Saison Boulevard Smokestack Series Tank 7 Farmhouse Ale Clone

[ndak]

What is the reason for not using a yeast starter in this recipe? Thanks

 

[jsun]

What is the reason for not using a yeast starter in this recipe? Thanks

Some people (Jamil included) advocate underpitching yeasts for styles like ethis. In an American IPA, for example, underpitching might lead to off flavors from the yeast reproducing. But in some beers, including saisons, the yeast flavors actually define the style and are considered desirable.

 

[The10mmKid]

I was thinking of making a 6 gallon batch of this and splitting it into 2 3 gallon batches. I would pitch Belle Saison yeast into one fermenter to get something quite similar to Tank 7.

Anyone have thoughts on options for the 3 gallons? A blonde ale? A Belgian Golden Strong? Would the hops make this too fruity to do a Kolsch with?

I would do the entire 6 gallons with Belle Saison or you'll wish you did later.

I did a 5-gal batch with the same yeast and it was gone way too fast.

We cannot buy Tank 7 here, so I don't know what the Brett brings to the table.

'da Kid

 

[brewski09]

Is only in bottle conditioning so it's rather mild and accentuates the saison characteristics.

 

[AstoriaBrewSquad]

Subscribed

 

[jackwhite]

What is the reason behind using so much flaked corn? Does it add to the flavor profile or more to ferment out drier.

Also, when I calculate out Boulevards dry hopping rate for this beer I get something like 12.5 grams/5 gallons which seems like a pretty low dry hopping rate.

 

[kchomebrew]

As far as the yeast that's being used for Tank 7, I think it's fair to say it isn't the DuPont strain or 3711 (it tastes nothing like it). I would suspect is WLP 550 or something along those lines. Check out this article if you don't believe me:

http://kcbeerblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/boulevard-saison-brett-interview.html

"Certainly the yeast strain we use for our Belgian beers plays a huge part. We've really taken the time to learn what it's going to do under certain conditions and in different wort compositions so we're able to coax a wide range of flavors out of this one strain. We use the same yeast for Tank 7, Long Strange Tripel, the Sixth Glass, Harvest Dance, and Dark Truth."

 

[40watt]

Westmalle.

 

[acarter5251]

I got the following info from Boulevard about Tank 7:

Here is some information you may find helpful in your attempt to brew a beer similar to our Tank 7 Farmhouse Ale:

Malts
Pale Malt - 77.5%
Pregelatinized corn flakes - 20%
Malted Wheat - 2.5%

Mash in at 63 and rest for 50 minutes.
68 - 25 min
73- 15 min
Mash off at 78

We look for a beginning of boil gravity of 15.7 and boil for 70 minutes to look for 16.3 at the end of the boil.

Hops
Magnum - 6 IBU at 98 C
Simcoe - 5 IBU at 15
After beginning of boil Amarillo - 15.7 IBU at 5
Before end of boil Amarillo - 10.7 IBU in the whirlpool

We cool the wort to 19C and let it rise to 21C. We ferment at 21 until we reach 7 Plato at which point we temp up to 23 for the remainder of fermentation. Ending Plato is 2.2.

Dry Hopping
Amarillo .089 kg/bbl

The yeast we use for Tank 7 Farmhouse Ale is our house Belgian strain. For homebrewing purposes, we recommend Wyeast 3787 to approximate our house yeast character.

 

[COBrewMan72]

Not sure I'm understanding the hop schedule. Can you clarify?

 

[acarter5251]

Not sure I'm understanding the hop schedule. Can you clarify?

It's what they sent me. Pretty sure they mean

Magnum-70 min
Simcoe-15 min
Amarillo-5 min
Amarillo-Whirlpool

Dry hop with Amarillo

 

[Vamptrump]

So I took a shot brewing this last weekend, since I had to dump out my Berliner Weisse sour wort. I mostly did the same bill as the original post.

Grain (Mash @148):
10.5# 2-Row (64.3%)
4.5# White Wheat (27.6%)
.66# Flaked Wheat (4%)
.66# Flaked Corn (4%)

Hops (Got lazy and didn't have a scale, so all whole numbers):
1 oz Magnum - 60 min
1 oz Northern Brewer - 20 min (no Simcoe available)
1 oz Amarillo - 15 min
.5 oz Amarillo - Dry Hop (I'll have a scale this time, planned in a few days) - 5 day

Yeast:
2 Vials WLP670 American Farmhouse Blend (Couldn't do a starter as it was spur of the moment)

I greatly missed my target OG. Calculator said I should have had 1.088, and I got ~1.050. I did take a reading a little warm. I'm happy with the low OG though, as I would rather have it lower ABV anyway. Had issues where I boiled off way too much and had to top off 1.5 gallon and still under shot by half a gallon. It's what I get for having friends measure out my water while I was getting food. I'll post pictures later. Last time I checked it was fermenting strong.

 

[wysiwyg]

OK. Time to pitch in here:

Brewed the bad boy mid June, using the recipe given below. This recipe was derived from a few sources, but primarily from the Boulevard email posted somewhere in this thread.

This came out really close to Tank-7, although a little "hotter" since it finished at 9.1% ABV. Final gravity at 1.003. Should have stopped it at 1.006-1.008. I'll explain below.

5.5 gal batch. 70% overall efficiency.

12 lbs Belgian 2-Row (78%)
3 lbs Flaked Corn (20%)
6 oz White Wheat (3%)

2.3 AAU Magnum - 70 mins (.18 oz of 12.6%)
2.7 AAU Simcoe - 5 mins (.21 oz of 13%)
25.5 AAU Amarillo - 5 mins (3 oz of 8.5%)
25.5 AAU Amarillo - Whirlpool (3oz of 8.5%)
5.25 AAU Amarillo - Dry Hop 3 days (.5 oz of 8.5%)

Wyeast 3724 - Belgian Saison
Wyeast 3711 - French Saison

Mash
145 - 50 mins
155 - 25 mins
163 - 15 mins
168 - mashout 10 mins

Fermentation
- 1.5L starter of 3724 for 4 days at 70*. Dropped from OG=1.072 to 1.042.
- Added 1.5L starter of 3711 to primary
- Fermented 14 more days at 72-74*. Gravity dropped to 1.003 (!). Was still fermenting steadily when I cold-crashed it and fined it to stop fermentation. Racked to the keg and dry-hopped at room temp.

Note that I fermented very much on the cool side, because I wanted NO bubblegum flavor. As expected, the 3724 stalled out (or at least slowed way down) pretty quickly. I didn't really want to wait a month, or jack up the temp, so I added the 3711. As noted elsewhere, 3711 is an ungodly terror, and just tore through the proto-beer.

After a week or so of lagering in the keg, this was already drinking really well, if still a little green - but it definitely improves with some age. After a few more weeks, it was going fast, so I beer-gunned a couple of six packs, and have continued to sample it every couple of weeks since. I can definitely say that at 2-3 months, this was really close to Tank 7, and it continues to age wonderfully.

I've seen some recipes with a lot less late-boil Amarillo. I think this is a mistake. This beer really needs to lean heavily on the flavor/aroma of the Amarillo, so don't hold back here. I know the mash schedule is complex. I don't really know how much difference the 3-step mash makes, but I think it helps to do the long mash at 145* and then one in the high 150's. This helps to keep it super dry and tart, again reinforcing that Amarillo grapefruit bite.

The only thing I would change is to increase the dry hop to an ounce of Amarillo. Also, stop the fermentation a little sooner - closer to 1.010 than 1.001. Mine was a tad too dry.

This is a dangerously refreshing brew. I had it ready for the dog days of summer. You don't realize how much kick there is until you try to stand up after a pint or two.

Will try to post a picture later.

Boston Strong!

I'm making this exact recipe - thanks for sharing it! I like the simplicity of the grain bill and the idea of adding complexity through hops and multiple yeasts.

My OG came out at 1.066, probably because of an efficiency difference between our systems. The 3724 is still churning at 7 days, and SG 2 days ago was 1.044. I know it's been awhile since you made this, but do you remember if you waited for the 3724 to completely stall out before adding the 3711 or did you just pitch it at 4 days?

Thanks!

 

[Vamptrump]

Follow up:

I just bottled my batch on Saturday. Didn't have time to dry hop, but after bottling I don't miss it. Came out to a FG of 1.008 vs. my OG of ~1.050. Tasted really nice and clean, and was very clear. Waiting for bottle conditioning to finish so I can take a nice picture and taste it finished.

 

[cuda6pak]

So for those that have brewed this one or multiple times - what's the consensus on yeast to use to make it as close to tank 7 as possible - 670, 3711, 575, 3724, 3726?

 

[Vamptrump]

Definitely not 670. That batch I have now has been compared closer to Saison DuPont than Tank 7 because of the Brett in 670. Not mad about that comparison at all though.

 

[mrkstel]

I'm brewing a version of this recipe this weekend and using WY3787, since it was recommended by BLVD. In order to get the Tank 7 farmhouse funk from this yeast, I'm thinking about pitching at a lower rate and fermenting warm, around 80 deg F. Is this a good approach? Am I on the right track? Any suggestions? What rates/temps have others tried with this yeast and how did they turn out?

 

[Schumed]

I'm brewing a version of this recipe this weekend and using WY3787, since it was recommended by BLVD. In order to get the Tank 7 farmhouse funk from this yeast, I'm thinking about pitching at a lower rate and fermenting warm, around 80 deg F. Is this a good approach? Am I on the right track? Any suggestions? What rates/temps have others tried with this yeast and how did they turn out?

To be honest I don't think Tank 7 is all that funky ...just ferment normal ...and concentrate on the aggressive Amarillo hopping

 

[cuda6pak]

My batch is currently fermenting away. Slightly underpitched WLP550 @65* and fermented for 4 days @ 69* and am slowly ramping up 1-1.5* every day until 75*.

 

[COBrewMan72]

To be honest I don't think Tank 7 is all that funky ...just ferment normal ...and concentrate on the aggressive Amarillo hopping

Agreed. That dry hop Amarillo flavor is what really makes tank 7. I think 3787 is a good choice. Let us know how it turns out

 

[mrkstel]

To be honest I don't think Tank 7 is all that funky ...just ferment normal ...and concentrate on the aggressive Amarillo hopping

Huh...I've always attributed the citrusy/spicy flavor of T7 to the yeast (perhaps "funk" was the wrong word). But after reading Schumed's reply I tried it again and he's right. The yeast flavor is just standard Belgian. It must be the Amarillo that gives T7 those flavors. Thanks for setting me straight. I'll be fermenting this one normally and will post the results in about a month.

 

[IslandLizard]

I've been eyeing to brew this Tank 7 for a while already, and tomorrow is the day.

I've had this beer on a few occasions, and it was yummy, outstanding! But the last time, a few months back, I was not very impressed at all, and a few people I talked to weren't either. It was disappointing, something was very lacking and it was way too sweet. Maybe just a bad batch. However the Brett Saison that was also on tap, made up for it, 10x. It will take a long time to ferment that, so planning it for later this year.

When looking at the Tank 7 recipes here in this thread, and others that are posted around the web (e.g., BeerSmith) I noticed a few differences and have a few questions.

It looks as if the claimed grain percentages have changed quite a bit over time.

Original post:
64% Pale Malt (2 Row)
4% Flaked Corn
28% Wheat Malt
4% Flaked Wheat

Answer from the brewery after an inquiry:
70% Pale Malt
20% Corn
10% Wheat malt

Then later, through another correspondence with the brewery:
77.5% Pale Malt
20% Corn flakes
2.5% Malted Wheat

The website doesn't list the percentages, and I'm leaning toward the 2nd one, 70/20/10, with a good dose of corn adjunct (20%) and some wheat (10%). A few other recipes I found seem to agree on those percentages.

The first one (original post) includes 30% wheat, which has a lot of charm, but sounds over the top. The Tank 7 I had did not taste that wheaty. The last one looks totally different, almost all the wheat has been replaced by Pale.

Can anyone who brewed this beer shine some light on these different recipes and why you chose a particular one over the others. How did it turn out?

 

[The10mmKid]

Here's one more for 'ya:

67% 2-row
20% Flake corn
10% Pale wheat malt
3% Flaked wheat

PC-3726 Farmhouse Ale yeast

It was a beautiful beer. Need to make another batch.

'da Kid

 

[IslandLizard]

Here's one more for 'ya:

67% 2-row
20% Flake corn
10% Pale wheat malt
3% Flaked wheat

PC-3726 Farmhouse Ale yeast

It was a beautiful beer. Need to make another batch.

'da Kid

Thanks for your reply, formulating the final recipe now.

Looks like another endorsement for the 70/20/10 composition with some flaked wheat added for haziness and a hint of raw wheat flavor. That would be a nice touch.

The hop schedules posted are all over the place too.
Going by the brewery's guidelines that were posted here, getting the IBUs they specify it comes up with a huge Amarillo addition at 5'. And another big one in the whirlpool.

The recipe as formulated by @Schumed and his side by side taste test seem to have the most merit, and corresponds closely to what BS calculated for me.

Based on a 75 minute boil:
Magnum (12.5 %AA) 4.9 gr - 6.4 IBU FWH
Simcoe (12.7 %AA) 5.6 gr - 7.1 IBU 60'
Amarillo (8.7 %AA) 80.5 gr - 14.0 IBU 5'
Amarillo (8.7 %AA) 55.0 gr - 9.6 IBU 0' - Whirlpool 190°F 30' (IBUs calculated as a 5' addition)

What hop schedule did you use?

Oh, forgot to mention, the yeast will be ECY Saison Brasserie Blend (ECY08).
I'll probably brew a Brett version right after this.

 

[The10mmKid]

I went with:

60min boil
0.25oz Magnum (13.0AA) @FWH - 14.1 IBU

0.50oz Simcoe (12.7AA) @15min - 12.3 IBU
0.50oz Centennial (10.5AA) @15min - 9.9IBU

1.0oz Amarillo (9.5AA) 7-day Dry Hop - 0.0 IBU

Also:
I used a 'stepped mash'
45min @150°
15min @158°
15min mash out @167°

It's pretty easy using boiling water to raise the temp. I have +2 gallons boiling and use as needed for the steps.

for my mash it was:
~3qts for the 150° → 158°
~3qts for the 158° → 167°

leaves about 3.5gal for the sparge

'da Kid

This is the recipe on BeerSmith that I started with:
http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/12543/tank-7

 

[IslandLizard]

@The10mmKid. Thanks for the step mash pointers and hop schedule. Because I ended up with a thin mash, boiling water additions were not going to make a dent. I scooped out 5 gallon portions of the mash (like one would do for decoctions) and heating those quickly and dump back in to increase the step temps. A bit messy, but worked great and I've become an expert at it. A RIMS tube is starting to make sense...

OK, brew went well yesterday, although had a much later start due to an issue that needed dealing with before milling. Followed the 70/30/10 original grain bill Boulevard had conveyed, posted early in this thread, and was brewed and taste tested by @Schumed. I actually forgot to add the alternative 3% flaked wheat, which must be mainly for a cloudy appearance, so this one will be clear. Make note to self: include last minute items in the recipe before printing!

9.6 lb 2-Row 70%
2.75 lb Flaked Corn 20%
1.4 lb Wheat Malt 10%

Milled the flaked corn very fine, felt like grits, and thus decided to cook them first for better gelatinization. Took almost 5 gallons of water to boil 2.75lbs of corn, and it resembled a thin polenta. It tasted slightly salty, unsure why, but not a lot, so it may help with flavor perception. Boiled for about 30 minutes, added cold water and dumped in the mash tun. 5.7 gallons of "strike water" for a 5.5 gallon batch! New "water"/grain ratio before adding the 2-Row and Wheat Malt: 1.9, nice and thin, I start to like those.

Added my usual amounts of 2 tsp Phosphoric acid (42.5%), 2 tsp CaSO4 and 1 tsp CaCl2 split over the strike and sparge waters. Forgot to take a pH reading of the mash. Would have been handy, as I have no clue what the flaked corn contributed, it may be alkaline... :smack:

Step mash:
145F 50'
154F 25'
163F 15'
No mash out

2 batch sparges and 7 gallons of amazingly clear wort in the kettle. Pre-boil OG: 1.059, right on the button, good conversion from the corn, that's important.

75 minute boil:
Magnum (12.5 %AA) 4.9 gr (0.17 oz) - 6.4 IBU FWH
Simcoe (12.7 %AA) 5.6 gr (0.2 oz) - 7.1 IBU 60'
Amarillo (8.7 %AA) 80.5 gr (2.8 oz) - 14.0 IBU 5'
Amarillo (8.7 %AA) 55.0 gr (2 oz) - 9.6 IBU 0' - Whirlpool 200 => 190°F 30' (IBUs calculated as a 5' addition)
Simcoe (12.7 %AA) 10.0 gr (0.35 oz) - 2.5 IBU 0' - Whirlpool 200 => 190°F 30' (IBUs calculated as a 5' addition)

Total calculated IBU: 39.6

Since I've had severe filter clogging issues preventing whirlpooling and efficient chilling, I decided to use large, weighted down, fine mesh hop bags to contain the hop pellets. The Magnum was leaf, so it swam freely.

OG 1.069, little lower than the expected 1.071, but close enough. 5.3 gallons in the bucket fermentor with a large starter of ECY08, Saison Brasserie Blend. Sitting at 75°F waiting for the magic to happen.

The sweet wort has a wonderful aroma and tastes very promising! There's a definite and smooth bitterness.

 

[Schumed]

Thanks for your reply, formulating the final recipe now.

Looks like another endorsement for the 70/20/10 composition with some flaked wheat added for haziness and a hint of raw wheat flavor. That would be a nice touch.

The hop schedules posted are all over the place too.
Going by the brewery's guidelines that were posted here, getting the IBUs they specify it comes up with a huge Amarillo addition at 5'. And another big one in the whirlpool.

The recipe as formulated by @Schumed and his side by side taste test seem to have the most merit, and corresponds closely to what BS calculated for me.

Based on a 75 minute boil:
Magnum (12.5 %AA) 4.9 gr - 6.4 IBU FWH
Simcoe (12.7 %AA) 5.6 gr - 7.1 IBU 60'
Amarillo (8.7 %AA) 80.5 gr - 14.0 IBU 5'
Amarillo (8.7 %AA) 55.0 gr - 9.6 IBU 0' - Whirlpool 190°F 30' (IBUs calculated as a 5' addition)

What hop schedule did you use?

Oh, forgot to mention, the yeast will be ECY Saison Brasserie Blend (ECY08).
I'll probably brew a Brett version right after this.

looks good

 

[cuda6pak]

Kegged my attempt yesterday. Finished at 1.012 with WLP550 from 1.071 OG. Tasted great out of primary, looking forward to this one.

 

[40watt]

A recent experience has taught me that the bottle dregs in Saison Brett are quite vibrant and viable.
Didn't even grow them up.
Pour dregs in 5 gallons of Saison. Boom.

 

[Schumed]

A recent experience has taught me that the bottle dregs in Saison Brett are quite vibrant and viable.
Didn't even grow them up.
Pour dregs in 5 gallons of Saison. Boom.

Confirmed