Bootleg biology ARL

[madscientistbrewNq]

So I got yeast in Feb that was manufactured in December. I was brewing a cold IPA so planned to ferment in the 60s. I opted to do a 2 liter starter and left on the stir plate for probably four days. I pitched the started after decanting maybe 0.5 liters. Fermentation started within 12 hrs. Im at day four and have stopped fermenting more or less. Tilt went from 1.066 to 1.046 and is sitting there now for 12 hrs and krausen is subsiding. In 12 years never had an incomplete fermentation. Supplied nutrients at the end of boil and hit with 1 min of pure O2. What's the collective think? I ordered another vial to pitch. I did bump ferm temp yesterday from 61 to 63 and moved to 65 this morning.

Even the starter did not look very robust when I had it on the stir plate and this yeast was suppose to be a big attenuator. I mashed at 153. Ph post whirlpool was 5.2 so everything looked good imo! When I receive the yeast I thought about doing a 1 liter starter to make sure yeast will not be an issue given my current situation.

Would someone opt for a different yest all together maybe 34/70?

 

[day_trippr]

Take a manual gravity check...

Cheers!

 

[eliastheodosis]

In my experience ARL is a bit of a fickle beast, being a wild yeast and all. It didn't want to start in the mid 50s for me but then took off with a roar when I nudged it up a few degrees. It's mostly been pretty aggressive for me at the temps you mention. Despite being pretty aggressive and a big attenuator it never actually had the looks to match. Light krausen and maybe moderate wort activity. It's no kveik in that regard

Agreed with @day_trippr. Take a manual sample and get back to us. I would guess that it's more likely to be done than stuck that high.

If it IS stuck that high then I would bail out, pitch a different yeast, and use that next vial for another batch. The couple times it went weird on me it seemed to just make up it's mind and there was no changing it. Jeff even basically throws his hands up in the yeast description and says "it's wild, you get what you get" It's a great yeast, though. A little temperamental but it'll make you some tasty beer if you give it another chance.

And it definitely can be a big attenuator. I think my latest batch was something stupid like 95%. Others report in the mid 70% so, again, wild yeast...

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

So I checked today with the trusty hydrometer. We are at 1.040 which matches my tilt. I mean it did drop some from yesterday but definitely seems slow. Given it's day 5, I ordered Omega 106 and if bootleg gets the arl I can always consider pitching. I would have thought we would be closer to terminal ie 1.011 by now fermenting in the 60s.

 

[eliastheodosis]

So I checked today with the trusty hydrometer. We are at 1.040 which matches my tilt. I mean it did drop some from yesterday but definitely seems slow. Given it's day 5, I ordered Omega 106 and if bootleg gets the arl I can always consider pitching. I would have thought we would be closer to terminal ie 1.011 by now fermenting in the 60s.

Hmmm, well if it's dropping gravity again after ramping it up a few degrees I would let it keep going and see what happens over the next day or so. Like I mentioned above, this yeast is a bit of a weird one. If you don't want to mess with it then you can pitch the Omega, but I wouldn't be surprised if it finishes up eventually.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

I hope so I put t90 simcoe and a small canister of mosaic and citra incognito in the whirlpool so I'm a bit deep on the hops pricewise for this 5.5 gallon batch!

I had a small citra spectrum ready too for dry hopping with Nectaron so I was excited to see how this one would play out.

The last cold IPA I did I cheated with lutra and used riwaka, talus, and strata. It was a great beer and finished in three days fermentation wise! I believe I was grain to glass in about 7 days or so.

 

[mac_1103]

So it dropped 20 points in four days and then dropped another 6 points on the fifth day? Seems like it's just doing its own thing on its own schedule.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

So it dropped 20 points in four days and then dropped another 6 points on the fifth day? Seems like it's just doing its own thing on its own schedule.

Yeah but I can't say I've seen a yeast act like that but never used this product. Usually I've found the drop continues fairly steady until within a few points and slows down. This is when the curve will flatten out. Tilts can be good or bad I suppose. I had to bump from 61 to 65 to achieve the additional points. I kept it on the colder side the first three days for the ale temps with this yeast.

 

[mac_1103]

Yeah but I can't say I've seen a yeast act like that but never used this product. Usually I've found the drop continues fairly steady until within a few points and slows down. This is when the curve will flatten out.

Can't disagree, but I gather this is not a "usual" yeast.

 

[eliastheodosis]

I hope so I put t90 simcoe and a small canister of mosaic and citra incognito in the whirlpool so I'm a bit deep on the hops pricewise for this 5.5 gallon batch!

I had a small citra spectrum ready too for dry hopping with Nectaron so I was excited to see how this one would play out.

The last cold IPA I did I cheated with lutra and used riwaka, talus, and strata. It was a great beer and finished in three days fermentation wise! I believe I was grain to glass in about 7 days or so.

Wow, yeah I hope it finishes things up then! I know it's too late now but I probably wouldn't recommend this yeast for a Cold IPA. Just too temperamental. Hop schedule could get complicated, the risk of losing an expensive beer is higher, and you're just going to cover it up with hops anyway. I'm not surprised to hear that about the Lutra. I use it for quite a few IPAs and it's great for that. If you can ferment around 60F then any Weihenstephaner derivative or the new Novalager yeast is also a pretty easy option

Yeah but I can't say I've seen a yeast act like that but never used this product. Usually I've found the drop continues fairly steady until within a few points and slows down. This is when the curve will flatten out. Tilts can be good or bad I suppose. I had to bump from 61 to 65 to achieve the additional points. I kept it on the colder side the first three days for the ale temps with this yeast.

Can't disagree, but I gather this is not a "usual" yeast.

Yeah, Mac's got it right here. That's exactly what I mean by fickle up above. I never got a normal ferm curve or a consistent attenuation from it. Didn't want to go into all the different scenarios but to give some ranges I have gotten attenuation from 68% all the way to 95% with little to no change in my process. Fermentation times ranged from about 2 days to almost two weeks. Most of the time it was done in a few days and attenuated somewhere in the low 90% but sometimes it just did its own thing. Straight from the description on the Bootleg page...

"Due to these culture’s wild nature, there will be variations in fermentation performance and flavor/aroma contributions batch to batch. Brewing with local wild cultures will be a fun and unique experience, but will be far more variable than with domesticated brewer’s yeast."

I'd recommend doing something clean, straightforward, and flexible with the next pack to give the yeast space to do what it wants. It's fun but it's definitely a strange one. It's fun to see others trying it, though!

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Yeah I'm doing the beer for a competition. I thought it would be fun to play with something other than 34/70 ideally with some esters. I was on the site and figured hey why not I've never used their yeasts because I don't do much in terms of sours etc.... I clearly didn't know what I was getting myself into. That lead me to check with others who have more experience with it because I'm starting to panic especially since I'm easily over 30 on hops. That's what I get for opting to play with a new yeast on an expensive hoppy beer... Not my wisest move. I figured if I heard it's normal I'd stand down on ordering a plan b yeast. I have another batch coming from bootleg and ordered Omega. Worst case I will just have to brew a few more beers

 

[eliastheodosis]

Yeah I'm doing the beer for a competition. I thought it would be fun to play with something other than 34/70 ideally with some esters. I was on the site and figured hey why not I've never used their yeasts because I don't do much in terms of sours etc.... I clearly didn't know what I was getting myself into. That lead me to check with others who have more experience with it because I'm starting to panic especially since I'm easily over 30 on hops. That's what I get for opting to play with a new yeast on an expensive hoppy beer... Not my wisest move. I figured if I heard it's normal I'd stand down on ordering a plan b yeast. I have another batch coming from bootleg and ordered Omega. Worst case I will just have to brew a few more beers

You have a very appropriate user name I was going to quote this and call you a madman but then saw the name...

Keep us posted! I'm interested and I'm always happy to see people using experimental yeasts.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

You have a very appropriate user name I was going to quote this and call you a madman but then saw the name...

Keep us posted! I'm interested and I'm always happy to see people using experimental yeasts.

Lol!!! Hey it wouldn't be fun if I didn't play around with different hops, yeast and lately even different maltsters. I appreciate all of the insight and plan to circle back as thing progress.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Just an update we are at 1.036 now. I live out in the sticks. Hoping 34/70 arrives on Tuesday. This should get interesting.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Well landed at around 1.016 from 1.066. Certainly not a cold IPA but hopefully its okay. Opted to not use the citra spectrum on this beer!!! First time have fermentation play out like this in 11 years... Oh well... I did end up adding a rehydrated packet of 34/70 and the fresh pack a arl lol to no real avail.