, they seem to remain stable for the life of the 5G soda keg.

I am reluctant to discontinue BtB as I believe this addition is a key player in LODO brewing. My biggest hope is I can adjust my brewing salts to style the beer I prefer to the tastes I look for. I'll continue to adjust the Cl:SO4 balance knowing it will look odd (for style) to others. I also plan to adjust my hops 10-15% over norm as well.

 

[MSK_Chess]

http://********************/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Officiele_tekst_voor_Brewing_Science.pdf

also

https://www.natural-specialities.com/brewery.html

 

[Morrey]

http://********************/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Officiele_tekst_voor_Brewing_Science.pdf

also

https://www.natural-specialities.com/brewery.html

The BrewingScience article was published nearly 8 years ago in 2010. Surprised that gallotannins have taken that long to be noted as a viable brewing component.

 

[Die_Beerery]

The BrewingScience article was published nearly 8 years ago in 2010. Surprised that gallotannins have taken that long to be noted as a viable brewing component.

Not in professional circles, I was using BTB in 2011 (got it from wyeast along with tanal-a), only in homebrew circles. I think this is due to the whole professional brewing has no place in homebrewing mantra thing that was preached.