boil bentonite?

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I'm considering trying that with my cyser. Or maybe another dose of pectic enzyme, the first one doesn't seem to have done much. I wish there was a way to tell what the haze is from - yeast, pectin, or honey proteins. That'd make choosing a fining easier.

Maybe run small 10ml tests with different finings to see which is effective? I guess that wouldn't work with superKleer though if the leftover can't be stored.

At least Sparkaloid is powdered so it is easily divisible and you only use what's needed. Seems like it would be worth a try.
 
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The SuperKleer IIRC is a 50 ml packet and a 15 ml packet that mixes with 30 ml of warm water. So if I had two 50 ml syringes I could store them that way and dose per gallon. I think I'm gonna do that. Or maybe save a couple pill bottles.

Before I decide, I'm gonna see what the cysers look like after a week in the fridge.
 
The SuperKleer IIRC is a 50 ml packet and a 15 ml packet that mixes with 30 ml of warm water. So if I had two 50 ml syringes I could store them that way and dose per gallon. I think I'm gonna do that. Or maybe save a couple pill bottles.

Before I decide, I'm gonna see what the cysers look like after a week in the fridge.

Yeah, that or maybe save it in little 2ml cryogenic vials and then later pull out however many you need.

I played around today with a smaller graduated cylinder and the chemex coffee filter with improved results for racking off the bentonite. At least so far the bentonite definitely cleared everything up fairly rapidly. I'm not tasting it, but I'm not saying that others can't.

Like you say, once I scale up to bigger batches, the fixed percentage losses won't be as painful.
 
OK, so I just now ordered a 2000ml cylinder: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006UKIBKU/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and I notice that the very first of the amazon comments was that the guy uses it to decant yeast from his fermenter. :cool: So, he had essentially the same general idea.

There also exist 4000ml cylinders, but they're much pricier.

Reporting back: I tried out the 2 liter graduated cylinder for separating the M31 batch from its bentonite addition, and it worked beautifully. As a side benefit, because of the markings, I could even track the rate of lees compaction to decide when I was close enough to the asymptote of lees compaction to decant the mead. :)

What I especially like is that I can just pour off the mead. :cool: I don't need to use a siphon. So, one less piece of equipment to clean (though, of course, the graduated cylinder needs to be cleaned, so I guess that much is a wash).

P.S. I paid $25.82 for the cylinder, incuding Prime delivery. When I first posted there were 4 available for immediate Prime shipment, but those are now gone and now it's a different shipper and a higher price. So....if you wait long enough the price will maybe fall back down again.
 
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The cold crash for a week hasn't helped my cyser at all. Kinda disappointing that the bentonite didn't have more effect. I have SuperKleer but it says it's not effective for pectin, and I dunno what's causing the haze. Think I'll try some pectic enzyme first and see if that does the trick. If not, then the SuperKleer.
 
The cold crash for a week hasn't helped my cyser at all. Kinda disappointing that the bentonite didn't have more effect. I have SuperKleer but it says it's not effective for pectin, and I dunno what's causing the haze. Think I'll try some pectic enzyme first and see if that does the trick. If not, then the SuperKleer.

Remind me how much bentonite you are adding per gallon? Maybe you needed more. In secondary, I've tried 1/2 teaspoon per gallon and 1 teaspoon per gallon. Although the 1/2 teaspoon per gallon kinda sorta worked, in retrospect it took a lot longer to work and I don't think it cleared quite as well as with the 1 teaspoon per gallon. So, although the losses at 1 teaspoon per gallon are in the range of 20-25%, I reverted to using 1 teaspoon bentonite per gallon, because it clears very well and it's fast. Also, as I wrote above, I'm now using a tall 2000ml graduated cylinder for decanting the bottom 2+ liters, and that helps a lot.

On newer batches (on yeasts that I don't know will flocculate well enough), I'm putting 1 teaspoon bentonite into primary, but as none of those have yet finished, I don't know whether that amount is adequate or not.
 
1 tsp per gallon, dry in primary. That worked perfectly for my mead... not so in the cyser. Cold definitely helps, and that's noted in the instructions that I read online. They also say if doing it post-ferment that you should give it a good stir after about 12 hrs.
 
1 tsp per gallon, dry in primary. That worked perfectly for my mead... not so in the cyser. Cold definitely helps, and that's noted in the instructions that I read online. They also say if doing it post-ferment that you should give it a good stir after about 12 hrs.

Yeah, EC Kraus wrote that 45F must temperature when the bentonite is added greatly increases the bentonite's "efficiency." I take that to mean that it would require more bentonite to get similar results if the must temperature is higher when the bentonite is added. If you thoroughly mixed it up after cold crashing it though, then I'm guessing (?) you got the benefits of the improved efficiency anyway, but just later.

I guess one other difference between yours and my approach to clearing this cyser is that I had racked off the yeast lees before adding the bentonite. Maybe your bentonite got all used up dealing with the yeast detritus, and there wasn't enough extra leftover to conquer the haze? It's a mystery.
 
Reporting back: I tried out the 2 liter graduated cylinder for separating the M31 batch from its bentonite addition, and it worked beautifully. As a side benefit, because of the markings, I could even track the rate of lees compaction to decide when I was close enough to the asymptote of lees compaction to decant the mead. :)

What I especially like is that I can just pour off the mead. :cool: I don't need to use a siphon. So, one less piece of equipment to clean (though, of course, the graduated cylinder needs to be cleaned, so I guess that much is a wash).

P.S. I paid $25.82 for the cylinder, incuding Prime delivery. When I first posted there were 4 available for immediate Prime shipment, but those are now gone and now it's a different shipper and a higher price. So....if you wait long enough the price will maybe fall back down again.

Decanting from one vessel to another is too much oxidation for me....
 
Decanting from one vessel to another is too much oxidation for me....

Good point. I've shifted to adding the metabisulfite before racking, since it's also an anti-oxidant. Not sure how much difference it makes though. Same with ascorbic acid. Ideally if I could backsweeten with honey before racking, I'd also get the benefit of its antioxidant properties. I may try that in the future.
 
I guess one other difference between yours and my approach to clearing this cyser is that I had racked off the yeast lees before adding the bentonite. Maybe your bentonite got all used up dealing with the yeast detritus, and there wasn't enough extra leftover to conquer the haze? It's a mystery.

What did you use for apple juice? Was it cloudy?
 
So it seems that my cyser's haze may be pectins after all. After a week with some pectic enzyme the mead is clearer and there's a light layer of lees in the jugs. I've had it take a few weeks to work before in cider when added post ferment, so I'll just give them some more time.

Before

OB Cyser racked.JPG


After

cyser after pectinase.JPG
 
Use one to fill the other then top the low one with a fruit juice for a melomel

Nah, they're cysers. Don't want any other fruit. I'm making a quick 1/2 gal cider to take up the space. Hopefully they'll be OK for a couple weeks.

I've had a profound revelation that I need to keep bottles of assorted meads, cysers, and ciders on hand for just such occasions. And also as a purge medium for clearing out the cleaning water in the filter pads on my filter.
 
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I made a split batch and dosed one half with bentonite and left the other without bentonite. I did this at 1.085SG, after high Krausen. Interestingly, the bentonite version bubbles a lot more and has proceeded to ferment more quickly (SG decreases at a faster rate). I'm guessing that the bentonite provides more nucleation points, leading to more off-gassing of CO2, making conditions better for a faster fermentation.
 
Call me insane but I add bentonite to boiling water just enough to make it thoroughly wet and refuse to wait for it to fully hydrate before adding it to primary. With wine mind you, still learning mead. I prefer gelatin or egg white finings for secondary with wines and tertiary rack no more than 2 weeks after I decide to add it and cold crash.
Teflon non stick is your friend for bentonite. Ones it drys its a real pain to get off stainless or ceramics.
 
Which is best to clear orange juice wine? bentonite or pectin enzyme. I have only the two.

No need to rush. Pectic enzyme can be left in indefinitely. Bentonite will constantly strip your flavor profile if left in for long.
 
@CKuhns
Do you use this filter because it’s gravity fed? If I have a kegging set up should I go with an in-line system?
I’m more interested in filtering my ciders but could also see myself using it for session meads.
 
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