# Brewfather Water Calculation (thermal expansion) question

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#### fatfloyd

##### Member
Hi, I'm trying to understand if I:

1- mash with 9.6 gallons of water at ambient temperature (before heating)

2- mash with 9.6 gallons of water at 160f? (Strike temp)

On the attached pic you can see sparge will take 8.91 gallons of water (ambient I guess) or 11.29 gallons (at 170f)

Correct me if I'm wrong while I'm looking at this, I'm still trying to understand brewing softwares better.

What is your grain bill? Batch size? That is a LOT of sparge water, too much ch actually.

Water expands, but only about 4% from room temp to boiling.

I calculate to get 60% of my boil volume from the mash and batch sparge with the other 40%.

The underlying question is interesting: do these brew day calculators use the expected liquor temperatures when defining volumes to be used - or are all volumes at room temperature - or something else?

Cheers!

On the attached pic you can see sparge will take 8.91 gallons of water (ambient I guess) or 11.29 gallons (at 170f)
Sparge water volume does not necessarily equal HLT water volume. There is some excess/spare water allowed for in the HLT. The exact amount will depend on your equipment profile, and probably some assumptions made by Brewfather.

Brew on

The underlying question is interesting: do these brew day calculators use the expected liquor temperatures when defining volumes to be used - or are all volumes at room temperature - or something else?

Cheers!
I put Palmers math into an excel spreadsheet. I’d have to look but i think there is a calculation that compensates for water expansion.

I don’t think it’s that big of a deal at our volume of brewing, but I could see it at commercial scale.

The underlying question is interesting: do these brew day calculators use the expected liquor temperatures when defining volumes to be used - or are all volumes at room temperature - or something else?

Cheers!
Your point is well taken. Software should explicitly state whatever assumptions that it makes.

This calculator gives water temps at 68°F (20°C) and process (mash or boil) temp explicitly. It's the only one I know of that does.

Brew on

I don’t think it’s that big of a deal at our volume of brewing, but I could see it at commercial scale.

4% ain't nothin'. For some, it matters much.

The underlying question is interesting: do these brew day calculators use the expected liquor temperatures when defining volumes to be used - or are all volumes at room temperature - or something else?

I don't know what they all do, but can say that BrewCipher assumes room temp for all volumes.

In Brewfather you chose whether the water volumes listed are hot (4% expansion) or ambient. You set this in the equipment profile.

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