Boil Control with Pontentiometer?

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martyjhuebs

Naked Gnome Brew Co
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I am trying to get into electric brewing and dont have much of an electrical background. I am looking to run a 120V RIMS tube with a PID and SSR but I also want to run 240V boil. If i am installing a potentiometer, will I also need a SSR to control the heating element?
 
I am trying to get into electric brewing and dont have much of an electrical background. I am looking to run a 120V RIMS tube with a PID and SSR but I also want to run 240V boil. If i am installing a potentiometer, will I also need a SSR to control the heating element?

I think you are referring to something called an SSVR which uses a potentiometer with an SSR to control heating power. I use something like this and it works like a charm:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00976QYOE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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Check out stilldragon controllers kit is cheep and shows a ssvr and potentiometer.
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/accessories/diy-controller-kit.html

Thats definitely a good price... I bought a PID that came with a SSR and Potentiometer already. Its looking like I will need another SSR and some heatsinks and ill be good.


The options mentioned above are probably better but here is a third option ebay is full of...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10000W-110V...719892?hash=item43e8185e14:g:ajcAAOSwX~dWkeyJ

I have read mixed reviews here of how well this works on our 240v 60hz power vs the 50hz is was ideally designed for.

I used this SSVR kit myself in a recent build and for $11 total its the best value I have found.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-KYOTTO-...d=100010&rk=1&rkt=24&mehot=pp&sd=130662445830

Thanks for info. I may have to pick one of those up...
 
I used an SSVR for another project, a blower for a bronze casting furnace, and found that the typical potentiometer range is terrible. 2/3 turn of the control does nothing, then the last 1/3 gives 100% of the range. This gave terrible fine control. I then found "Reverse Logarithmic" potentiometers where the resistance change is very high at the 'low end' and tapers off toward the high end. For the blower this made a world of difference.
Since I was already working on my electric conversion I bought 2 of these potentiomters. When I got the boil kettle done I was glad I did. My sweet spot for the boil is at about the 25% position, and I have great fine control over the boil.

I used 2 different SSVRs, and tried the 'standard' potentiometers ('audio taper' and standard taper) and both were terrible for fine control. The 'audio taper' is also logarithmic, but not reverse, meaning it changes slowly at first, then quickly toward the end. That was even worse than the standard type.

I got mine from Digikey, but I don't have the item number handy, although it could be this one. A quick look on ebay and I found only 1. I vaguely recall that the SSVR needs a somewhat higher rated wattage potentiometer than typical. The linked one is 2w.
 
I used an SSVR for another project, a blower for a bronze casting furnace, and found that the typical potentiometer range is terrible. 2/3 turn of the control does nothing, then the last 1/3 gives 100% of the range. This gave terrible fine control. I then found "Reverse Logarithmic" potentiometers where the resistance change is very high at the 'low end' and tapers off toward the high end. For the blower this made a world of difference.

Thanks for the info... Im sure the one I bought isnt very good, it was less than $3, but all it has to do in the end is drop the boil.
 
Thanks for the info... Im sure the one I bought isnt very good, it was less than $3, but all it has to do in the end is drop the boil.

yup... this is why many of us just use a pid with the pwm manual mode built in... it works the same way but does have better fine boil control and you can totally avoid boil overs this way.. (I brew indoors) I set my pid to 207 degrees and set the alarm to go off when its reached so I can leave the room when that happens I then set it to manual mode and 75-80% for my consistent rolling boil... you have the advantage of a temp readout to know how far along you are during warmup and also for chilling depending on your method...

since these pids (mypin td4-snr) are only about $30 with shipping the cost difference is negligible. (add the $20 sensor with quick disconnect and $11 for heatsink with a decent SSR)
 
I used an SSVR for another project, a blower for a bronze casting furnace, and found that the typical potentiometer range is terrible. 2/3 turn of the control does nothing, then the last 1/3 gives 100% of the range. This gave terrible fine control. I then found "Reverse Logarithmic" potentiometers where the resistance change is very high at the 'low end' and tapers off toward the high end. For the blower this made a world of difference.
Since I was already working on my electric conversion I bought 2 of these potentiomters. When I got the boil kettle done I was glad I did. My sweet spot for the boil is at about the 25% position, and I have great fine control over the boil.

I used 2 different SSVRs, and tried the 'standard' potentiometers ('audio taper' and standard taper) and both were terrible for fine control. The 'audio taper' is also logarithmic, but not reverse, meaning it changes slowly at first, then quickly toward the end. That was even worse than the standard type.
If you reverse the connections to the audio taper pot (use middle and other end contact), it will work the other way round, with a reverse logarithmic taper, and hence be better than the standard type. The only issue is that the direction of the pot will be reversed, which may or may not annoy you (I'm left handed, so I do some things backwards anyway...). You can also fake any logarithmic style curve you want by using different linear pots and divider resistors - Secret Life of Pots.

I built a controller based on the Still Dragon kit, as I decided that the price for the kit, which includes the box (with feet), cable grips, potentiometer, label with markings for the pot, and the SSVR and heat sink, is pretty good, as it saves you a fair amount of time chasing around to get the right component list together, particularly if you need some other hardware Still Dragon sells to reduce the effective shipping cost. I can check which kind of pot it comes with later.

I didn't use the box from the Still Dragon kit, because I added a contactor and toggle switch to my controller. I also added a $17 current/voltage/power meter (Bayite, available on Amazon) to my controller, so that I can actually directly measure the amount of power I'm applying for repeatability. Variations in line voltage can theoretically affect your repeatability, even with a PID operating in manual mode, although I doubt this is a real problem in practice (although I have seen that be a problem with roasting coffee in popcorn makers). I'll eventually use the box that came with the kit for a different project, but you could probably get my additions to the controller into the larger box Still Dragon offers as an optional extra.

With the Still Dragon kit using a 40A SSVR and a 5500W element, at a supply voltage of 242V, IIRC, ~62% on the potentiometer dial corresponds to 2400W, 4000W is about 80%, 5000W is about 90%. So there's a reasonably range of control, although it could be better. Next brew day I can make a more complete table if someone needs it. A 25A SSVR would probably give better linearity across the pot's range, but it would be operating close to the rated limit at full power. A 25A SSVR would probably be a good idea for 4500W elements though.

In practice, I can dial in power to ±50W across most of the power output range using the power meter to give feedback on where I'm set to. The boil control range on a 5.5 gallon batch in my 44qt kettle is between about 60-80% of the pot setting to go from barely boiling to very vigorous rolling boil, so I find I get pretty good control there.
 
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I use the same bayite meter mentioned above in my setup... (only $11 shipped from ebay btw)

It works well even though It can be disappointing to see how much the wattage ratings of my elements are off from advertised, for example the 4500w all stainless ripple element I bought through Kals site from spike brewing only draws 4026w at most at 240v power.... Thats almost 500w less than advertised... and this varies a lot from element to element. my 1800w element actually draws over 1750w while my other 4500w elements draw 44xxw. and 42xx respectively. just something to keep in mind that full power varies for those that use them...
 
If you reverse the connections to the audio taper pot (use middle and other end contact), it will work the other way round, with a reverse logarithmic taper, and hence be better than the standard type. The only issue is that the direction of the pot will be reversed, which may or may not annoy you (I'm left handed, so I do some things backwards anyway...). You can also fake any logarithmic style curve you want by using different linear pots and divider resistors - Secret Life of Pots.

Never thought about that, but I'd never get used to it!
 
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