Quantcast

Brewing Wheat Beer with Intensive Banana Aroma MAY/JUNE 2010 Zymurgy

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

amishland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
397
Reaction score
1
Location
SE Michigan
Brewing Wheat Beer with Intensive Banana Aroma
MAY/JUNE 2010 Zymurgy
By Michael Eder
A master brewer educator at the Doemens Academy in Munich offers a specific mashing procedure for creating a wheat beer with a signature banana aroma.


Any one read this article yet? Or Use the technique. About making very strong bannana:ban::ban: flavor wheat beers.

It spoke of step mashing then separating the mash into two mashes one thick and one thin, raising the temp of the thick, then combining the two back for mash out and sparging.

I will edit this later with the actual technique in the article.

I would like to try this, but seems difficult as I batch sparge in an igloo cooler. Any one have some recommendations on step mashing for the folks who batch sparge?
 
OP
amishland

amishland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
397
Reaction score
1
Location
SE Michigan
mash low at 86F for 30 min (increasing maltose enzyme / glucose concentration)

then 25-30% of the mash is separated (thick mash)

thick mash heated to 144F and thin mash remains at 86F for 30 min

then mix back together which should amount to 104F
(most critical step w/ maltose active and producing glucose for next 30min)

skipping B-amylase rest mash should be heated to 162F to activate the a-amylase (30min)

check for iodine reaction and reheat to transfer temp of 172F

camera phone pic of figure 1
 

svraines

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
63
Reaction score
1
Location
Madison, WI
Mash in a little thicker than you usually do (less water per pound), so you can add boiling water to raise from 104 to 162 with boiling water.

To heat the 'thick' mash, scoop some out with a strainer or small pot and heat it to 144 on the kitchen stove.

Use a mash calculator to figure out water amounts that will work for your system.
 

mhot55

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
228
Reaction score
12
Location
Staten island
I read this too and am interested in trying it. However, i don't understand 1 thing. I get the mash schedule, but the article says to use a larger water:grain ratio than normal (5:1). By this, i figure if you're using 10 lbs of grain for a normal 5 gallon batch- that would be 50 quarts of water- which is over 11 gallons of mash water........How the hell does this translate into a 5 gallon batch. Also, what about sparging? how can you after using 11+ gallons. This would also translate into a 4 hour boil just to get it down to 5 gallons.

Any help? Am i missing something?
 

remilard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
3,654
Reaction score
53
Location
Kansas City
I read this too and am interested in trying it. However, i don't understand 1 thing. I get the mash schedule, but the article says to use a larger water:grain ratio than normal (5:1). By this, i figure if you're using 10 lbs of grain for a normal 5 gallon batch- that would be 50 quarts of water- which is over 11 gallons of mash water........How the hell does this translate into a 5 gallon batch. Also, what about sparging? how can you after using 11+ gallons. This would also translate into a 4 hour boil just to get it down to 5 gallons.

Any help? Am i missing something?
5:1 liters:kg
 

Brickhouse

Active Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
28
Reaction score
1
Location
Modesto
It may be referring to 5 lbs of water to 1 pound of grain or vice versa. Need to read the article carefully.
 

carnevoodoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
4,258
Reaction score
24
Location
San Diego, CA
It may be referring to 5 lbs of water to 1 pound of grain or vice versa. Need to read the article carefully.
It'd be qts/lb. That's the typical ratio that is set in recipes, if they're in US measurements.

Edit: But that article is all in Celsius. So probably liters/kg.
 

jbonaparte

New Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Location
Ottawa
So, i used this technique with the below recipie and was SHOCKED at the strong banana flavor and aroma. Amazing. I underpitched the package of Yeast. I used 1/2 the pack only and kept the primary at 85F for 1 week. Bottled with Corn Surgar. Shocked at how well it worked. It tastes very similar to Weihenestephaner Wheat. Medium Bodied, strong banana flavor with a lingering clove taste at the end. My best wheat yet. Oh and this is my first post!

Ingredients

German wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) 49.8 %
Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) 26.3 %
Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) 12.0 %
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) 4.8 %
Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 5 7.2 %
11.00 g Hersbrucker [3.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 9.7 IBUs
Weihenstephan Weizen Only 1/2 the pack added

I did this for the mash:
30 min at 30C
then removed 1/3 and added hot water to bring to 65c
SO, at this poiint..Two batches.. One at 30C and one at 65C: 30 min at this temp for both
Then mixed back together to get 40C for 30 min
Then increased to 70C skipping 60C: 20 min

Sparged with 85C water
 

Rev2010

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
3,251
Reaction score
636
Location
Brooklyn
1. Weihenstephan isn't really all that banana flavored IMO. Fresh Franziskaner has far more banana taste if you ask me. It's my favorite beer - meaning Franziskaner.

2. It's well known underpitching creates more banana esters.

3. It's also well known fermenting at a higher temp accentuates the banana ester production.

Somehow I wonder if the mash has anything to do with it being the yeast in known to create banana taste primarily.


Rev.
 

slarkin712

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
787
Reaction score
62
Location
St. Louis
Here's the full text of the article:

Brewing a Wheat Beer with Intensive Banana Aroma
Michael Eder


A European Perspective

Producing a German-style wheat beer may not be as difficult as brewers might think. The most important factors are ingredients and technical knowledge. A little bit of historical background might help, too.

Around 400 years ago during the regency of Lord Maximilian I in Bavaria, wheat beer or “weissbier” was only allowed to be brewed by aristocrats. This type of beer was therefore very desirable for common people. Until then, production and commerce of wheat beer was only done by the aristocratic family Degenberger, who originated from a small town called Bogen in lower Bavaria.

By heritage, the right to produce wheat beer, the so-called “weissbierregal,” was passed on to Maximilian I. He foresaw great financial success in producing wheat beer and founded ducal wheat beer brewhouses across the country. The first one was built in 1607 in Kehlheim, a small town on the Danube River. From that time on until the 18th century, wheat beer dominated the Bavarian beer market.

At the turn of the 18th century, tastes began to change and consumers gravitated toward dark or amber beers. Though production declined, the monopoly was still in effect: common people were still not allowed to brew wheat beers.

During the same time period, Georg Schneider, an ordinary citizen of Munich, was the leaseholder of the “royal wheat beer brew house” (1855-1873) in Munich. As bottom fermenting beers became more and more popular, the royal office wanted Schneider to stop the production of wheat beers in the Weisses Brauhaus in Munich and produce bottom fermenting beers instead. However, Schneider still believed in the potential of wheat beer production and negotiated successfully with the royal office (Regency of King Ludwig II) to be allowed to brew wheat beer. Simultaneously, he seized the opportunity to purchase the Maderbrau brewery in Munich. He then went on to found, together with his son Georg II, the famous brewery G. Schneider & Sohn in 1872. After the Munich brewery was destroyed by allied bombing in 1944, production moved to Kehlheim, where it is still located (Georg VI has been working in the brewery since 1982).

Since the sale of the “Weissbierregal” to Schneider, the consumption of wheat beer became popular again and still represents a stable market share today.

The wheat beers brewed in medieval time were different than those brewed today. The main reason was the low carbonation due to the lack of pressure-resistant vessels; additionally the raw materials were very different. However, the general character would have been similar to the wheat beers we drink today—a fruity beer, refreshing, easy to drink, and very tasty!

Crafting a Wheat Beer

The choice of raw materials is essential to a good wheat beer. A mix of barley malt, wheat malt (German brewers are forced by law to use at least 50 percent wheat malt for the beer to be labeled wheat beer and also achieve at least 11 percent original gravity) and caramel malt deliver the great malty body typical of this style. The hops should be carefully selected to avoid the presence of too much aroma or bitterness to the beer. Finally the yeast strain used must produce typical wheat beer flavors like clove (4-vinyl guaiacol) and banana (isoamyl acetate). In order to produce sufficient amount of isoamyl acetate ester and therefore increase the banana aroma in the beer, the following recipe is suggested.

The ideal malt ratio for a typical German/ Bavarian wheat beer would be 70 percent wheat malt, 27 percent Pilsner malt and 3 percent dark caramel malt to obtain the typical amber color. Any hops can be used as long as they are dosed carefully to keep the bitterness units below 14; this will allow the estery character of the beer to come through. Finally, an authentic German/Bavarian wheat beer yeast strain, such as Munich yeast available in the U.S. in dry form from Lallemand (this strain was selected at the Doemens Institute in Munich), should be used to maximize flavors. However, this is only realistic if the yeast has access to the right wort composition, which is dependent on the mashing regime.

At the beginning of the mashing process, the temperature should be kept low at 30° C (86° F) to increase the activity of the maltase enzyme in a decoction mash system and increase the glucose concentration (Figure 1). The greater the difference between the glucose and maltose in the wort, the more ethyl- and isoamyl acetate will be produced by the yeast. One part of the mash (25-30 percent) is then separated (thick mash) and heated to a temperature where the ß-amylase is active (62° C or 144° F), whereas the second part (thin mash) remains at 30º C, both for a 30-minute time period. After that time, they should be mixed back together to achieve a wort temperature of 40° C (104° F). This is the most critical step of the mashing process with the maltase being active and producing glucose for the next 30 minutes. Skipping the ß-amylase rest, the wort should be heated directly to a temperature of 72° C (162° F) to activate the a-amylase. After checking for a negative iodine reaction, the mash is reheated to the transfer temperature of 78° C (172° F).

Such a mashing recipe is based on the knowledge of enzymatic activity (Table 1) and yeast metabolism. By using a mash water-to-grist load ratio of 5:1 (by weight), a higher pH in the mash is achieved to optimize working conditions of the maltase. The lower mashing temperature of 40° C (104° F) allows for increased glucose production. Glucose level is around 8 g/l in a standard mash compared to 17 g/l with such a decoction mash system. As a result, yeast will demonstrate a so-called “diauxia phenomenon”: reduced maltose metabolism, reduced cell growth, and acetyl CoA will be transferred to higher alcohols coming from amino acid metabolism, resulting in an increased ester production compared to a standard fermentation, similar to the process of high gravity brewing.

The pitching rate is 15 million cells per milliliter, with the temperature held between 18-26° C (62-78° F). The higher the temperature, the more esters will be produced.

This specific mashing procedure was designed and developed by Dr. Bertram Sacher of the Doemens Institute to increase ethyl- and isoamyl acetate from 1 mg/l to 3 mg/l and produce wheat beers with intensive banana notes. This method has been successfully tested many times in commercial breweries in Germany.




There is the decoction chart in a previous post and a table on enzyme activity, but it's not important.
 

tre9er

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
4,370
Reaction score
247
Location
Lincoln
I get banana esters (purposely) by fermenting WL400 yeast in the mid 80's for 7-10 days. I've even had chico throw banana esters at higher temps, such as 70's.
 

brewski08

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
366
Reaction score
22
Location
the library
I get banana esters (purposely) by fermenting WL400 yeast in the mid 80's for 7-10 days. I've even had chico throw banana esters at higher temps, such as 70's.
fermenting in Florida, it's almost impossible NOT to get banana flavors in your beer without a fermentation chamber and temp control.

i am completely bewildered as to why people enjoy the taste of bananas in their beer. i put a lot of thought into the right ingredients, the proper grain bill, the best hop schedule, the optimal mash temperature, etc...and for it to all be masked by a banana...it drives me insane.


...in fact, whenever banana esters sneak up on me and ruin my beer, i think of this guy :ban: mocking me and my struggles to keep its taste out of my beer.

but to each their own i suppose.
 

tre9er

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
4,370
Reaction score
247
Location
Lincoln
The aforementioned beers were witbiers that I wanted a fruitiness to the flavor profile. I mostly make them for my wife and her friends, and the occasional summer quaff.

The PA's I make accidentally had banana due to pitching high and a few hot days without ferm temp control.
 

progmac

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
1,878
Reaction score
281
Location
Cincy
i'm thinking about how i could achieve this with a partial mash. it would be hard because in this example 70% of the mash is at low temperatures. at most, i can mash 35% of my grain bill. i wonder the effect if i did my entire partial mash at low temperature for 30 minutes, then mashed and sparged normally and then added the extract. would that have a similar effect?
 
Top