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Brew times getting shorter? Sign of the times?

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Some styles, call for certain mash profiles. Most of us use a single step mash, and why not, it works great. However certain styles (Belgian blond for example) use a step mash. And you can't step mash in 15 minutes, you need 15 minutes to reach your next temperature!
Yes shorter mashes are great for certain homebrewed beers but if you're looking to brew a certain style of beer it's better to stick with the right method.
With a step mash you have way more control over the final product as well.
If the style call for some aging, age it!
If it doesn't, don't age it!
It all depends on what you're brewing and what you're comfortable with.
 
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I only brew once a month or so and 80% of those are Lagers. So I really don't get too wrapped up in the time thing. All of my beers sit in primary for a month, even the ales.
 
I'll never understand why people like to shorten actual brewdays. This is a hobby we all enjoy, no? I'm often trying to find ways to make brewdays longer since I want to stretch out the fun. Sure, it can be a bit exhausting, but also a sense of accomplishment. As for fermentation, regular ales I give 2 weeks -no secondary, high gravity ales a month, then maybe secondary depending.
 
I'll never understand why people like to shorten actual brewdays. This is a hobby we all enjoy, no? I'm often trying to find ways to make brewdays longer since I want to stretch out the fun. Sure, it can be a bit exhausting, but also a sense of accomplishment. As for fermentation, regular ales I give 2 weeks -no secondary, high gravity ales a month, then maybe secondary depending.

I don't really try to extend brew day, but I also don't make any great effort to shorten it. I won't mess around measuring to see if mash conversion is done at 20 minutes, 30 minutes or 45 minutes. I just do the traditional hour. I am doing other things during that time. I clean mash equipment during the boil etc to keep brew day from dragging into brew evening. I take my time, don't stress myself and enjoy the day. I also don't worry about getting the beer bottled or kegged as soon as FG is reached. 2 weeks usually assures that fermentation is done...
 
There is no need to take gravity readings every day. 2 gravity readings would be enough. If you have brewed a few batches, you kinda have an idea how a certain yeast will perform in a certain wort. You can also " guess " how many days it needs fermenting and resting, and starting from there, you will draw the first reading, most probably when the fermentation is done. The second a few days apart just to be sure.

It helps to have a fermenter with a sample port and a digital refract so you can take a 50mL sample each day. There is a lot of information to be gained by monitoring the fermentation once or twice a day.

But if your game is to do a fixed X days primary, then why measure at all?
 
I'm not a fan of rushing fermentation solely based on gravity. When I first started brewing I listened to John Palmer talk about giving yeast adequate time to "clean up after their work is done" and this cleanup was not reflected in a change in gravity but can definitely affect taste of the finished beer. Patience does require multiple fermenters.

Otherwise I'm all in for Short and Shoddy. I've got a zero-boil test batch fermenting right now.
 
I'm not a fan of rushing fermentation solely based on gravity. When I first started brewing I listened to John Palmer talk about giving yeast adequate time to "clean up after their work is done" and this cleanup was not reflected in a change in gravity but can definitely affect taste of the finished beer. Patience does require multiple fermenters.

Don't make off flavors to begin with and you don't have anything to "clean up".
 
I'll never understand why people like to shorten actual brewdays. This is a hobby we all enjoy, no? I'm often trying to find ways to make brewdays longer since I want to stretch out the fun. Sure, it can be a bit exhausting, but also a sense of accomplishment. As for fermentation, regular ales I give 2 weeks -no secondary, high gravity ales a month, then maybe secondary depending.

I enjoy it a lot. But its a choice between a short brewday and not brewing at all. Thats part of why I had to take a 4 year break because we had a 1yo and 3yo running around and being unable to help out for 4-6 hours (plus another couple hours of yardwork) on a Saturday when we both have things to get done was out of the question.

Someday when they're all in high school or college I can dedicate entire days to brewing.
 
I still take my time with the brewing itself. Heck I did a RIS in January with a 90 minute mash and a 3 hour boil! That beer won't be ready until late summer.

We were talking the other day and certain beers like the NE IPA we discussed surprised me by being totally drinkable at day 14. Blown away.

Not all beers develop this quickly, and I am a very seldom stout drinker...and even less seldom stout brewer. This weekend I am going to swim upstream and brew a dry stout, so I'm wondering what is a general or acceptable timeline to bring this stout online? 8 weeks G2G...12 weeks? I know the real answer it the longer the better, but what is reasonable?
 
I'm on both sides of this one. My 'normal' brew day is around 4 - 5 hours. However, I do have a house ale that's a crowd fav that goes 'goop to glass' in 5 days. The cook time is short as well. Filling the pot to clean-up is about 45 minutes.
 
We were talking the other day and certain beers like the NE IPA we discussed surprised me by being totally drinkable at day 14. Blown away.

Not all beers develop this quickly, and I am a very seldom stout drinker...and even less seldom stout brewer. This weekend I am going to swim upstream and brew a dry stout, so I'm wondering what is a general or acceptable timeline to bring this stout online? 8 weeks G2G...12 weeks? I know the real answer it the longer the better, but what is reasonable?

I'm no expert (Between extract beers in the 90's and all grain over the last year, I've brewed about 20 batches). I've brewed a high gravity porter that was intended to "barrel age" and now I'm bulk aging a 12% stout. My general impression (again, from limited experience, years of craft beer drinking/aging and a crap ton of reading) is that the higher the gravity, the more it benefits from extra time in a secondary. The more that hops play into the flavor profile (as opposed to the bitterness profile) the more important it is to serve it fresh. I also think the roastier they are, the more they smooth out over time.

So, a low gravity dry stout probably doesn't need a bunch of time based on abv, doesn't need to be served fresh since the hop flavor isn't a key component, but may benefit from some time to mellow the roast since I think dry stouts tend to be too roasty. If it were me, I'd probably give it a month in the primary and call it good.

My porter spent a month in the primary, then got racked to a corny with toasted oak cubes, vanilla beans and bourbon. I transferred to a serving keg after three months. It's really smooth, creamy and tasty, but that was too long on the oak. Doing that beer again, I'll transfer to the secondary, but wait to add the oak/bourbon until after 2 months or so and only go 1 month (or maybe less) on the oak.

The stout I'm doing now will ultimately get oak, bourbon and nutmeg, but I'm going to wait on them until about 3 weeks before I transfer to a serving keg. I plan to age 6 months total.
 
To me brewing is a craft. I enjoy the challenge of mastering the process as much as the pleasure of consuming and sharing my creations. Although efficency is also a goal.

I like to read posts like this as your view clearly matches why I brew myself. There is a tremendous pride I feel when I produce beers that rival (or exceed he says not meaning to brag) commercial products, but if the truth be known, I suspect I would be getting off cheaper just buying beer at a store. I could have stuck with plastic pails, but the enjoyment isn't nearly the same as with semi-pro equipment.

I went thru a phase when I wanted to see how fast I could push thru a brew day. I do BIAB and got my process down to about 3.25 hours. But this wasn't enjoyable as I wanted to take my time and enjoy the brew day. I don't want this to be a brew frenzy day, I wanted this to be a day to look forward to, enjoy and relax.

Now that I whirlpool and have adopted several other more lengthy processes, my brew day has increased in time required to finish. This is fine with me and 6 hours is "MY" time and what I look forward to during the week waiting for brew day to get here.
 
Just wanted to put this out there for discussion. I've been noticing a lot of "Short & Shoddy", 15 minute brews, 30 minute boil/mash, no boil, no chill, grain to glass in 7 days, raw ale, etc lately in home brewing and wondering what's going on with this rush to get the beer brewed, packaged in such a short span of time. I'm just as guilty of it myself and did a rye mild recently with 30 min mash & 30 minute boil after listening to an Experimental Brewing Podcast.

You've got a lot of different things there, no-chill actually stretches the brewday into a second day for instance, even if it's less "handson" time. I think it's a few things :

The move to hop-forward NEIPA-type beers in the last 5 years - the commercial world is obsessing about drinking NEIPAs as quickly as possible, so it's natural that homebrewers are following suit. If the beers are all about fragile ephemeral volatiles, then preserving them means short grain-to-glass times (although the brewing itself may be more rigorous than other beers because you're worrying more about oxidation etc)

The move from brewing being handed down in tablets of stone from the Gospels of St Palmer and St Wheeler to a more "bottom up" culture where people learn from blogs and forums. Even people who don't buy into everything that eg Brulosophy or Experimental Brewing do, now have a more sceptical take on the received wisdom, they're more likely to try something new - and if it works well, there's a willing audience on the internet who will adopt it.

I think the big improvements in malt happened earlier, although dry yeasts and the availability of wild bugs have definitely improved; but technology does play a part. Partly in the availability of high tech to a few people, such as the DNA analysis in the big Treehouse thread here. It's the sort of thing that would take a few $k to set up the lab, but if you're working in a lab then the marginal costs are minimal, and even if the sequencing can't be done by anyone it can come out with some simple suggestions like "this brewery is using yeasts X and Y" which can be implemented by anyone. Or one person with a Tilt can see that yeasts X and Y take 5 days but Z takes 3 days, or another yeast tends to stall after 3 days and so with the appropriate prodding at the right time can be made to ferment in 6 days rather than the 12 days it takes without prodding.

Aside from the high-tech kit generating knowledge that gets into the public domain for use by everybody, you also have low-tech kit getting into the hands of ordinary Joe. Inkbirds for instance, mean that ordinary Joe can have far better control of fermentation temperatures, which in turn means he can cut a few corners elsewhere without compromising the overall beer. Same with water company reports being freely available on the internet, which give a massive leg-up on the water front, along with cheap RO water and RO units.

Finally, I think you've got to be a bit careful of equating noise on the forums to actual activity. Everyone knows how to brew a 4% English bitter, whereas people are still figuring out how to brew NEIPAs - so that's what the traffic is about. There's lots of people out there quietly brewing extract kits that just work, and they'd think it would be a bit weird to be talking about their brewing on a bulletin board. So you don't hear from them.
 
Wife is gone and I'm stuck home with the 4 and 6 year old but still taking my time to brew this afternoon. It helps that it's beautiful out and my 6yo just discovered video games too.

A few years ago I wouldn't be able to do this.
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Just curious, what in the brew day can possibly make it 7 hours long?

I did a double brew yesterday, IPA and a kettle sour, and total time from heating of the first strike water to final cleanup was 4 hours 10 minutes. 60 minute mash on both, though the kettle sour was no sparge, and I'll still have to give it a quick boil in a couple days after the lacto does its thing. Mashed on the second beer while the first was boiling. I find that's an efficient use of my time. But I can't imagine what I'd have to do to stretch my brew day for a single beer out to 7 hours.
7 hours seems long but when doing 90 minute mashes and boils I frequently end up between 6 and 6.5 hours.
 
I average about 6 hours start to finish, and I always mash for 75 minutes and boil for 60. Of course this doesn't include the time spent beforehand cleaning the entire kitchen top-to-bottom as a condition of my wife's graciously giving up her kitchen for 6 hours every other Sunday.

I think I read somewhere that two-thirds of brewing time is spent cleaning, so my process seems to fit that estimate. That is, if you consider setup/tear-down tasks to be part of 'cleaning'.
 
Brew day usually takes around 5-6 hrs for me. It depends on how smooth things are going, and how many ''dishes'' I have to do. I usually mash for 60 min, sparge usually goes for around 30-45 min, boil for 60 or sometimes a little longer if I screwed up and want to boil off some extra water. Usually I sterilize a fermenter while boiling the wort, and use the caustic/acid in turn from that to sterilize any empty kegs I may have.

I'm not particularly in a hurry, but I don't like to drag things out. In the spring & summer I have very little free time, and in the winter it is often pretty cold out.

One advantage of outdoor brewing(hot side) is I do not have to be dainty while cleaning up, and can just hose things out.

One step I take to speed things up is I start the fire under the boil kettle as soon as a few gallons are in during sparge. I have not noticed any ill effect from this and it saves time waiting around for the boil to start. I'd be interested in hearing if there is a theoretical down side to this practice.

Usually the lagers are in fermenter for 10-14 days, the fermentation takes the full 2 weeks if the cellar is cold(close to 50F), and 3 days for diacityl rest. I do 2 or 3 trub dumps during this time, and take gravity readings. I had to get a second fermenter to take advantage of the cold cellar and more time off work I have in winter to lager away.

The summer ales go faster and do not need to be aged as much for best flavor, but I still like to give them a few weeks after kegging.
 
I thought once I had a permanent brewery setup I could knock some time off my brew days, and that was true wrt clean-up, probably save a solid half-hour having a slop sink in the brew space.
But....since the whole LoDO revelation took hold I've been trending in the wrong direction, as pre-boiling my brewing liquor has actually lengthened my brew days overall.

Choices...

Cheers! ;)
 
10 gal finished batches, down to about seven hours for 'normal' beers, counting cleanup. around eight after the last few due to getting a conical, i'm still figuring it out.
 
But....since the whole LoDO revelation took hold I've been trending in the wrong direction, as pre-boiling my brewing liquor has actually lengthened my brew days.

What do you do, boil the water let cool down to mash, then again for sparge, or use a cooler and dueling HLTs?

Had never heard of LoDO until this forum, I have already figured a couple ways to reduce pre-boil aeration, not that I was aware my beer had a problem. Seems the pre-boil step requires much more time & resources.
 
It is a bit of a chore. I split the entire brewing water volume between bk (strike) and hlt (sparge) and get those boiling while I crush the grist bill, then pump transfer from bk to hlt to hit the correct volumes, do the respective salt and acid additions, then start the brewing...

Cheers!
 
If I have a brew day with a few buddies, then it’s a great day to fire up the smoker and grill. A lot of the process is waiting for things to heat up, etc. If I have some spare time on a day off, I’ll try to get done in 4-5 hours and get stuff cleaned as I go so when it’s time to put it into the fermenter, all I have left to do is pitch the yeast. I went electric to save time on those days. However there have been days where I’d mash for an hour and a half while grilling and enjoy time with Home brew friends.

Once I’m finished my brew stand and what not, I’m gonna brew my first Oktoberfest and ferment it “warm”. I’m really excited to see how it comes out.
 
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It is a bit of a chore. I split the entire brewing water volume between bk (strike) and hlt (sparge) and get those boiling while I crush the grist bill, then pump transfer from bk to hlt to hit the correct volumes, do the respective salt and acid additions, then start the brewing...

Cheers!

Thanks for the reply, I guess I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing for now, trying my bet to keep it simple. Maybe there was a good reason to stay off brewing forums, lest I find myself dissatisfied with my working set up.

I see your from MA, hi from off cape cod.
 
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