Ordinary Bitter Boddington's Bitter

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hout17

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My calculator says 0.69 psi for 1.5 vols at 38 fahrenheit.

Have to say that it should be served at around 54 fahrenheit and if carbing at that temp for 1.5 vols its 6.25 psi.

If you were going to carb cold and then warm up remember to adjust your regulator when you get it warmer.

Big but here very low readings and adjustments on a regulator are difficult and you might need to use an inline regulator on a different scale or check very closely with a separate gauge to cross check your regulator reading.

I use this calculator Beer Carbonation Calculator

Note if you went to 1.2 vols which wouldn't be unreasonable either you'd be overcarbed at 38 F.

Further some places serve this on draught with nitro so you could try a stout tap and see what difference it made to your beer.
Great thanks for the info I was looking at a chart and must've misread. My regulator does 2 PSI increments so I'll probably carb between 6 and 8 psi at 54°. I want to try and keep with the style on this one so I appreciate you pointing the temp out.

I usually run between 8 and 10 psi on most other beers like reds and IPAs at 38°.

I have about 8' of 3/16" beer line. Should the 6 to 8 psi range be fine for being able to dispense the beer? I'm a novice in the draft department.

Thanks for the help.
 

DuncB

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Great thanks for the info I was looking at a chart and must've misread. My regulator does 2 PSI increments so I'll probably carb between 6 and 8 psi at 54°. I want to try and keep with the style on this one so I appreciate you pointing the temp out.

I usually run between 8 and 10 psi on most other beers like reds and IPAs at 38°.

I have about 8' of 3/16" beer line. Should the 6 to 8 psi range be fine for being able to dispense the beer? I'm a novice in the draft department.

Thanks for the help.
I'm no expert that's for certain.

This is the reference chart that is used for beer line length calculation.


 

cyberbackpacker

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...My regulator does 2 PSI increments so I'll probably carb between 6 and 8 psi at 54°...
Just be aware that even though your gauge may read in 2psi increments, on most standard co2 regulators, they become very unreliable below 10psi. So even if you have it "set" at say 6psi, it could actually be 2 or 12 psi.
 

DuncB

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Just be aware that even though your gauge may read in 2psi increments, on most standard co2 regulators, they become very unreliable below 10psi. So even if you have it "set" at say 6psi, it could actually be 2 or 12 psi.
Agreed as per my statement

" very low readings and adjustments on a regulator are difficult and you might need to use an inline regulator on a different scale or check very closely with a separate gauge to cross check your regulator reading."

I should have added to ensure you are at the correct pressure.
 
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hout17

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No worries folks I got the hint from both of you regarding the regulator accuracy down in the single psi digits. I'll be sure to check with another gauge. Thanks!
 

DuncB

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I'd go for a max of 1.5 carbonation for an ale.

It all depends on definition I suppose, 1.2 - 1.5 are ideal carbonation levels for an ale so would be perfect for that style. But if you had a wheat beer then it would be on the low/ disastrously undercarbonated.

Not sure that you can go for max levels of anything else but CO2 as nitrogen not that soluble and oxygen levels to any degree are wrecking your beer unless you are drinking it on cask very fast and then it's perfection for a while.
 

hout17

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I'm going to go for carb levels of 1.5 maybe 1.4. Nitro isn't an option for me so it will just be CO2. I might pick up a Perlick creamer faucet with flow control and see how that works. Can't wait to try this Bodds attempt.

Appreciate the info!
 

Northern_Brewer

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I thought British ales, in general, are low in carbonation.
Well, it's more that (classicly) they're naturally carbonated. That doesn't mean they can't be really quite carbonated when a cask if first tapped, as the ceiling of many a pub cellar will attest. And in the first few hours after tapping, a cask can be full of condition. But that a) relies on good enough cellarmanship for them to be properly conditioned in the first place and b) it lasts for a fairly small percentage of the lifetime of a cask on the bar, so it's fairly rare to find. But scanning Untappd for some examples of Marble Pint, which is the (NZ hop-heavy) spiritual successor to Boddies, this is an extreme example of condition clearing leading to a bit too much head - that opacity is all CO2 in what is otherwise a completely clear beer :
1629644934581.png


And this is a bit more representative, at "home" in the legendary Marble Arch pub in Manchester :
1629645061937.png


Again you can see the condition clearing from the bottom - any lack of clarity on the bottom is just being out of focus and maybe a bit of condensation on the outside. And I can't tell you what a joy it is to be showing off photos of beer in actual pubs again!

So British beers should have a bit more carbonation than most people think, they just don't get to experience them with sufficient condition. It also gets complicated up north with sparklers. But you just can't really replicate cask conditioning with force carbonation, even if you mess about with nitro, it's just "different".

But personally I aim for something like 1.7-1.9, in bottles at least.
 

hout17

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Well, it's more that (classicly) they're naturally carbonated. That doesn't mean they can't be really quite carbonated when a cask if first tapped, as the ceiling of many a pub cellar will attest. And in the first few hours after tapping, a cask can be full of condition. But that a) relies on good enough cellarmanship for them to be properly conditioned in the first place and b) it lasts for a fairly small percentage of the lifetime of a cask on the bar, so it's fairly rare to find. But scanning Untappd for some examples of Marble Pint, which is the (NZ hop-heavy) spiritual successor to Boddies, this is an extreme example of condition clearing leading to a bit too much head - that opacity is all CO2 in what is otherwise a completely clear beer :
View attachment 739872

And this is a bit more representative, at "home" in the legendary Marble Arch pub in Manchester :
View attachment 739879

Again you can see the condition clearing from the bottom - any lack of clarity on the bottom is just being out of focus and maybe a bit of condensation on the outside. And I can't tell you what a joy it is to be showing off photos of beer in actual pubs again!

So British beers should have a bit more carbonation than most people think, they just don't get to experience them with sufficient condition. It also gets complicated up north with sparklers. But you just can't really replicate cask conditioning with force carbonation, even if you mess about with nitro, it's just "different".

But personally I aim for something like 1.7-1.9, in bottles at least.
So for a CO2 draft system 1.5 would be a bit to low in your opinion? I just want to get the carbonation right on this one so any relevant info would be appreciated.
 

Northern_Brewer

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Maybe a bit low - but as I say it's a bit apples and oranges, it's just a different kind of carbonation. Some people squirt it up and down a bit with a syringe to try and replicate the tight creaminess of a sparkled head.

Now the next challenge is cloning Pint - Munich & torrified wheat, Lemon Drop, Nelson Sauvin, Dr. Rudi, and Citra.... ;)
 

hout17

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Maybe a bit low - but as I say it's a bit apples and oranges, it's just a different kind of carbonation. Some people squirt it up and down a bit with a syringe to try and replicate the tight creaminess of a sparkled head.

Now the next challenge is cloning Pint - Munich & torrified wheat, Lemon Drop, Nelson Sauvin, Dr. Rudi, and Citra.... ;)
Thanks, yeah, I'm well aware I won't be able to fully replicate it. I could also just bottle it and carb to 1.7 or naturally carbonate in a keg.

I'm most likely going to keg it on Monday and I think I'll put the range between 1.5 and 1.8 on a dart board and wherever I hit that will be what I force carb it up to lol. Either way I'm sure it will still be great beer. Thanks for your input and actual pics!
 

hout17

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Alright folks just got the bodds kegged. Corrected final gravity comes in at 1.011 estimated 3.8% abv.

I also received my creamer Perlick faucet so we will give that a shot when it is carbed up!

The sample tasted VERY good.

PXL_20210824_220650570.jpg


Edit: One more Pic!

PXL_20210824_223713698.jpg
 
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hout17

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Next time I brew this which based on the sample will be quite a bit I think I'm going to naturally carbonate in the keg and pick up a floating dip tube.

I wonder if this will help bring me closer to the cask conditioned version. I know it still won't be the same but I would think it may bring me closer.

Thoughts?
 

Northern_Brewer

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Natural conditioning will always get you closer, it's just different to force carbing.

The CAMRA purists will argue that you need just a hint of oxidation but while it definitely helps darker styles, it's not something you really want for something this pale.
 

hout17

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Here you go came out pretty tasty! I have it carbed to 1.7 @54°F. It's actually a little.lighter than the picture but this is the best one I could get!

PXL_20210907_015038404.jpg
 

DuncB

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That's looking good, I find beer very difficult to get a good picture. Just finished my five points best clone the other day, drank perfectly clear down to the last half pint I could get out of the keg with the beer engine. Plus there was only half a pint of dregs left so got great utilisation.
IMG_20210904_185743.jpg
 

hout17

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Nice that looks great beautiful beer!

Yeah, I didn't cold crash or do anything to promote clearing and used wyeast 1318 so it may take a while to clear but tastes great.
 

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The taste of the yeast is important for real ale, I made a Harveys Sussex clone and when it was cloudy it really tasted fantastic. Once it was clear it looked good but failed to deliver on the taste. But cask ale is mostly a young beer. I've just done a fremlins best clone and getting ready to transfer that to the barrel for secondary. So it'll be a few days yet.
 

Northern_Brewer

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The taste of the yeast is important for real ale, I made a Harveys Sussex clone and when it was cloudy it really tasted fantastic. Once it was clear it looked good but failed to deliver on the taste.
You shouldn't be tasting "yeast" - esters etc produced by the yeast, but not the yeast itself. Up until 5 years ago or so, if a pint was anything other than crystal clear, it would get sent back as the assumption would be that it came from the dregs of the barrel. It's got a bit more complicated now with the hazy influence, but even today you'll see the older generation questioning hazy pints even if that's what they're meant to be like.

Whatever you're experiencing, it's not the yeast. If you're serving it on cask then it's more likely oxidation - a hint is good, too much is death.
 

DuncB

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@Northern_Brewer
Yes I probably didn't explain that well, was a slight haze and it probably was the esters late in primary ferment. Those nuances disappeared in that batch as the yeast cleaned up. It wasn't oxidised that's for sure as really at the end of primary, but as you say oxidation an essential part of the cask experience.
 

hout17

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Here's a video and a pic I'll probably use some finings next time to clear it up a little more bit it's been pretty tasty got a little more foam since I couldn't hold the glass during the pour sitting at 1.7 volumes of carbonation drinks smooth.

Now I'm tempted to get a beer engine, firkin, and aspirator so I can hook up CO2 to the cask to fill headspace instead of air. Cask in basement and run a line up to my office on the first floor.

PXL_20210921_204804209.jpg




 

DuncB

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I have the demand valve on the beer engine ( essential if you have any pressure in the system ) and then just squirt a bit of CO2 into the barrel to replace the volume. Not so convenient for you if the pin ( half the size of a firkin ) is in your basement.

Beer engine info here

Chuck info in here

Great news with the beer engine.

Beer Engine strip down advice
..
www.homebrewtalk.com



Good video of how to set engine and demand valve up, here



This thread very useful
Beer Engine Set Up Help
Hi, First post, so please go easy :laugh8: I'm hoping somebody can advise me on how I can connect the beer engine I have acquired to a bag In box supplied by my local brewery. After doing a bit of prior research I bought some 3/8 keg beer pipe, metal hose clips, a non return valve and a Vitop...
www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk

Demand valve for beer engine
keg back filled with co2. It also helps to counter balance the hand pull operation. I’m having a slight issue with half foaming. For reference the pressure I set is around 1-2 psi so it’s not over carbed. I think it might be the demand valve as I can definitely hear air being drawn in during...
www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk

and the chap called peebee wrote this which is extremely thorough

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw...bWc/view?resourcekey=0-oe5EQ2MtwRSmrDKRMjcO1g



This thread also has some useful ideas / different methods for serving relevant bit for us from post 1345 the last page

Mini Keg Discussion / Mods / Show Off - Dedicated Thread
Hi All, Just wondering how you guys manage your kegs? I have acquired 6 x 8L kegs and 3 x 5L kegs. I have 3 tapping heads and the remaining kegs have the blank caps. Do you just switch the tapping head to the next keg and if so how do you carbonate it beforehand? Thanks yes - switching heads is...
aussiehomebrewer.com

Also just discovered this whilst looking up for this reply and it's also very good

How to attach a Beer Engine Hose | Real Ale America
 

schmurf

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I've got a sodastream gas bottle connected to the kegs I use for my beer engine. Just a tiny tiny bit of pressure, almost not noticeable on the regulator, is enough.
 

hout17

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Tried my hand at making #2 Invert today it went really well. Going to use it for the Barclay Perkins 1943 IP Boddington's Recipe I'm going to brew this week to try out. It's sitting right around 30ish SRM by my eye. Can't wait to try this recipe!

PXL_20210926_230721447.jpg


PXL_20210927_013301520.jpg
 

hout17

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@hout17
Looking good, try a big blob of blutack to hold your temp probe on nicely and give a more stable reading for the beer.
Thanks for the info. I do have a tilt in the fermentor so I know what the beer temp is sitting at. Currently holding 68 deg F. There is a 2 degree difference between the probe and the internal fermentation temp currently.

I'll definitely give the blutack a try though thanks.
 
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