Brasilian Beginner II

[claudiobr74]

Hello Friends Brewers, my name is Claudio and I live in Brazil. I´m doing my second all grain beer, a red ale, and I'm having a problem that I like to share with you. After the boil I had a OG 1.074 and was wainting a FG 1.020 at least. I used a 2 pkg of dry ferment (nothingan) and had a greate fermentation activite for 36 hours. The gravity after 4 days was 1.045 and after 3 weeks 1.036. I see no activity. The temperature is 68F. What was my mistake? Thank you everybody.

That was my recipe: it was 5 galons

5,00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (3,8 EBC) Grain 1 86,2 %
0,25 kg Caraaroma (103,0 EBC) Grain 2 4,3 %
0,10 kg Chocolate Malt (803,0 EBC) Grain 3 1,7 %

Mash Steps
Protein Rest Add 14,90 l of water at 54,0 C 50,0 C 30 min
Saccharification Heat to 68,9 C over 15 min 68,9 C 30 min
Mash Out Heat to 75,6 C over 10 min 75,6 C 10 min
Fly sparge with 17,20 l water at 75,6 C

Boil Ingredients
0,45 kg Candi Sugar, Amber (147,8 EBC) Sugar 4 7,8 %
30,00 g Willamette [4,40 %] - Boil 60,0 min Hop 5 13,0 IBUs
1,00 g Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15,0 mins) Fining 6 -
30,00 g Goldings, East Kent [4,30 %] - Boil 15,0 min Hop 7 6,3 IBUs
5,00 g Cinnamon Stick (Boil 5,0 mins) Spice 8 -
Post Boil Gravity: 1,074

2,0 pkg Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-)

 

[DrummerBoySeth]

How did you aerate the wort before adding the yeast? 1.074 is a fairly big brew, and should require quite a lot of aeration to make sure the yeast has what it needs to work. Also, I like to use yeast nutrient on higher gravity brews. Did you do this? If not, that could explain the stuck fermentation.

 

[claudiobr74]

I had it aerated with an aquarium pump. I don't know if was enouth. Do you recommend something? What about add more yeast? and I did not use yeast nutrient. Thank you.

 

[gmcastil]

I had it aerated with an aquarium pump. I don't know if was enouth. Do you recommend something? What about add more yeast? and I did not use yeast nutrient. Thank you.

What temperature did you pitch your yeast at?

 

[Dan]

I had it aerated with an aquarium pump. I don't know if was enouth. Do you recommend something? What about add more yeast? and I did not use yeast nutrient. Thank you.

Hi Claudio,

According to the Danstar (makers of Nottingham) datasheet link I've attached the wort does not need to be aerated when using their dry ale yeast so that might not be the problem. The whole data sheet is great info, paragraph 4, "Usage" is a must read and although it might not provide an immediate answer of how to fix the stuck fermentation it could explain the "why" of the situation.

You probably just need to pitch another package if the gravity doesn't come down after rousing up the yeast. If you do pitch another I'd recommend closely following the directions in the Usage paragraph.

http://www.danstaryeast.com/sites/default/files/nottingham_datasheet.pdf


Saude!



Dan

 

[claudiobr74]

I believe that there was a great difference between the yeast and wort temperature. I'll try add more yeast at the right temperature and see what happen. Thank you everyone.

 

[Yooper]

I don't know if this has anything to do with your fermentables, but a 30 minute protein rest with Belgian pilsner malt is too long. Either skip it, or make it much shorter.

Your saccrification rest was a bit high at 68.9- is your thermometer accurate? Because if you actually hit a higher temperature, like 70, you may have caused many unfermentables in your wort so the beer will not ferment out as low as you had planned.

Next time, I'd skip the protein rest completely and use a lower temperature saccrification rest at 67.

Nottingham is usually a beast and will ferment quickly and easily down to 1.010 with that grain bill, if the mash temperature is 66-67.

 

[claudiobr74]

Hi Yooper,

Thank you for your tips. I'll try them in next time.

 

[Dan]

Yooper,

I plugged Claudio's recipe into BeerSmith and used his mash schedule, sort of. The only thing available was double infusion full body and the heat numbers match. Sounds as though Claudio initially used water to bring the mash to the protein rest temp then used a flame or heat stick to raise to saccharification and mash out temps followed by Fly sparging. BSII's water additions during those last two steps were wrong but the resulting temps were the same as his.

Sorry Claudio, I'm probably taking your thread I'm basically a newbie to all grain, maybe 15 batches, just starting to get consistent mash efficiencies, have even chucked BSII when it comes to mash efficiency, not because I don't believe in the program. It is great! Just tired of somebody else thinking for me so I found some simple formulas online that allowed me to input the grain bill, ideal extraction rate, first runnings..ect that I plugged into a crutch (excel). I'll move on from there to learn more, mash efficiency was just the simplest to understand.

Trying to get back on topic.

In regards to BSII, I plugged Cluadio's recipe in and with 80% efficiency the numbers came out to 1.075 and 1.018 which Claudio hit the first but latter is off a quite a bit.

Yoop, do you recommend generally skipping the protein rest with today's highly fermentable malts? Is it a thing of the past? When would you use it?

Thanks for the gifts of insight you give here Yooper!

Claudio, Saude!

 

[claudiobr74]

Hi Dan, I did it exactly like you said. I followed the BSII and the temperature control was quite good. I'm using PT100 temperature probes and they are very accurate. I believe my big mistakes happen at the wort temperature when I spargeg the yeast and ,of course, the protein rest. It was something like 104ºF.

 

[claudiobr74]

I was reading about yeast nutrition and found Servomyces. Do you believe that I can use it now in a attempt to save my beer?

 

[claudiobr74]

I don't know if this has anything to do with your fermentables, but a 30 minute protein rest with Belgian pilsner malt is too long. Either skip it, or make it much shorter.

Your saccrification rest was a bit high at 68.9- is your thermometer accurate? Because if you actually hit a higher temperature, like 70, you may have caused many unfermentables in your wort so the beer will not ferment out as low as you had planned.

Next time, I'd skip the protein rest completely and use a lower temperature saccrification rest at 67.

Nottingham is usually a beast and will ferment quickly and easily down to 1.010 with that grain bill, if the mash temperature is 66-67.

I was reading about yeast nutrition and found Servomyces. Do you believe that I can use it now in a attempt to save my beer?

 

[Yooper]

Yooper,

Yoop, do you recommend generally skipping the protein rest with today's highly fermentable malts? Is it a thing of the past? When would you use it?

Thanks for the gifts of insight you give here Yooper!

Claudio, Saude!

I don't often do a protein rest except for a few beers, but if I do one they need to be short. A too-long protein rest can ruin head retention. A short one can enhance head retention in less modified malts. They are rarely "needed" though.

If I do one, I generally do one at 133 degrees.

For specific info on why/how, here's a short but good read: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/The_Theory_of_Mashing

I was reading about yeast nutrition and found Servomyces. Do you believe that I can use it now in a attempt to save my beer?

I have no idea- I haven't ever used it. Sorry!

 

[Dan]

I've read that before earlier in this brewing hobby addiction. Makes a little more sense now. Thanks Yoop!