Brew Pump Woes

[DonnieZ]

So I finally decided to add a brew pump to my brewing setup. I got this primarily to move wort through the plate chiller without having to lift 5 gallons of boiling wort to a higher elevation, as well as to get a good flush of the chiller, but I see lots of uses for this thing in the future.

I bought a Chugger pump with a center inlet and mounted it into a toolbox:

And this is the approximate setup:

So I did a test run tonight and I was very underwhelmed with the performance. I had a couple of issues:

1. If the ball valve on the outlet of the pump head is open any farther than in the picture above, the pump seems to lose prime and it's game over. It does take some fidgeting with the valve and turning the pump on and off to get it to start pumping.

2. The pump gets hot, and after it's ran for a bit sometimes it won't turn back on and start pumping. There was a time or two I turned it on and I'd hear the motor hum but no rotation. If I'd turn it off and on again it would usually come right back to action. I don't have a whole lot of experience with these pumps, but I think it's a little louder than I expect it to be.

I was able to get it going and cycle through some hot PBW through my chiller, and then do a rinse cycle, however I'd say the pump ran for 15-20 minutes and it got pretty hot. I did have the toolbox open for the last part of the pump cycle. I guess the pump is rated at 7GPM max, however I was getting 1-1.5 max out of my setup. I realize the pump has a 3/4" inlet and I'm only feeding it with a 1/2" line, so I probalby won't get 7GPM, but I'm just not sure if it's running right.

I really wanted to get up and brew tomorrow morning, however I'm not fully convinced everything is good with the pump setup.


Any help / advice would be appreciated!!

 

[241]

You might have more success with the pot higher up and the chiller lower. Right now as setup if there isn't flow the chiller will run out of both ends. Part of keeping a good prime is making sure every part of the loop is flooded.

 

[acidrain]

A shorter, 3/4" inlet hose would help.
Are you surprised it's getting hot inside of a closed box?

 

[Natdavis777]

I second elevating the pot. If you find that the pump hums but won't rotate, take the pump head off and the backing plate off of that and inspect the impeller. I've had grain get stuck on the spindle and gave me headaches until I found that was the culprit.

If you have issues with priming, something else you can do is add a bleeder valve



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[mattd2]

...If you have issues with priming, something else you can do is add a bleeder valve
...

First I would get rid of the big loop after the chiller and make sure that when priming the end of the hose is not underwater. That should hopefully allow the water to flow and push the air out of the pump head.

 

[DonnieZ]

Thanks for the replies. I found out some more information that may give those with more experience some insight as to what may be the culprit here.

I took the pump setup over to a buddy's house. He's got a full electric 3 kettle setup and two pumps. Fortunately, we use the same size QD and it was easy to test.

I got the same kind of performance at his house, and his kettles are probably 8-12" higher off the ground than mine are with similar length hoses. We debugged the thing for about a half an or so and came up dry (so to speak.) When shutting the pump down, I hear a small "grinding" noise that almost sounds like the impeller.

Finally I decided to try the pump as it came - pump head attached directly to the motor with no toolbox in the middle. The pump ran like a champ and moved water really fast with the output valve wide open.

Something with the toolbox is not being a team player. My two suspicions are:

The magnet needs to come out on the shaft maybe 1/8" as that is about the thickness of the toolbox. I tried it this morning and it didn't help.

Somehow, when the toolbox in play, the magnet is not perfectly vertical and/or centered in the black pump head housing. This is causing problems with the magnetic field and it's not driving the impeller properly. I played around with the alignment this morning as well for about an hour and I still can't get it to run right.

I know others have mounted these things in the toolbox and I haven't seen many tales like this. I know my carpentry skills aren't the best, but I think I did an OK job with this and I'm just lost as to where to go from here.

I will be including a link to a YouTube video in the next post when it's done uploading so you can get an idea as to what's going on.

Any input would be appreciated!

 

[DonnieZ]

Here's a link to the You Tube video of the pump running. It sounds somewhat loud in the video, and I think it was at the time but it doesn't seem to run that loud now. It still performs just about the same.\

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of7BT8id2XM[/ame]

Note that if I run the pump with the outlet valve any more open than it is, the pump won't pump any more liquid until I shut it off and run it again.

 

[Travestian]

Can't see the video as it is marked private. Do you have pictures of how it is mounted in the toolbox?

 

[DonnieZ]

Try it now. I changed the privacy settings - should be good now.

Will grab a pic or two shortly.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[Travestian]

Video works now. Sounds like you've got metal on metal grinding in that pump casing. Interesting to see pics of how you put the pump/box together. I wouldn't run the pump until you've got it figured out.

 

[Owly055]

Your inlet is too small and way too long. You will get the best results if you use 3/4" fittings and minimal if any hose. Set things up where you can connect the pump directly to the outlet of the kettle with zero hose and use the largest fittings possible. You are reducing a 3/4" pipe down to half inch and running a lot of 1/2 hose. Maximize the diameter of your suction line and reduce it to almost zero. This will help reduce the priming problem. Pull the pump out of the box..... You want the pump as cool as possible to prevent cavitation..... also known as vapor lock (remember when cars vapor locked?). A fan or a cold water stream on the pump body will also help. Keep the pump as cool as possible

On the pressure side, do the same thing...... connect directly to the chiller, and run the largest possible line the shortest possible distance returning to the kettle. Every foot of that small line is creating friction......just like closing a valve. Remember how much more water you have at the faucet than at the end of the garden hose, and how your flow drops drastically when you screw 3 or 4 hoses together.......... And this is with 60 PSI water pressure. You have far less pressure than that.

Personally, I would like to see someone market a pump for brewing that is built like those sump pumps where the motor is on top of a post, and the pump is in the liquid. This would eliminate these kinds of problems.


H.W.

 

[acidrain]

Finally I decided to try the pump as it came - pump head attached directly to the motor with no toolbox in the middle. The pump ran like a champ and moved water really fast with the output valve wide open.

Are you saying that you took the head off and sandwiched the plastic toolbox wall in between the housing and the motor?
You already figured it out, but there's your problem.
Just cut a hole that is the shape of the pump and fit the pump through the hole if you must have an enclosed pump.

Personally, I'm not a fan of enclosing the pump... many threads on pumps overheating and shutting down right when you need them.

 

[DonnieZ]

I got it working pretty well.

Turns out I needed to slide the magnet outward on the shaft slightly more to account for the thickness of the wall of the toolbox. Once I did this, it seems to run like a champ. It also runs much cooler now that the motor isn't working harder to spin the magnet.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb-WLnCyWgo[/ame]

 

[cracked1]

I was having overheating issues when I would pump boiling wort through my CF chiller. I added two vent holes with ABS grates near the motor and a PC fan blowing air out of the box. The fan is wired to the pump switch so if the pump is running so is the fan. It does a great job pulling cool air into the box and blowing hot air out.

 

[Bobby_M]

Enclosing the motor is not recommended unless you have really good venting. The other issue with sandwich mounting the motor is that you may have also gotten the cup magnet off center and it could have been making contact with the rear of the pump housing. As you've found, you need to pull the magnet outward to compensate for the wall thickness but also look to make sure the magnet is perfectly centered in the mounting ring.

 

[augiedoggy]

I dont mean to be smug but honestly I havent had any of these issues with the smaller 12v dc pumps I use. Its ironic that these larger pumps seem have all these requirements to function correctly... I mount my pumps with quick disconnect camlocks right to the ball valve on the kettle bases and they prime fine. sometimes I will have to crack a camlock to let air out of the line and prime them but not often. granted the flow is not quite on par with these but these really seem like overkill for a homebrewers needs.
just think this info might be useful to anyone reading and trying to decide on which direction to go with pumps.

 

[AnOldUR]

. . .I havent had any of these issues with the smaller 12v dc pumps I use . . .

We're getting off topic, but I think it's more (like the beer we brew) about having a balanced system. If you've invested a lot into kettles, stainless fittings and an automated brew system, the more expensive pumps make sense. Using a $150 pump with your used Igloo cooler and turkey fryer is a bit silly. Goes the other way too. I have to chuckle when I see heavy stainless triclover fittings attached to the $25 little plastic 12V pumps. But that's just me. I'm easily entertained.



edit to say:
that I don't have any of the noted problems with my 12V pumps either.

 

[DonnieZ]

Enclosing the motor is not recommended unless you have really good venting. The other issue with sandwich mounting the motor is that you may have also gotten the cup magnet off center and it could have been making contact with the rear of the pump housing. As you've found, you need to pull the magnet outward to compensate for the wall thickness but also look to make sure the magnet is perfectly centered in the mounting ring.

Now that I have the pump actually running, I'm going to add some venting to the setup. I can also run with the lid open. I like the fan setup in the orange box that's in this post.

I initially did have some issues with the magnet not being centered in the housing. I saw some marks on the pump housing as well as the inside of the magnet was worn away by maybe .3-.5mm. So far though since I've gotten it running it doesn't seem to have affected it a whole lot.

Just noticed exactly who you are! Recognize those QDs? You should.. They're yours! I need to swap one out though, I ordered an "A" instead of an "F".

 

[grainbill]

Been having a similar problem with my Chugger, cutting out or over heating. The weird thing, and why I can't figure mine out, is that I have a March pump rigged up identically and don't have any problems. The LHBS guy said the Chugger must be overheating because the winding is incorrect. I contacted Chugger directly and they asked for a picture of my setup. I gave them hose lengths, elevations from pumps to kettle etc. Haven't heard from them since...I plan to sell the Chugger for cheap to someone who only want to do 5 gal batches and get me another March....I brew two 10 gal batches back to back and really don't want to chuk around with a pos pump every time I brew....

 

[Owly055]

The pump in a box is cute.................but what's the point? I see no concrete benefit, and a lot of liabilities. Put an attractive handle on the pump with two nice stainless steel bands, put the pump, chiller, and lines in the box for storage. Put a 3/4" quick connector right on the inlet of the pump that mates it directly to the outlet from the kettle........ no hose. Make a bracket that allows the chiller to mount right on the top edge of the kettle so it can be connected with the shortest possible hose, and discharge with the shortest possible hose using the chiller discharge for aeration. You have way too much hose full of wort, too much hose to drain, to store and to clean. It's killing your flow, and hurting you on both the suction and pressure side..... especially suction.

H.W.

 

[DonnieZ]

The pump in a box is cute.................but what's the point?

The point is to have a place to store a pump, all accessories, and have the pump be in an area where it's not going to get splashed with hot water or wort. It also makes it portable and easy to store.

I see no concrete benefit, and a lot of liabilities.

Liabilities? Such as?

Put an attractive handle on the pump with two nice stainless steel bands, put the pump, chiller, and lines in the box for storage.

Sorry, that just doesn't work for me. I don't like to do things half assed. I don't have a lot of room to brew, nor a permanent setup. Steel bands around the pump with some kind of "attractive handle?" Just... No.

Put a 3/4" quick connector right on the inlet of the pump that mates it directly to the outlet from the kettle........ no hose.

Do people even do this? Is that even a thing? I don't think I've ever seen a pump mounted directly to a kettle. This also locks that pump to that kettle, and makes the kettle incredibly cumbersome to move around. Now it's somewhat portable.

Make a bracket that allows the chiller to mount right on the top edge of the kettle so it can be connected with the shortest possible hose, and discharge with the shortest possible hose using the chiller discharge for aeration.

I'm not going to lie, I could shorten up the hoses, but for right now I think its doing just fine.

[

You have way too much hose full of wort, too much hose to drain, to store and to clean.

Cleaning a shorter hose is just as much work as cleaning a longer one. Once brew days is done, I just put some PBW in the kettle, and recirculate for 10-15 minutes. Then run a clean water cycle through and recirculate for a couple of minutes and boom.. done.

It's killing your flow, and hurting you on both the suction and pressure side..... especially suction.

The final video I posted where it's working seems to me that I'm getting a pretty good flow. Good enough for me and my 5 gallon batches, or even if I wanted to do a 10 gallon batch. I'm still going to have to slow it down going through the plate chiller.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Whatever you do, don't take any of the advice you asked for, from the folks that were kind enough to share their experiences and "pump woes" with you.........

 

[AnOldUR]

Do people even do this? Is that even a thing? I don't think I've ever seen a pump mounted directly to a kettle.

Yes. For recirculating mash, pumping from MLT to kettle and kettle whirlpooling.

You asked.

 

[Owly055]

The point is to have a place to store a pump, all accessories, and have the pump be in an area where it's not going to get splashed with hot water or wort. It also makes it portable and easy to store.



Liabilities? Such as?



Sorry, that just doesn't work for me. I don't like to do things half assed. I don't have a lot of room to brew, nor a permanent setup. Steel bands around the pump with some kind of "attractive handle?" Just... No.




Do people even do this? Is that even a thing? I don't think I've ever seen a pump mounted directly to a kettle. This also locks that pump to that kettle, and makes the kettle incredibly cumbersome to move around. Now it's somewhat portable.



I'm not going to lie, I could shorten up the hoses, but for right now I think its doing just fine.

[ Cleaning a shorter hose is just as much work as cleaning a longer one. Once brew days is done, I just put some PBW in the kettle, and recirculate for 10-15 minutes. Then run a clean water cycle through and recirculate for a couple of minutes and boom.. done.



The final video I posted where it's working seems to me that I'm getting a pretty good flow. Good enough for me and my 5 gallon batches, or even if I wanted to do a 10 gallon batch. I'm still going to have to slow it down going through the plate chiller.

I sincerely apologize for responding.............
It's obvious that you don't want to hear it. Connecting the pump directly to the quick connector already in place......... 3/4 would be better........... is what I was recommending, and yes people actually do this. The hose is NOT necessary. It didn't dawn on me that storing a tool box with a pump attached was easier than storing just a pump....... stupid me. For some reason, I thought all those hoses would be full of wort when you got done chilling, and to me that looked like a headache......... When you disconnect connectors, wort is going to run out wherever it can. Obviously this isn't a problem for you. I don't use hoses and pumps, so I don't slop wort all over the place.........I'd failed to realize that this was a reality of brewing, so protecting the pump from splashing wort was something I never considered.
My many years of experience with pumps, both hydraulic and water, positive displacement and centrifugal obviously are of no value here. I was attempting to address the fundamental flaws in your plumbing that resulted in "loss of prime" an less flow than you thought you should get. My customers depend on their equipment to generate a profit, be it in manufacturing or agriculture. I sometimes forget that hobbyists have a different agenda........ Looking cool is more important than working well.
Again, please accept my humble apologies........... It was not my intent to piss you off, only to offer some suggestions to make things work better based on my own personal and business experience.

H.W.

 

[DonnieZ]

I sincerely apologize for responding.............
It's obvious that you don't want to hear it. Connecting the pump directly to the quick connector already in place......... 3/4 would be better........... is what I was recommending, and yes people actually do this. The hose is NOT necessary. It didn't dawn on me that storing a tool box with a pump attached was easier than storing just a pump....... stupid me. For some reason, I thought all those hoses would be full of wort when you got done chilling, and to me that looked like a headache......... When you disconnect connectors, wort is going to run out wherever it can. Obviously this isn't a problem for you. I don't use hoses and pumps, so I don't slop wort all over the place.........I'd failed to realize that this was a reality of brewing, so protecting the pump from splashing wort was something I never considered.
My many years of experience with pumps, both hydraulic and water, positive displacement and centrifugal obviously are of no value here. I was attempting to address the fundamental flaws in your plumbing that resulted in "loss of prime" an less flow than you thought you should get. My customers depend on their equipment to generate a profit, be it in manufacturing or agriculture. I sometimes forget that hobbyists have a different agenda........ Looking cool is more important than working well.
Again, please accept my humble apologies........... It was not my intent to piss you off, only to offer some suggestions to make things work better based on my own personal and business experience.

H.W.

I'm not trying to be an ass, however I gave what I believed to be valid reasons as to why these suggestions may not work for me. My setup has to be portable, and from what I have seen on HBT, a pump setup with hoses actually is used in practice more often than not.

I apologize that I have to brew in a confined space, somewhat clandestinely as it's probably against the rules where I live to operate a propane burner anywhere on the properly. I have to be able to have flexibility, portability, and easy put up and tear down, and stuff has to be stored away neatly so I can get a car back in the garage when I'm done. This is what works for me, and so far during the test runs it seems to be working. I'll find out this weekend for my first brew day with this setup.

I did say that I could probably shorten the hoses, but with a setup like this it's not hard to gravity the small amount of wort left in the hoses after its done. Though I'm not a new brewer, I am new to the world of incorporating a pump and there's still things I need to figure out - like where to put all the equipment during a brew session so maybe eventually I can work on shortening up the hoses. I was just excited to see this project come to fruition.

I'm not sure, but did you see where I posted that everything is working fine now? I mean, the pump isn't losing prime during wide open operation, and the flow rate is acceptable for me. Am I missing something here? Is there something I'm not getting out of this setup that I should be?

The one other benefit to this setup is it's largely portable. Anyone who has a 1/2" valve on their kettle can borrow the entire setup from 1/2" QD to the hose that goes into the fermentation vessel and see how incorporating a pump into their brew day will work.

 

[Bobby_M]

I have had some customers asking that I start stocking 3/4" fittings and silicone tubing. I'm not 100% sold because I think it's a limited market and buying any of this stuff in smaller quantities is cost prohibitive. I did just get a few hundred feet of 3/4" ID silicone, but I do think having a size mismatch takes some flexibility out of the QD system and the idea of any to any pumping.

 

[eric19312]

I got it working pretty well.

Turns out I needed to slide the magnet outward on the shaft slightly more to account for the thickness of the wall of the toolbox. Once I did this, it seems to run like a champ. It also runs much cooler now that the motor isn't working harder to spin the magnet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb-WLnCyWgo

Flow looks good to me in the test but what happens when you try pulling very hot (even boiling wort)? You may run into difficulty there when the suction of the pump causes the wort to boil in your lines leading to vapor lock. Much of the advice above will probably help if it does..I'd start with trying to get more vertical distance between the pump and the kettle and shorter lines.

I have the same pump and have been dealing with same issue. Each brew day as I get my hoses worked out I seem to be doing better. Now that I have a proper stand to work on I plan to really get the hose length and connections dialed in for my system (replacing barbs with camlocks, shortening hose lengths where possible).

I am intrigued by idea to switch my inlet hoses to 3/4 inch ID but am concerned about the additional cost. Like you my design isn't really suited for direct mount of the pump to the kettle and I'll take good enough over best until good enough is proven not to work.

haha didnt see Bobby's post above...got to think about that 3/4 connection...

 

[Bobby_M]

Yeah, for starters the 3/4" silicone is going to be about 3.50 a foot.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Connecting the pump directly to the quick connector already in place......... 3/4 would be better........... is what I was recommending

If your valve and dip tube inside the pot are 1/2", a 3/4" tube isn't going to help any. 3/4" would be awesome if everything before the pump was 3/4". That 3/4" stuff is pricey.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I sometimes forget that hobbyists have a different agenda........ Looking cool is more important than working well. Again, please accept my humble apologies........... It was not my intent to piss you off

"I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm just trying to explain to you that you're a moron for trying to have your cake and eat it too."

His pump now works well AND looks good. Strange how that can work out if one puts their mind to it.

 

[mcl]

I have had some customers asking that I start stocking 3/4" fittings and silicone tubing. I'm not 100% sold because I think it's a limited market and buying any of this stuff in smaller quantities is cost prohibitive. I did just get a few hundred feet of 3/4" ID silicone, but I do think having a size mismatch takes some flexibility out of the QD system and the idea of any to any pumping.

Bobby, I would buy them if you had them. I bought my keg bottom drains and camlocks from you and would love to replace the entire inlet side of my system to 3/4 inch (including the bottom drain kit). This would especially help when I am cleaning grain from the mash tun.

 

[augiedoggy]

The point is to have a place to store a pump, all accessories, and have the pump be in an area where it's not going to get splashed with hot water or wort. It also makes it portable and easy to store.



Liabilities? Such as?



Sorry, that just doesn't work for me. I don't like to do things half assed. I don't have a lot of room to brew, nor a permanent setup. Steel bands around the pump with some kind of "attractive handle?" Just... No.




Do people even do this? Is that even a thing? I don't think I've ever seen a pump mounted directly to a kettle. This also locks that pump to that kettle, and makes the kettle incredibly cumbersome to move around. Now it's somewhat portable.



I'm not going to lie, I could shorten up the hoses, but for right now I think its doing just fine.

[ Cleaning a shorter hose is just as much work as cleaning a longer one. Once brew days is done, I just put some PBW in the kettle, and recirculate for 10-15 minutes. Then run a clean water cycle through and recirculate for a couple of minutes and boom.. done.



The final video I posted where it's working seems to me that I'm getting a pretty good flow. Good enough for me and my 5 gallon batches, or even if I wanted to do a 10 gallon batch. I'm still going to have to slow it down going through the plate chiller.

ok I have to say something here.... mounting the pump in a plastic toolbox with the plastic wall pinched in the middle between the two halves is "half assed" they are not meant to be used that way it causes issues like you already seen plus this is the kind of stuff that voids warranties and such. I do think that what was trying to be said.
I DO get where your coming from many condos and townhouses have ridiculous rules...

mounting the pumps directly to the kettle works for the small light plastic pumps but its not feasable for the but clunky industrial steel pumps...
as far as the comments about more fancy equipment better suited to the bigger pumps I see the point but still dont really agree, I think it depends on the placement and configuration of the equipment and possible the size of the brew rig.... I do believe that for an electric brew setup the stainless pumps are just plain overkill for homebrewers, and I dont see any benefit except being able to maybe stand up better to being dropped on a concrete floor. Otherwise they still seem to fail just as easily and they usually need to be choked way down for many uses plus you need a certian amount of hose lenth to prevent cavitation with the big pumps from what I read...

 

[augiedoggy]

Yes. For recirculating mash, pumping from MLT to kettle and kettle whirlpooling.

You asked.


Whirlpool in action . . .

these pumps are $21 with free shipping from California on ebay right now. they pump 3 gallons a minute.... I have been using one for about a year now along with a couple tan ones they work very well and would honestly make your setup a hell of a lot more portable and easy to clean up and store...

 

[LandoLincoln]

I do believe that for an electric brew setup the stainless pumps are just plain overkill for homebrewers, and I dont see any benefit except being able to maybe stand up better to being dropped on a concrete floor. Otherwise they still seem to fail just as easily and they usually need to be choked way down for many uses plus you need a certian amount of hose lenth to prevent cavitation with the big pumps from what I read...

I've owned both a plastic inline head and a steel center-fed head, and the plastic head had plastic threads (obviously) and because of that, I couldn't crank down on the fittings that much for fear of stripping the threads. The end result was my fittings wobbling and leaking a bit. So I upgraded to a steel head and now I could tighten the fittings down really well, so now I have no wobble and no leaking. So there's one definite advantage to owning a steel head.

As long as my pump head is flooded, I have no problems with cavitation, but I don't have super short hoses, so I can't comment on the minimum hose length requirement. Never had to choke my pumps down for anything, other than draining the MLT too fast or going through the CFC too fast.

 

[LandoLincoln]

these pumps are $21 with free shipping from California on ebay right now. they pump 3 gallons a minute.... I have been using one for about a year now along with a couple tan ones they work very well and would honestly make your setup a hell of a lot more portable and easy to clean up and store...

How do you go from AC power to DC power with those?

 

[MichaelBrock]

I use a pump predominately to circulate the wort during chilling with an IC. I started with one of those small solar hot water pumps but the flow rate just wasn't sufficient. I bought a chugger and it significantly sped up my cooling rate. I really don't understand how anyone could argue that a chugger or March pump is overkill for the typical homebrewer. I don't "choke" my flow rate down at all (other than what comes with the overhead for the plumbing).

 

[Natdavis777]

I know my LHBS keeps some hose clamps in stock for different sizes, but when changed hoses, ie from kettle>pump>whirlpool to kettle>pump>chiller>whirlpool ( to cool then entire batch at once) I use a pair of hemostats to avoid dumping wort from the hoses. This used to make quite a mess until I started clamping before changing out hoses fwiw


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[augiedoggy]

I use a pump predominately to circulate the wort during chilling with an IC. I started with one of those small solar hot water pumps but the flow rate just wasn't sufficient. I bought a chugger and it significantly sped up my cooling rate. I really don't understand how anyone could argue that a chugger or March pump is overkill for the typical homebrewer. I don't "choke" my flow rate down at all (other than what comes with the overhead for the plumbing).

the black one pumps 3 gallons per minute and the tan ones are like 2.5. I have to slow my pump down in the summer when pumping through my plate chiller. I have used them for recirculating through my herms coil and now use them with my rims coil and they are plenty fast enough for me... I guess its all relative to ones accompanying hardware.
you do need to have at least a 1amp 12v powersupply or they wont perform well at all.

 

[augiedoggy]

How do you go from AC power to DC power with those?

well most people just use a wall wort powersupply like a laptop or lcd monitor powersupply (any 1 amp or larger 12v powersuipply will work including an old pc supply) But I use an old 24/12v power supply from an engineering scanner I scrapped its basically a small profile computer powersupply with 24v as well which I use to control my relays I use in place of contractors in my electric control panel. I also use $7 pwm speed controllers which allow me to adjust and mark presets for the pump speed without messing with ball valves.

I used teflon tape and stainless camlock fitting and had no issues tightening it down although I was nervous because I read someone tighened them with a wrench and snapped the neck off...(I hand tightened)

 

[DonnieZ]

ok I have to say something here.... mounting the pump in a plastic toolbox with the plastic wall pinched in the middle between the two halves is "half assed" they are not meant to be used that way it causes issues like you already seen plus this is the kind of stuff that voids warranties and such. I do think that what was trying to be said.
I DO get where your coming from many condos and townhouses have

It seems as though there's two schools of thought on homebrewing - the "I'm right and you're not" and the "Wow, that's a pretty cool way to use something that it wasn't intended for to make brewing easier / better / more fun."

As long as the pump is working properly, I don't really see an issue here with warranty or otherwise. I was talking with another member of our brew club the other day and he said something that I totally agreed with - "I think I enjoy building up my brewery more than brewing itself sometimes." For me at least, there's some satisfaction in figuring something out, building it, and seeing it work in action to either make brewing easier, better, or more fun.

In this case, I think the pump in a toolbox is going to make brewing easier and more fun. Is it going to help me make better beer at the moment? Probably not until I figure out if I want to use this for mash re-circulation or to drive some kind of sparge setup.

I guess there are people who just want to buy everything from the store, read the instruction manual and follow the straight and narrow - and then there are those who have the ambition and vision to make things work better.