boil?

[Mooseknuckle]

So after reading through man threads on this board I have actually become more confused then I was originally. I make what I think are partial grain kits. I usually get a bag of crushed grains ( usually less than 3 lbs), a container or bag of malt extract ( either dried or liquid) some hops, and a packet of yeast.

The instruction that come with the kits recommends steeping the grains for 20 minutes in 155 degree water, removing the bag ( no rinsing or squeezing ect..) add the malt extract and bring to a boil for 30 minutes, now my question is this, should it boil ( rolling boil) for only 30 minutes, and what happens if you add some extract at the start and some at the end to try and keep the beer lighter colored? Also, what happens if when you do add the extracts the temp drops and the boil goes away, do you still count the time that it takes for the liquid to get back up to the boil?

 

[maltyPython]

Adding some of the extract at the end is not good for 2 reasons: 1) you are not sure that you killed all harmful bugs that may take over your yeast, unless you boil thoroughly. And 2) you need to produce the "hot-break" From Palmer's web pages

"A foam will start to rise and form a smooth surface. This is good. If the foam suddenly billows over the side, this is a boil-over (Bad). If it looks like it is going to boil over, either lower the heat or spray the surface with water from a spray bottle. The foam is caused by proteins in the wort that coagulate due to the rolling action of the boil. The wort will continue to foam until the protein clumps get heavy enough to sink back into the pot. You will see particles floating around in the wort. It may look like Egg Drop Soup. This is called the Hot break and may take 5-20 minutes to occur, depending on the amount of protein in your extract. Often the first hop addition triggers a great deal of foaming, especially if hop pellets are used. I recommend waiting until the Hot break occurs before doing your first Hop addition and timing the hour. The extra boiling time won't hurt."

BTW, one hour boil time is the least I've ever done!

 

[Dogphish]

that's not the way you make light colored beer. the specialty grains (the ones in the bag) are what makes the beer the color it is. adding extract at the beginning vs the end shouldn't change the color of the beer (unless you are using an electric stove to heat, and burning the extract at the bottom of the pot).

 

[Mooseknuckle]

yeah it's an electric, I was told that adding the extract changes the color because it caramalizes.

 

[triethylborane]

Malliard reactions in the boiling phase are important. Do a 1 hour boil.

 

[SoonerDoc]

There is such an accepted practice as late extract addition.

And you're doing extract kits with steeping grains.

 

[Mooseknuckle]

There is such an accepted practice as late extract addition.

And you're doing extract kits with steeping grains.

do you happen to know whether there are benefits to adding later?

 

[SoonerDoc]

I've never tried it (I think Yoop was just posting about it the other day). It's is supposed to lessen the darkening of your wort, like you thought. I believe it's okay to put 1/3 to 1/2 in at the beginning of the boil, then the rest at 15 minutes or so. I think Yoop said she boils it less time that that even and put more in at the end. Maybe she'll show up to help out.

 

[SoonerDoc]

Here's a link:
http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2008/02/20/better-beer-with-late-malt-extract-additions/

Today we look at a method for malt extract brewers that can improve the quality and color of your extract beer. Both liquid and dried malt extract beers suffer from an effect called carmelization when brewing. Carmelization occurs when liquid extract or excess sugars settle to the bottom of the brew pot during the boil and the sugars carmelize (harden) in the bottom of the pot.
This typically darkens the beer, and in extreme cases can also affect the taste of the beer. Obviously this is a problem for brewers of light colored beers. The effect is also common in high gravity beers in small brew pots because of the higher proportion of extract to water when boiling.
To avoid the ill effects of carmelization, malt extract brewers should delay the addition of the majority of their extracts until late in the boiling process. The extract must be added late enough in the boil to avoid carmelization, but early enough to assure that the extract is sterilized. Boiling the extract for about 15 minutes is a good balance.
I recommend adding a small amount of malt extract (perhaps 15-25%) early in the boil if using separate hops. The sugars and enzymes in the extract aid in extracting alpha acids (bitterness) from the hops. Boiling hops with a small amount of extract will result in smoother hop flavors and appropriate bitterness that you can’t achieve with plain water alone.
Late extract additions do present one challenge for the brewer. Late extract additions increase the bitterness of the beer. Predicting the International Bitterness Units (IBUs) of late extract additions to match your target style is mathematically complex. Most brewing software and spreadsheets are simply not designed to handle multiple hop and late malt extract additions in the boil. The gravity and bitterness of the boil will vary with each ingredient added.
To do the calculation by hand you would need to calculate the gravity of the boil at each stage, bitterness contribution from each hop addition taking this gravity into account and then combine these into one overall IBU number for the brew. To compensate, some brewers use a “rule of thumb” such as “reduce hops by 20% when using late extract brews”. Another method is to calculate the hops addition without the late extract and then add 5-10% more hops to compensate for lower utilization during the last 15 minutes of the boil.
Recently we did add a late extract option to BeerSmith. To use the late extract option, simply check the “late extract” box when adding extracts to your recipe and specify the boil time. BeerSmith will include all of your hop additions and late extract additions into the IBU (bitterness) calculations, combining them appropriately to predict your overall bitterness (IBUs).

 

[Mooseknuckle]

thanks for the link and the copy paste, I think one of my issues is the size of pot (Don't snicker, my wife says it's fine )