Brewer needs some cider advice please

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1Mainebrew

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I was looking for a little insight as I begin delving into making cider. I bought 4 gallons of a locally pressed, pasteurized (but without preservatives) cider at Whole Foods. I made a starter with wyeast 4184 (sweet mead yeast) with DME. I pitched my starter at full krausen to the 4 gallons of cider (no additional sugar) which had warmed up to 55F from the fridge at the time of pitching. It is fermenting at 70 and the yeast is going nuts. I have a blowoff tube attached out of necessity (in beer thats a good thing, so I hope that its a good thing with cider too).

Well, I am NOT very well educated on the use campden tabs, K+ met, etc. I don't know if I ruined it by not treating the cider with anything to kill off any wild stuff prior to pitching (I'm assuming that would be unnecessary because it was pasteurized), or if I was supposed to add some chemicals to it or what. I am planning on adding black tea at some point, but I don't know how much or how. Any insight would be very helpful. Thanks everyone. My OG was 1.050.

My plan on this was to let it sit in primary for like 4-5 months then keg it. Is that cool or do I have to rack it?

I have a super ghetto batch in a carboy that was made in June with whole foods 365 apple juice in the glass jugs with a touch of crystal malt and 2 hop pellets (northern brewer) that I've just let sit as I forgot about it. I used the wine thief and checked a sample yesterday and it was remarkably good- it was clean and sweet and VERY appley albeit dry. I used a lavlin yeast (don't remember which one). Can I just bottle this one, or do I need to do anything to it? Again, any help is appreciated. Thanks!!!
 
With pasteurized juice campden tablets aren't essential. A really vigorous ferment with cider is pretty common. Apples are usually fairly nutrient rich, so unless the juice has been filtered a lot, the yeast will frequently take off like a missile.

If you want it to clear, you'll want to rack. If a little sediment isn't a big deal then you don't need to. If you want it to clear you'll also want to add pectin enzyme at some point. Otherwise the water soluble carbohydrate pectin will cloud the brew. That's really an ascetic concern more then anything else though, pectin doesn't taste bad. If your going to use it, then you will want to give the yeast a little time to use the sugar the pectin was broken down into by the pectin enzyme.

Cider is fairly friendly to acetobacter as well as yeast. So it's a good idea to bottle pasteurize if you are planning on storing the cider for more then 6 months or so. Otherwise, it may turn vinegary. Many people do very well without bottle pasteurizing, but it's cheap insurance IMO. That also means you can be sure you won't end up with bottle bombs.
 
If I keg this will I still need to pasteurize it? If so, how? Is there any other way to kill the acetobacter besides pasteurization post-fermentation if I keg?
 
If your kegging you shouldn't need to pasteurize. Acetobacter can only turn your brew into vinegar if it has at least some oxygen. Flush the air out of your keg with co2 before you fill it. No oxygen, no problem.

You could also use potassium metabisulfite, sulfides are nasty to acetobacter. The same directions for stabilizing wine that come with the potassium metabisulfite should work just fine for cider as well.
 
Leadgolem said:
If your kegging you shouldn't need to pasteurize. Acetobacter can only turn your brew into vinegar if it has at least some oxygen. Flush the air out of your keg with co2 before you fill it. No oxygen, no problem.

You could also use potassium metabisulfite, sulfides are nasty to acetobacter. The same directions for stabilizing wine that come with the potassium metabisulfite should work just fine for cider as well.

Will the K-met kill the yeast too? Would that rule out bottle carbing?
 
Will the K-met kill the yeast too? Would that rule out bottle carbing?

Yeast is more tolerant of sulfides then most bacteria, including acetobacter. You can use it and bottle carb, but you have to hit the right level pretty accurately. IMO, it's not really worth the trouble.

The cider flavor isn't generally impacted by pasteurization. If you want to bottle carb, give your bottles some time to get to the pressure you want, then pasteurize in the bottle. As long as you have a tester bottle of about the same volume and headspace it isn't that hard. Plus, you can actually backsweeten and bottle a sweet cider. This is sometimes done to maintain sugar content. IE: Bottle pasteurizing before the brew has hit FG so some sugar is still left in it.

Pasteurization isn't all that hard either. It's nice to have one of the tong things for removing jars from a water bath canner, but not essential. It's nice to actually have the canner too, but a big pot or a large slow cooker will do. There is a whole sticky on it in the cider sub-forum.
 
it's sulfite ions in the k-meta/campden rather than sulfide. if you add it at the end of fermentation it serves as an anti-oxidant and will prevent staling flavors. in practical terms if you don't dick around with the cider a whole lot, for example racking 10 times, or leaving it months in a half-full carboy exposed to half a carboy of air, you won't get acetobacter taking over. i think 'vinegar' is a paper tiger, a myth perpetuated because of a few sloppy cidermakers and the general lack of appreciation for dry ciders which can be rather sharp causing people (i've actually had this comment) to say "it's almost vinegar"! errr no, it's full of sour malic acid, and perhaps shocking to your palate, but it doesn't contain acetic acid. i never sulfite after fermentation, and never pasteurize unless i am bottling semi-sweet, and store cider for 1+ year, and never ever get acetobacter infections.
 
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