Brewing software mash instructions

[DUCCCC]

I'm using Beer Alchemy on a MacBook, running OS X 10.4.

The mash instructions for a Northern Brown Ale from Jamil's book, Brewing Classic Styles, calls for a single infusion @ 152ºF for 60 minutes. The book says no mash out, and I can't recall right now if it specifies fly or batch sparge, but I intend to batch sparge.

So I'm getting everything input into my BA software, and I think I need a little help interpreting the directions for the mash.

Preparation:
If using a yeast starter prepare one a couple of days in advance.
If necessary crush the grains.
Heat 3.64 US gals of water to 168 degF.

Mashing:
Dough in the following fermentable ingredients.
9lb 12oz of UK Pale Ale Malt
12.0 oz of US Special Roast Malt
8.0 oz of US Victory Malt
8.0 oz of US Caramel 40L Malt
4.0 oz of UK Pale Chocolate Malt

Mash pH should be 5.3.

Allow the temperature to stabilize at 153 degF. Allow to rest at this temperature for 60
minutes.

Add 1.27 US gals of water at 153 degF, mix and run off.

Add a further 3.50 US gals of water at 153 degF and mix.

Run off to collect a total of 7.00 US gals of wort.

I assume my strike temp is 168ºF, and based on a water to grist ratio of 1.25 qts to the pound, I'll be using the 3.64 gals for the initial infusion, letting it rest in the MLT for 60 minutes, then add another 1.27 gals @ 153ºF before draining the MLT(?). Then I add 3.5 gals @ 153ºF, stir and drain again to the 7 gallon mark.

Does this sound like a proper mash? I know that "no mash out" means I don't raise the temp to 170ºF to stop the conversion, but is the 3.5 gallons called for above after the initial run off @ 153ºF right? I wasn't sure if my sparge should be any higher at all.

Just trying to get my process for my first AG straight before I actually try it,
Matt

 

[Got Trub?]

It sounds right. Your grain will already be at about 153 so no need to add hotter water then 153 if you are not mashing out.

GT

 

[Sea]

Looks good till the end Sparge section.

If you aren't going to mash out, don't add any more water at 153.

Heat your total sparge water up to about 180, and after vorlaufing and draining the fluid from the mash, add half the sparge water, mix well, let rest for 5 min or so, vorlauf, and drain. Then repeat with the second half of the sparge water, which has been sitting and is probably cooled to around 70 deg, which is where you want the grain bed during the entire sparge process.

good luck!

 

[DUCCCC]

Looks good till the end Sparge section.

If you aren't going to mash out, don't add any more water at 153.

Why not? (not getting "smart" here, I'm truly curious)

Heat your total sparge water up to about 180, and after vorlaufing and draining the fluid from the mash, add half the sparge water, mix well, let rest for 5 min or so, vorlauf, and drain. Then repeat with the second half of the sparge water, which has been sitting and is probably cooled to around 70 deg, which is where you want the grain bed during the entire sparge process.

good luck!

I got lost reading that.
After using 168ºF water for my initial infusion of 3.64 gallons, I should continue heating the rest of the water up to 180º and use that temp for the first sparge (isn't that getting close to tannin extraction temps), and then wait till the sparge water cools down to 70º for the second sparge?
Sounds like how I read to mash out. Something is not getting through my thick skull here... Would you mind breaking it down a little more for me?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[DUCCCC]

When I run the same recipe through for a single infusion with mash out (There's not a settting for 152º, just 151º) I get this for the mashing directions:

Heat 3.64 US gals of water to 166 degF.

Mashing
Dough in the following fermentable ingredients.

9lb 12oz of UK Pale Ale Malt
12.0 oz of US Special Roast Malt
8.0 oz of US Victory Malt
8.0 oz of US Caramel 40L Malt
4.0 oz of UK Pale Chocolate Malt
Mash pH should be 5.3.

Allow the temperature to stabilize at 151 degF. Allow to rest at this temperature for 60 minutes.

Raise the temperature to 171 degF over 10 minutes and mash out.

Add 1.27 US gals of water at 171 degF, mix and run off.

Add a further 3.50 US gals of water at 171 degF and mix.

Run off to collect a total of 7.00 US gals of wort.

Which sounds closer to what Sea said to do. Which would be better, the first one or the last? How does one raise the temp in a cooler MLT without an electric heat stick?

Matt

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm not familiar with the software so I hesitated to chime in.

I'm personally not a big fan of infusing anymore water into the mash after the rest and prior to first runnings. Some suggest to do this for two reasons. First would be to mash out and the second would be to get both runnings to about equal volume. I believe this actually hurts efficiency based on my testing.

I'd much rather drain all that high gravity wort right after the rest, regardless of the volume. From there, figure out how much more wort you'd like to start with in the boiler. Heat that much water up to 185ish and infuse half into the grain, stir, recirculate then drain. Infuse the next half at the same 180ish water and repeat the stir, recirc, drain. You should now have the wort volume you were looking for.

Just to summarize my process:

Infuse 1.25qts/lb of grain at about 168-170, stir well, rest 60 minutes.
Vorlauf then drain.
Infuse half batch sparge water at 182F, stir well, vorlauf, drain.
Infuse second half sparge water at 182F, stir well, vorlauf, drain.

Temps are approximate and vary a tiny bit depending on grain temp and amount.

 

[shafferpilot]

Yeah, you might as well raise the temp for sparging. It helps your efficiency, and after an hour with a thick, ph balanced mash, the conversion is done anyways, so it's not like you're gonna suddenly get complex sugars with a higher temp. Plus, wort at 150F is pretty thick compared to 170F. So the higher temp allows a little faster sparge. Even with your sparge water above 170, tannin extraction won't happen if you are sparging at a reasonably quick speed. However, I doubt the grain will get that hot if you follow the suggestions above, so that's really not a worry. Ya just don't want it to spend thirty minutes with the whole mash at 180F, that'll extract some nasty stuff.

 

[DUCCCC]

OK, Thanks for all the great info guys! That helps alot.

 

[CBBaron]

Your strike water should be 168F so that when you add room temp grain your mash temp is 151F. Leave this in the cooler for 60min.
To mash out in a cooler you have to add additional water at a higher temp to bring the total mash temp up to about 168F. You should keep the mash temp below 170F to prevent excess tannins from being extracted. With Beersmith I have to add an additional infusion step to mashout. I usually just adjust my volume of boiling water to get the desired temp instead of using a fixed volume at a lower temp.
If you have mashed out your sparge water should be about 168F. You still need to keep the mash below 170F but a warmer mash makes the sugars flow better improving extraction. If you don't mashout you can use hotter sparge water but 180F sounds too hot to me. You still want to keep the grain temps below 170F.
Craig

 

[DUCCCC]

Thanks Craig, that's a pretty good breakdown of what I was just reading in the Wiki here.

Many brewers believe that the purpose of this rest is to stop the enzymatic activity, but that is usually not the case as the alpha amylase is not fully deactivated until 176 *F (80 *C). The purpose of the mash-out is to aid lautering as hotter wort will flow more easily while still allowing enzymatic activity to convert any starches that might be unlocked during lautering [Narziss, 2005]. While this is of a lesser concern for the homebrewer, a mash-out is still a good practice.

I think there is some confusion on my part with the software I'm using because of differing brewing practices in the UK vs. the US. It also looks like I've got a bit more researching to do before I dive into AG. I'm not complaining though, as I'm having a blast learning this stuff. It's too bad they don't teach this stuff in high school chemistry...

Thanks again,
Matt