bottle conditioned v bulk conditioning

[BOBTHEukBREWER]

Is there really a detectable difference between bottling as soon as FG constant - which is 4 to 7 days for me - or leaving 2 weeks in primary and 2-3 weeks in secondary before bottling?

 

[Malticulous]

I like to get my beer packaged as soon as I can. It can age in the packaging if need be. I found good fermentation practice and a few tricks are better than any amount of aging.

 

[daksin]

I don't know, I put a lot of stock in aging. My question is: is it better to age in bulk or in bottles? Would it be better to skip a secondary for aging, or to give it some time in secondary before bottle aging?

 

[Malticulous]

I like the bottles. I bottle most ales at 10-14 days. Often its gone before its five weeks old. Most are loosing there edge if they are around for eight weeks or more.

 

[DaDzBrewery]

I don't know, I put a lot of stock in aging. My question is: is it better to age in bulk or in bottles? Would it be better to skip a secondary for aging, or to give it some time in secondary before bottle aging?

I'd say it depends. If you want a clearer beer than bulk aging is best, if it's a dark or wheat that does matter much on clarity then, primary and bottle condiditoning is good..

 

[BigB]

Is there really a detectable difference between bottling as soon as FG constant - which is 4 to 7 days for me - or leaving 2 weeks in primary and 2-3 weeks in secondary before bottling?

That is a decision you need to make for yourself. Personally I find a marked difference between a beer that is rushed off the yeast and one that is allowed to condition. Many studies have been done on the subject and the consensus is that yeast are not done with their lifecycle within 7 days. Just because the yeast are no longer consuming sugars (hence a steady gravity reading) doesn't mean they aren't cleaning up by-products that potentially have off flavors. If you rush a beer into a bottle with new priming sugar, the yeast will discontinue cleaning up and go after the easily consumed sugars that were just added. Plus, adding to the mix, you stick em in a sealed environment which adds stress to yeast.

Further, I have built up enough of a pipeline that I see drastic improvements to my beers after several weeks. Any beer I have ever had that is 2-3 weeks old is way to green and IMHO, frankly undrinkable.

 

[daksin]

I always do a long(ish) primary of 3-4 weeks. I was just wondering if after that it makes a difference going to a secondary vs bottles.

 

[Malticulous]

I believe when the yeast are going dormant they are done. So do the pros. Some serve RIS in weeks.

Found a nice quote,

With the right pitching rate, using fresh healthy yeast, and proper aeration of the wort prior to pitching, the fermentation of the beer will be complete within 3-8 days (bigger = longer). This time period includes the secondary or conditioning phase of fermentation when the yeast clean up acetaldehyde and diacetyl.

And he is speaking about lagers too.

 

[kcpup]

I always do a long(ish) primary of 3-4 weeks. I was just wondering if after that it makes a difference going to a secondary vs bottles.

In my experience it depends on the beer style. Wits are made to drink young. I leave them on yeast for 2-3 weeks, keg, carb and enjoy. My low gravity APA I do similar 2 weeks, dry hop 1 week, keg carb and enjoy (it's about 4.5%abv).

I brewed a tripel this summer. I had it on the yeast for 6 weeks and kegged. It is still bulk aging. I'll bottle it next month for Christmas presents.

For me it depends on the style.

 

[BigB]

I believe when the yeast are going dormant they are done. So do the pros. Some serve RIS in weeks.

Found a nice quote,


And he is speaking about lagers too.

Interesting little quote considering he contradicts himself in howtobrew Chapter 8 http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-2.html Further, I trust the lab guys before I would trust John Palmer, although the lab guys seem to correlate mostly to his discussion in Chapter 8.
http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_techinfo.cfm

 

[Tinga]

I think one factor to use to determine bulk vs bottle conditioning is that bulk aging will provide a consistent product more so than bottle conditioning.

 

[TheMan]

I think one factor to use to determine bulk vs bottle conditioning is that bulk aging will provide a consistent product more so than bottle conditioning.

This is the one argument that I have heard. Bulk will give more consistency. However, I really only think the bulk aging is needed for high gravity beers. Lower gravity can age in the bottle with smaller bottle to bottle discrepency. IMO

Also...BigB...Your link to the wyeast site didn't help you and doesn't agree with Palmer's Chapter 8. They specifically state this:

"Conditioning

The conditioning stage takes place when the terminal gravity has been reached and the tank is cooled to refrigeration temperatures (31°F - 38°F, 0°C - 3°C). During this time the yeast continues to flocculate and settle. The yeast also conditions the beer by reducing various undesirable flavor compounds. Ales do not benefit from long conditioning times like lagers do. The desirable flavors in ales will decrease with age and therefore it is recommended that conditioning be as short as possible before packaging. Exposure to oxygen at this stage is extremely detrimental to beer quality.
"

Looks like the Lab guys say the shorter the better on bulk conditioning (for ales at least). So therefore bottling sooner than later is better.

 

[BigB]

Actually, you misunderstood what my rebuttal was to. The other poster claimed that everything is done in 3-8 days. My point was that information is specifically inaccurate. Further, the Wyeast section you quoted is talking about the third stage of fermentation, specifically "conditioning." You are ignoring the entire picture and time frame of fermentation by focusing on the final section. Finally, the lab guys state, and I agree, that ales do not need the long conditioning times like lagers do, but that is not to say you rush your beer from grain to bottle in 4-7 days as the OP originally inquired about. And it certainly doesn't say you don't need any conditioning time. Would I say four weeks of conditioning time, post primary and secondary fermentation stages(meaning appx 6 weeks total),like a lager? Certainly not. Would I say leave an ale on the yeast cake for 3 weeks before bottling (meaning 2 weeks for primary and secondary stages plus one week conditioning), absolutely. So, I think if you carefully read both the Chapter 8 of How To Brew and the Wyeast technical information, I think you might understand that I am correct.

 

[Malticulous]

I often cold cash and maybe fine in secondary at 7 to 10 days. Boot them yeasties out. That makes my beer taste better. It does not leave off flavors. If I crash at day seven, bottle on day 10 it can be carbed and bright on day 14.

The conditioning phase is more the dropping of yeast and protein, not yeast eating up off flavors (that would not be there of it was fermented well anyway.)

 

[BOBTHEukBREWER]

I sometimes bottle without priming sugar so the yeast should just carry on regardless....

 

[RogueVassar]

Is there really a detectable difference between bottling as soon as FG constant - which is 4 to 7 days for me - or leaving 2 weeks in primary and 2-3 weeks in secondary before bottling?

From my experience, I definitely notice a difference from bottling (or kegging) after one week compared to after two or more. After two weeks, I think that you can age it either way and agree with some above that the style will dictate when it is best consumed. If you don't need the fermentor for your next batch, I'd just let it sit for a while.

This wasn't asked, but I also only secondary if I plan on reusing the yeast AND I plan to dry hop.

 

[chickens4life]

I really depends on the beer (not just the style but the batch as well) with healthy yeast and a lower OG wort I see a stable final gravity by day 4-5 normally. then i just wait for the yeast to mostly drop out of solution so that i don't have excessive amounts of trub in my bottles, then i bottle it all, with out cold crashing this is about 10-14 days. For wits or any other beer that does not need to be clear I bottle as soon as it reaches final gravity which can be as early as day 5.

In my experiance if I let an ale that had an OG of 1040-1055 sit longer than a couple of weeks, especially if it has a lot of late hop or malt flavors, it is much more bland and boring by the time I am drinking it than one that was bottled sooner.