Brewing my 1st Dubbel

[GCGBrewing]

I've been doing some research on brewing a Dubbel, but seem to have found conflicting information. I see in some places brewers suggesting to keep the malt bill simple while this one Make Your Best Belgian Dubbel seems to want to throw in half a dozen malts, including 5lbs of Maris Otter.

Anyone have experience using MO in a Dubbel? Did it give you what you wanted or did you rebrew again without it?

Thanks in advance!

 

[balto charlie]

Never used MO in Dubbel.
Here is a great, albeit old discussion on Dubbel. It is the recipe I have used for the last 12-13 years. The OP, @SpanishCastleAle, had some great recipes. I am uncetain if he is still around but we used to chat a lot here. He also has a great Bock recipe that I have also used for a long time (just brewed it last week). Great recipe, great style of beer. Once my Bock is consumed I brew the Dubbel.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/dubbel-questions.101247/

 

[GCGBrewing]

Never used MO in Dubbel.
Here is a great, albeit old discussion on Dubbel. It is the recipe I have used for the last 12-13 years. The OP, @SpanishCastleAle, had some great recipes. I am uncetain if he is still around but we used to chat a lot here. He also has a great Bock recipe that I have also used for a long time (just brewed it last week). Great recipe, great style of beer. Once my Bock is consumed I brew the Dubbel.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/dubbel-questions.101247/

Thank you! I'll take a look at it.

 

[TheCache]

I just built a Dubbel from a couple of sources. Both recommended a Pilsen Malt for a base (Belgian preferably) so I'm going with a Dingemans. Have not tried Maris Otter.

 

[lumbergh]

https://www.morebeer.com/products/belgian-dubbel-grain-beer-brewing-kit-5-gallons.html
That's the only dubbel I've made. Not the most complex, but pretty good for a first shot.

 

[AlexKay]

Love MO in a Dubbel. My current recipe doesn’t use any Pilsner malt at all, just MO, Victory, wheat, crystal rye, and (a very little) pale chocolate. Plus rather a lot of D90. Came out very, very good. Waiting for competition results to see if judges agree.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've been doing some research on brewing a Dubbel, but seem to have found conflicting information. I see in some places brewers suggesting to keep the malt bill simple while this one Make Your Best Belgian Dubbel seems to want to throw in half a dozen malts, including 5lbs of Maris Otter.

Anyone have experience using MO in a Dubbel? Did it give you what you wanted or did you rebrew again without it?

Thanks in advance!

When I first started brewing, I used many of these Make Your Best... recipes. Each was very tasty, but I've since stopped using them in favor of more authentic recipes.

Weikert's an American specializing in beers that would do well in BJCP competition. He's not afraid to use German yeast in a Scotch ale or UK malt in a Belgian.

So, if you're interested in a tasty beer you might find at an American craft brewery, MYB might do the trick. If you're interested in brewing a dubbel as they are brewed in Belgium, another source would more likely serve.

 

[AlexKay]

Weikert's an American specializing in beers that would do well in BJCP competition. He's not afraid to use German yeast in a Scotch ale or UK malt in a Belgian.

This is fair criticism. What Weikert does, though, which was invaluable to me starting out, is tell you why he’s putting in each ingredient. Plus he writes entertainingly; for example, in his wee heavy recipe, “if you even look at that peat malt then we can’t be friends anymore.”

 

[MikeCo]

My favorite dubbel I have made is the Northern Brewer recipe which uses Belgian Pale as the base malt. The link below contains another link to the ingredients and instructions.
https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/belgian-dubbel-all-grain-kit

 

[SRJHops]

You've hit the nail on the head - there seem to be two approaches to brewing dubbels and quads. One uses a relatively simple grain bill and a ton of sugar (3 lbs for 5 gal batch). The other uses a more complex bill with less sugar (1-2 lbs). Both seem to do well in competition.

Did you happen to notice if the ones using MO are also the ones using 3 lbs of sugar? That would be my guess, because they need more malt (flavor) than they can get from pils.

I've only brewed 3 dubbels so far, and all have been close to Weikert's recipe. In fact, my tastiest version followed his recipe almost exactly. One time I deviated and left out the Special B and really missed it.

I have to say that I find a lot of "authentic" dubbels and quads from Belgian breweries a little boring. It seems few and far between that I find one that has a lot of complexity (I am looking at you, very tasty Rochefort 10 and Het Anker Gouden Carolus Cuvée Van De Keizer).

My advice is to try both approaches, starting with Weikert's. Also, be sure to give it a really healthy pitch.

Best wishes for a great brew!

 

[wetmk]

What Weikert does, though, which was invaluable to me starting out, is tell you why he’s putting in each ingredient.

This! Absolutely!

 

[GCGBrewing]

You've hit the nail on the head - there seem to be two approaches to brewing dubbels and quads. One uses a relatively simple grain bill and a ton of sugar (3 lbs for 5 gal batch). The other uses a more complex bill with less sugar (1-2 lbs). Both seem to do well in competition.

Did you happen to notice if the ones using MO are also the ones using 3 lbs of sugar? That would be my guess, because they need more malt (flavor) than they can get from pils.

I've only brewed 3 dubbels so far, and all have been close to Weikert's recipe. In fact, my tastiest version followed his recipe almost exactly. One time I deviated and left out the Special B and really missed it.

I have to say that I find a lot of "authentic" dubbels and quads from Belgian breweries a little boring. It seems few and far between that I find one that has a lot of complexity (I am looking at you, very tasty Rochefort 10 and Het Anker Gouden Carolus Cuvée Van De Keizer).

My advice is to try both approaches, starting with Weikert's. Also, be sure to give it a really healthy pitch.

Best wishes for a great brew!

The only I found with the Maris Otter was that one that I posted. I did come across a recipe that essentially the same, but the post was by the same guy. He only had 1lb of sugar in it though, the dark candi sugar.

I did end up buying 8lbs of Belgian Pils, though I originally thought I'd use that in 2 batches with 4lbs each. Instead, I think I'm going to cut down the MO to 4lbs, and use all 8lbs in the one batch. This is what I have currently for my recipe:

8# Belgian Pils
4# Maris Otter
.5# Special B
.5# Victory
1# Dark Candi Sugar
.5oz Magnum 60 min
.75 Hall. Mittelfrueh 20 min

Yeast is WLP 550.

 

[SRJHops]

The only I found with the Maris Otter was that one that I posted. I did come across a recipe that essentially the same, but the post was by the same guy. He only had 1lb of sugar in it though, the dark candi sugar.

I did end up buying 8lbs of Belgian Pils, though I originally thought I'd use that in 2 batches with 4lbs each. Instead, I think I'm going to cut down the MO to 4lbs, and use all 8lbs in the one batch. This is what I have currently for my recipe:

8# Belgian Pils
4# Maris Otter
.5# Special B
.5# Victory
1# Dark Candi Sugar
.5oz Magnum 60 min
.75 Hall. Mittelfrueh 20 min

Yeast is WLP 550.

Good call on the WLP 550. The Wyeast version is my go-to for most of my Belgians. As I mentioned, be sure to use a big pitch and it should turn out great. Also, pitch at the low temp range and let it free rise for a few days, then ramp up to the top of the range - and beyond if you dare. (See Brew Like a Monk.)

The grain bill looks great to me. Special B is key, IMO.

I'd personally adjust the hop addition timing so I could use the entire ounce, but if you've got it in those quantities go for it. I do recommend some Czech Saaz.

 

[GCGBrewing]

Good call on the WLP 550. The Wyeast version is my go-to for most of my Belgians. As I mentioned, be sure to use a big pitch and it should turn out great. Also, pitch at the low temp range and let it free rise for a few days, then ramp up to the top of the range - and beyond if you dare. (See Brew Like a Monk.)

The grain bill looks great to me. Special B is key, IMO.

I'd personally adjust the hop addition timing so I could use the entire ounce, but if you've got it in those quantities go for it. I do recommend some Czech Saaz.

Funny enough, I got to the brew store and realized I had spent all my time looking at the ingredients (grains) to add, but hadn't looked at the yeasts. I literally looked at one of those posters with all the yeasts on it at the brew store and just picked one from the brief descriptions. Absolutely on the big pitch. I'm hoping to get my starter going this evening on the stir plate.

I really like Special B, though I've only used it a few times. It was great in an Imperial Stout I made a while back.

For the hops, I just adjusted the Magnum for the IBU's to come out right. I buy all mine in bulk, so I just use what I need to get to the desired IBU levels. I'll keep the Saaz in mind. There is no rush to use the Magnum I have, and I still need to go to the brew store anyway.

 

[MikeCo]

I've used Imperial Triple Double yeast on a couple recent Belgian ales with great results.

 

[SRJHops]

I've used Imperial Triple Double yeast on a couple recent Belgian ales with great results.

I believe that's the Westmalle strain, right? There's an interesting Brulosophy that found that raising the fermentation temperature with that yeast did not seem to matter. exBEERiment | Fermentation Temperature: Imperial Yeast B48 Triple Double In A Trappist Single

It makes me want to try the experiment with the Ardennes (Achouffe) strain. I always raise my temps at least to the top of the yeast's range, but I have no control sample to know if it really matters. I've also never raised them WAY over, like up into the mid 80's. I've pushed to 80 at the end of fermentation, but never during active...

 

[AlexKay]

For a dubbel I prefer the less-characterful WY1214 or Lallemand Abbaye. Both are, I think, Chimay? Can’t beat the Abbaye for convenience, especially when you can just toss in two packs instead of bothering with a starter.

 

[MikeCo]

I believe that's the Westmalle strain, right?

Yes, it's the Westmalle strain. I've typically started it in the mid to upper 60s and then let it free rise and/or ramp to get to 76 over 5 days. I have not experimented with other temperature profiles.

 

[MikeCo]

For a dubbel I prefer the less-characterful WY1214

The Northern Brewer recipe I linked above uses the Chimay Strain (Wy1214). I used that when I brewed it and found it to be quite characterful. Just a different character than Westmalle.

 

[SRJHops]

For a dubbel I prefer the less-characterful WY1214 or Lallemand Abbaye. Both are, I think, Chimay? Can’t beat the Abbaye for convenience, especially when you can just toss in two packs instead of bothering with a starter.

+1 for just using two packs. For the big beers I also toss in Be-134 at the same time too. It's for Saisons, but gives me the fruit and spice I want.

Other folks make starters to save a few bucks, but I figure I'm already saving money by brewing Belgians, which are half the cost of Hazy IPA's with all the expensive hops. Either way, one thing I believe is that a healthy "pro" level pitch is key.

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

My favorite dubbel I have made is the Northern Brewer recipe which uses Belgian Pale as the base malt. The link below contains another link to the ingredients and instructions.
https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/belgian-dubbel-all-grain-kit

I've made that one too and liked it. I also made it with my own ingredients - cloned the clone using Pale malt and light brown sugar and it was still good. I used 2 packs of Abbaye Ale the first time I made it. One pack of T-58 the second - both were good.
I tried to make it again weekend before last and made a mistake - I used 4 pounds! (5 gallon batch) of light brown sugar instead of 2. It went from 1.081 OG to 1.006 (9.8% ABV) and I used 2 packs of BE-134. It actually tastes OK but I think it's going to be kind of "bland triple or quad" as was mentioned in one of these posts.

 

[TheCache]

Just about to start a 2.5g Dubbel based on Jamil's Black Scapular recipe. I'll be using OYL-028, which is also a Westmalle strain (or so I'm told). My last Dubbel was a 5g batch using Wyeast 3787 and it was fantastic. Pitched at 63-64 with a decanted 2L starter. Within 24 hours temp was around 67-68 with a ton of movement in the fermenter (fermonster with clear sides). Big Krausen layer and lots of activity for 3-5 days. Gravity went from 1.075 to 1.014. Temperature reached 70 at the peak and I did not manually raise it higher.

Since this new batch is half the size, I'll do a 1L starter and pitch around 64-65 and it let it rise to mid 70's. Based on some of the comments above I may want to encourage the temp up to at least 74-75, but I'll wait to see what it does on its own. I'm using Belgian Pilsen as the base for this one (AG Biab), the last one used Briess Pilsen DME which would have been a US Pilsen (and an extract so definitely some difference in character). I expect this one may have richer malt character both from using all grain and also from using a continental grain.

But whether using extract or AG, I keep the malt bill simple - base + Munich, Caramunich, Special B and maybe a bit of something else for fun (the Scapular adds some aromatic), and some candi sugar which I'm going to try to make myself this time. Seems most of the flavor is from the activity of the yeast so pitch rate and temp control are key factors.

I bottle conditioned the last one after 4 weeks in the fermenter (primary only). I had a few bottles that lasted 4-6 months and it just kept getting better and better. I'll do similar this time, hopefully it will last as long.

Mmmm, Belgians!