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Cheesefood

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Here's what I did when I bottled:

I put all the bottles in my dishwasher and ran it on hot with no soap. This cleaned and sanitized them.

Then I pulled a chair up next to my dishwasher, opened the door and used it as a bottling platform. Pull a bottle out from the rack, bottle it on the dishwasher door, cap it and put it in the box. Repeat 45 times.

This is a No-Mess way of bottling. All the spilled beer stays trapped on the dishwasher door. I set the cane on the door while I capped (since the door was obviously pretty clean) and got everything finished in about a half-hour. When I was done I simply loaded up the dishwasher with all the stuff I had just used (sieves, ladel, glasses, etc) closed the door and ran it again. Voila. No sticky mess everywhere.
 

homebrewer_99

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I know we are all trying to find that one "no argument" way of doing something, but the way I see a dishwasher is that water does not enter all the bottles let alone clean the insides. :(

Keep up the good work. :D
 

uglygoat

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i think it's the heat from the dry cycle the santizes the bottles in the dishwasher, not the hot water, which can't get any hotter than the what's in the tank.
 
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Cheesefood

Cheesefood

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Our water in our tank is HOT. While I haven't temp'd it, I know that if I run my sink on high-heat, it's way past scalding hot. Huge plumes of steam are constant. Our H2O heater is just over a year old.

Still, whether or not the DW cleans the bottles, bottling over the dishwasher door makes for a no-hassle clean-up. And it's low enough where you maintain good pressure from your bottling tank.
 

Rhoobarb

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Hey Cheesefood! I work in Schaumburg! Your method is exactly the way I do it, right down to the dishwasher door trick. In fact, I'll be doing it again this weekend!

I still soak grungy bottles in a weak bleach solution, then rinse and stick in the dishwasher. But I've found that if you thoroughly rinse your bottles in hot water immedialtely after your pour, then a soak is not needed. A simple run in a soapless dishwasher will suffice!

Just my experience; YMMV!
 

Dark_Ale

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Cheesefood said:
Our water in our tank is HOT. While I haven't temp'd it, I know that if I run my sink on high-heat, it's way past scalding hot. Huge plumes of steam are constant. Our H2O heater is just over a year old.

Still, whether or not the DW cleans the bottles, bottling over the dishwasher door makes for a no-hassle clean-up. And it's low enough where you maintain good pressure from your bottling tank.
Sounds good to me
 

patrck17

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I hope my apartment has a dishwasher, that is the one I am moving into in early August. I think it does but I can't remember, it has been a few months since I did a tour.
 
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Cheesefood

Cheesefood

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Rhoobarb said:
Hey Cheesefood! I work in Schaumburg! Your method is exactly the way I do it, right down to the dishwasher door trick. In fact, I'll be doing it again this weekend!

I still soak grungy bottles in a weak bleach solution, then rinse and stick in the dishwasher. But I've found that if you thoroughly rinse your bottles in hot water immedialtely after your pour, then a soak is not needed. A simple run in a soapless dishwasher will suffice!

Just my experience; YMMV!
Where in Schaumburg? I live on Schaumburg and Meacham.
 
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Cheesefood

Cheesefood

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Sudster said:
Hey , would an oven door work the same way? :D
Sure, if you want wort in your oven. Might make your next pot roast smell especially yummy.
 

bikebryan

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Cheesefood said:
Here's what I did when I bottled:

I put all the bottles in my dishwasher and ran it on hot with no soap. This cleaned and sanitized them.

Then I pulled a chair up next to my dishwasher, opened the door and used it as a bottling platform. Pull a bottle out from the rack, bottle it on the dishwasher door, cap it and put it in the box. Repeat 45 times.

This is a No-Mess way of bottling. All the spilled beer stays trapped on the dishwasher door. I set the cane on the door while I capped (since the door was obviously pretty clean) and got everything finished in about a half-hour. When I was done I simply loaded up the dishwasher with all the stuff I had just used (sieves, ladel, glasses, etc) closed the door and ran it again. Voila. No sticky mess everywhere.
Dishwashers - home models - should NOT be depended on to really and truly sanitize bottles. While it is true that industrial dishwashers do sanitize, they mainly rely on pressurized steam to do so, and you don't have the luxury of that at home. The dry cycle on a home dishwasher doesn't reach a hot enough point to "steam" the water well enough. Add to that the fact that bottle design prevents a stream of water from coating the entire inside of the bottle - well, you are taking the path of least resistance, but not a path of good sanitation.
 

heLLbent

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Sudster said:
Hey , would an oven door work the same way? :D
I use the oven and bake my bottles at 350f for an hr or till I remember to shut it off.

Started out rinsing them with iodophor then using the dry cycle in the dishwasher, but had carbonation problems a couple times and heard about baking the bottles from another Hb, so now when the (dry) rinsed empties begin to pile up I tear off little chunks of tin foil, cover the mouth's of the bottles and bake them, I can fit 2 cases stacking them on there sides like firewood, then I cycle between broil element and bottom (bake) element till the oven hits 200f then set the temp at bake 350f and walk away, after an hr or more I turn the oven off and let them cool (without opening the door) gradually, and when they are cool I toss em back in the boxes and all I gotta do bottling day is pull the foil of and fill em one by one.

I also have a designated chair :D , and I use my 20 quart kettle for a catch pan, cheers.
 

bikebryan

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heLLbent said:
I use the oven and bake my bottles at 350f for an hr or till I remember to shut it off.

Started out rinsing them with iodophor then using the dry cycle in the dishwasher, but had carbonation problems a couple times and heard about baking the bottles from another Hb, so now when the (dry) rinsed empties begin to pile up I tear off little chunks of tin foil, cover the mouth's of the bottles and bake them, I can fit 2 cases stacking them on there sides like firewood, then I cycle between broil element and bottom (bake) element till the oven hits 200f then set the temp at bake 350f and walk away, after an hr or more I turn the oven off and let them cool (without opening the door) gradually, and when they are cool I toss em back in the boxes and all I gotta do bottling day is pull the foil of and fill em one by one.

I also have a designated chair :D , and I use my 20 quart kettle for a catch pan, cheers.
OK, you use the oven. How does this help with carbonation problems? A huge number of home brewers use liquid sanitizers (be it iodophor, star-san, bleach, or whatever) and have zero carbonation problems. I doubt seriously it's the iodophor that caused your problems but regardless, how does baking bottles help with carbonation?
 

heLLbent

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Actually I have read several times in forums where home brewers had problems with un-even bottle carbonation, and one of the guys even pondered the thought that perhaps it had to do with the sanitizing solution left in the bottles.

Personally I have only had flat beers once, and finally after 6 weeks close to 80% of them finally carbonated.

The last time I used the dishwasher I had gushers, and while I didnt pinpoint the cause,I ditched the bottling bucket (probably the culprit), hoses, and started using the oven,
I had planned on switching anyway due to the fact the wash cycle does nothing for the inside of the bottles, and the dry cycle most likely isnt doing the job either, by the time the moisture finally evaporates from the inside of the bottle, the cycle is done.

When I started baking the bottles I was amazed at the occasional brown spots (bacteria harboring stains) I found in some of the corona (clear glass) bottles that I had thought were perfectly clean.

It is just like everything else, everyone has there preferance, I just would prefer to sterilize over sanitizing, I like my beer :D

Cheers
 

bikebryan

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heLLbent said:
Actually I have read several times in forums where home brewers had problems with un-even bottle carbonation, and one of the guys even pondered the thought that perhaps it had to do with the sanitizing solution left in the bottles.

Personally I have only had flat beers once, and finally after 6 weeks close to 80% of them finally carbonated.

The last time I used the dishwasher I had gushers, and while I didnt pinpoint the cause,I ditched the bottling bucket (probably the culprit), hoses, and started using the oven,
I had planned on switching anyway due to the fact the wash cycle does nothing for the inside of the bottles, and the dry cycle most likely isnt doing the job either, by the time the moisture finally evaporates from the inside of the bottle, the cycle is done.

When I started baking the bottles I was amazed at the occasional brown spots (bacteria harboring stains) I found in some of the corona (clear glass) bottles that I had thought were perfectly clean.

It is just like everything else, everyone has there preferance, I just would prefer to sterilize over sanitizing, I like my beer :D

Cheers
If it works for you, great!

One note though: I wouldn't say your oven "sterilizes" your bottles. If dry heat did that, then commerical sterilizers would cost lots less. It's not just heat that sterilizes - it's also some air circulation, and in commercial autoclaves, a wet system of pressurized steam. It's this pressurized steam coating everything and circulating throughout the autoclave, that sterilizes. It's also the need for steam that drives up the cost. Trust me, if hospitals could get by with just "baking" their stuff, they would. It would be much cheaper and easier than autoclaving. Unfortunately, it doesn't produce sterile results.
 

Rhoobarb

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brewhead said:
baking your bottles??? are you guys serious sheesh.


:D I think it would make a good name for a rock band. The Baking Bottles. Or maybe Baked Bottles. Or maybe The Bottle Bakers.
 

Dienekles

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Heat is the only True method of complete sterilization for the homebrewer. The bottles can be completely *sterilized (not nessissarly clean, but all living organisms will die) by baking them in the oven on 338 degrees for 60 minutes.

Now when actually bottling - from all the experiencd homebrewers I've queried about this topic, they collectively have this to say:

Do not immediately cap your bottles after bottling - fill them all up in order and then cap them in that same order. This seems counter intuitive "Dont I risk oxidizing (to make stale) or contaminating my beer??"

No, the yeast will produce carbon dioxide which is heavier than air - filling the neck of the bottle - this will prevent oxidation in the subsequent aging of the bottles. Also the beer at this point has very little chance of being infected with anything because of its alchohol content of 6% + or - 2% and the favorable growing conditions that you have so gratiously supplied for the remaining yeast.
 

Dienekles

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Also, forget the bottling bucket - you introduce more oxygen into your beer this way.

Siphon diretly out of the secondary it saves a step and produces a crisper, fresher product.
 

tnlandsailor

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Dienekles said:
Also, forget the bottling bucket - you introduce more oxygen into your beer this way.

Siphon diretly out of the secondary it saves a step and produces a crisper, fresher product.
How do you mix the priming solution thoroughly if you bottle directly from the primary? Unless you use Primetabs, you will stir up all the trub that has settled out. I must admit, I haven't bottled in 5 years (hail kegging), but I've heard mixed results from using Primetabs.
 

Dienekles

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tnlandsailor said:
How do you mix the priming solution thoroughly if you bottle directly from the primary?
Mix the priming solution into the beer, stir with racking cane 10 times in the same direction.

After 30 min - 2h (depending on the gravity of your beer) the trub will settle back to the bottom of the carboy.

Bottle!

This is the way I was taught by my father, who was taught by his father, ect.
 

vtfan99

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Dienekles said:
Mix the priming solution into the beer, stir with racking cane 10 times in the same direction.

After 30 min - 2h (depending on the gravity of your beer) the trub will settle back to the bottom of the carboy.

Bottle!

This is the way I was taught by my father, who was taught by his father, ect.
I'm not sure how I understand how stirring your wort introduces less oxygen than siphoning. When I used to bottle, I siphoned from the secondary to the bottling bucket (on top of the priming solution). The siphon hose sat on the bottom of the bucket so the flow was smooth. The "current" caused by the siphon served to completely dissolve the priming solution in the beer. No stirring required...and no oxygen introduced....and no "trub resettling" to wait for.

Having said all that...its been a while since I've bottled. Kegging is the only true solution :D
 

bikebryan

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Dienekles said:
Heat is the only True method of complete sterilization for the homebrewer. The bottles can be completely *sterilized (not nessissarly clean, but all living organisms will die) by baking them in the oven on 338 degrees for 60 minutes.

Now when actually bottling - from all the experiencd homebrewers I've queried about this topic, they collectively have this to say:

Do not immediately cap your bottles after bottling - fill them all up in order and then cap them in that same order. This seems counter intuitive "Dont I risk oxidizing (to make stale) or contaminating my beer??"

No, the yeast will produce carbon dioxide which is heavier than air - filling the neck of the bottle - this will prevent oxidation in the subsequent aging of the bottles. Also the beer at this point has very little chance of being infected with anything because of its alchohol content of 6% + or - 2% and the favorable growing conditions that you have so gratiously supplied for the remaining yeast.
???

Where are you getting this "338 degrees for 60 minutes" figure from? And how, exactly, do you figure this will guarantee sterility?

Next: The yeast will produce CO2 in the bottle, this is true, but I seriously doubt it will produce enough during the bottling process to drive out the room air. Of course, if you take a couple of days to do your bottling, this may be true, but it only takes me about 45 minutes to bottle on the few occasions I do.
 

Dienekles

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Well that number 338 degrees for 60 minutes came from the book 'How to Brew'

The bottling tip came from the owner of The San Fransisco Homebrew Outlet. Hes been brewing and bottling and judging competitions for several decades.
 

Dienekles

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Having said all that...its been a while since I've bottled. Kegging is the only true solution :D[/QUOTE]

Amen brother! Cant wiat until I can afford that.

Until then - I float CO2 on my secondary by siphoning it off the primary and I use a carboy cap to keep oxygen out of my brew while I bottle, so the only oygen that gets into my beer is the small unavoidable amounts from pouring in the bottling sugar slurry, and the small amounts that get in when I actually bottle.

Stirring does not introduce oxygen into the beer if there is no oxygen floating on the beer. :cool: Right?

I've never opened a bottle and found it flat or stale - BUT I CANT WAIT TO KEG!
 

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I set the caps on each brew as I go then crimp in the same order they were filled, that way particles can't fall in while your bottling the rest (Im sure Im wrong about this as well) :rolleyes:
 

Dienekles

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heLLbent said:
I set the caps on each brew as I go then crimp in the same order they were filled, that way particles can't fall in while your bottling the rest (Im sure Im wrong about this as well) :rolleyes:
Nono, this is a fantastic way to do things. Though at this point (with 4-10% alchohol) there isnt a whole lot to worry about - very few things can spoil your beer at this point.

But putting the caps in place will save you time - no doubt a good idea.
 

cygnus128

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I actually cap as I go...is that a problem? I figured it would lower the contamination risk (not that there is too much but never hurts). Any problems with this?
 

Dienekles

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Nono, no problem with that, but unless your using oxygen absorbing caps you may have long term storage problems associated with staling agents..

But if you plan on drinking it all within the next two months or so, I wouldnt worry about it.

Coming from very reliable sources (namely the owner of a homebrew supply shop whos been brewing for decades):

and I quote: "The beer is not very susceptable to contamination at this point, oxygen is a bigger problem at this stage than foreign bacteria."
 

cygnus128

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Dienekles said:
Nono, no problem with that, but unless your using oxygen absorbing caps you may have long term storage problems associated with staling agents..

But if you plan on drinking it all within the next two months or so, I wouldnt worry about it.

Coming from very reliable sources (namely the owner of a homebrew supply shop whos been brewing for decades):

and I quote: "The beer is not very susceptable to contamination at this point, oxygen is a bigger problem at this stage than foreign bacteria."
Thanks! There's no chance it will make it 2 months anyway ;).
 

andre the giant

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I haven't had any problems keeping my brew fresh for longer than 2 months. I use O2 absorbing caps, try to avoid splashing the brew around when racking/bottling, etc. One important note, if you use a spring bottle filler tip, it seems the first second or so of the beer entering the bottle splashes pretty good. Once the level of the beer reaches the holes in the filler tip, it settles down. This probably isn't good, but on the other hand, maybe it is good. I have several theories about this that I'll share with you.

1. The initial splash in the bottle releases dissolved CO2 from the beer. I'm sure some O2 gets in there too, but the O2 caps should get it.
2. The initial splashing creates a bit of foam. This foam helps expel air from the bottle. When you cap the bottle, and foam is filling the dead space, you probably have very little O2 to deal with.

I've had bottles that tasted fresh after 1 year in the bottle. Heck, I've drank Oatmeal Stouts brewed 1 year apart that tasted virtually the same.

Kegging is a very nice way to dispense beer, and eventually, I'll start kegging. But I don't think I'll ever get entirely away from bottling. I envision kegging half, and bottling the rest.
 

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there is something appealing about having a bottle of year old beer. i'll never keg it all cause i'll end up killing my self drinking a keg in a night plus i like to have bottles of beer aging in my old cellar, the bottles look cool next to the brick wall...
 
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