Blue Moon kicking my butt!

[LarMoeCur]

I'm at a loss on this. My second attempt at a Blue Moon clone has resulted in failure again. I made a few post about my first failure. With all the input I recieved I changed the recipt and some of my brewing habbits.

7.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 57.1 %
4.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 32.7 %
1.25 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 10.2 %
0.50 oz Cascade [6.90%] (50 min) Hops 10.3 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [6.90%] (15 min) Hops 5.4 IBU
0.25 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.25 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.28 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) Yeast-Wheat

I hit my target mash right at 154F. It dropped to 153 over the hour. My collected 8 gallons to boil. Boiled down to 6 gallons with a OG of 1.055 (72% so I was happy). I gave it 14 days in the primary FG 1.012 and racked directly in to the keg(ferment between 70-72). I tasted it three days later. It was still a little flat but it tasted bad. Nothing like Blue Moon. Sour to start with a really bitter finish but not hop bitter. No wheat beer taste at all. Just way off. Any ideas? I'm at a lose I hit all my numbers almost spot on.

 

[jdoiv]

I would switch out the cascade hops for either hallertau or saaz. Cascade just doesn't fit the profile of a wit.

 

[FlyingHorse]

BierMuncher swears by his Blue Balls recipe; you might give that a try (or look to it for inspiration).

 

[PseudoChef]

What temp did your fermentation take place? You really want to control a wit yeast. Start out around 66-68 range and gradually ramp up toward the last 2 days of fermentation to lower 70s. This way, you'll pull the spicy characteristics of the yeast out by not compromise the palate by overwhelming phenols.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Bike n Brew,

My first attempt was BierMuncher recipe. My eff. was way low. After consulting the Professionals here, I change the recipe. My homebrew shop was out of flaked wheat and Kent hops so I changed it again.

PseudoChef,

I fermented between 70-72F. At night the temp dropped to 70 but was no higher than 72 at any time.

 

[rjhockey]

I am actually just about to bottle a BierMuncher like recipe I altered his a little bit and added oats, but it smells and tastes dead on to the 6er I just bought of blue moon.

 

[Beerrific]

I fermented between 70-72F. At night the temp dropped to 70 but was no higher than 72 at any time.

Was that the temp of the beer or ambient? Beer temp can be 6-8 degrees above ambient. Even if, I am not sure if that was the problem, just something to think about.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I have the temp strips on my carboy it was showing 68 and 70 at night. 70 and 72during the day. I error on the up side so I called it 70 night and 72 day.

 

[BREW N QUE]

I just bottled this Friday night, but from the samples I tasted its really close to Blue Moon.


Type: All Grain

Batch Size: 5.50 gal


Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) UK (1.0 SRM) Grain 43.90 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 43.90 %
8.0 oz Dingemans Aromatic Malt (19.0 SRM) Grain 4.88 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 4.88 %
4.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 2.44 %
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.30 %] (60 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (5 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) Yeast-Wheat



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.98 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.82 %
Bitterness: 12.6 IBU Calories: 222 cal/pint
Est Color: 4.1 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 10.25 lb
Sparge Water: 3.39 gal Grain Temperature: 68.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 110.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 13.00 qt of water at 168.3 F 154.0 F

 

[cubbies]

IMO, the hop profile is not correct, and there is not enough Coriander and Orange peel. That stuff does not have a very potent profile, so it takes more than you would think you would need. I would say a whole oz of Coriander is not out of the question, and Cascade has no business in a Blue Moon clone.

 

[PseudoChef]

IMO, the hop profile is not correct, and there is not enough Coriander and Orange peel. That stuff does not have a very potent profile, so it takes more than you would think you would need. I would say a whole oz of Coriander is not out of the question, and Cascade has no business in a Blue Moon clone.

I have actually heard quite the opposite. It seems as if 0.5 oz crushed coriander is pretty common.

 

[BierMuncher]

I'm at a loss on this. My second attempt at a Blue Moon clone has resulted in failure again. I made a few post about my first failure. With all the input I recieved I changed the recipt and some of my brewing habbits.

7.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 57.1 %
4.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 32.7 %
1.25 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 10.2 %
0.50 oz Cascade [6.90%] (50 min) Hops 10.3 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [6.90%] (15 min) Hops 5.4 IBU
0.25 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.25 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.28 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) Yeast-Wheat

I hit my target mash right at 154F. It dropped to 153 over the hour. My collected 8 gallons to boil. Boiled down to 6 gallons with a OG of 1.055 (72% so I was happy). I gave it 14 days in the primary FG 1.012 and racked directly in to the keg(ferment between 70-72). I tasted it three days later. It was still a little flat but it tasted bad. Nothing like Blue Moon. Sour to start with a really bitter finish but not hop bitter. No wheat beer taste at all. Just way off. Any ideas? I'm at a lose I hit all my numbers almost spot on.

Loose the Cascade and go with a more neutral hop like EKG or Fuggles.
I use at least .75 or more of the coriander per 5 gallons…making sure it’s well crushed….for at least a 15 minute boil. (My last batch I did 1 full oz per 5 gallons)
Balance out your grain bill more towards the wheat side:
5 pounds Pilsner
5 pounds White Wheat (Make sure to double crush the wheat malt…remeber it is a whole kernel and needs more than just one cracking.
1-2 pounds of Flaked Wheat (loose the oats).

Keep the IBU’s under 19 so the malt profile and the spices come through instead of the hops bitterness.

Here’s a recipe I just did that will be judged this weekend (10 gallon recipe):

Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 13.69 gal
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Estimated Color: 3.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 15.0 IBU

10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 43.5 %
10.00 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 43.5 %
3.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 13.0 %
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [6.90%] (40 min) Hops 15.0 IBU
2.00 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
2.00 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
2 Pkgs Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) Yeast-Wheat

 

[cubbies]

I have actually heard quite the opposite. It seems as if 0.5 oz crushed coriander is pretty common.

Well, in my personal experiences, a .5 oz doesnt do much. I have a wit recipe that the first time I made it, I used .5 oz and it didnt contribute much. Then the second time I made it and I used .75 oz and it was much better; however, if you really like the spiciness, going with a full oz would be even better.

Of course, these things are going to vary. The freshness of the Coriander, crushed or uncrushed etc. I used crushed coriander that I bought at Trader Joes or something like that.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I'm thinking about adding some crushed coriander and some fresh orange zest to the keg. Should I boil the coriander and zest in some water first? or just add it in?

 

[cubbies]

I dont think you would want to just add it in, as that could risk contamination. I dont konw if I would bother. That stuff will just settle and then you might clog up your lines with it. The only way I would do it is if you could tie a bag off to the dip tub or something, but that might be a little risky. It doesnt have to taste like Blue Moon to be good. I would just drink it and try adjusting your recipe next time.

 

[CatchinZs]

The wit I did (AHS kit) had the bitter orange come through way to much.
I attempted to strain it but my cheese cloth collapsed so I was force to primary it with the peel in the fermenter.
I'm not sure if that caused the extra bitterness or not but I sure won't be leaving it in again until I do one with out it and sample the results.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I'm going to wait a few days to let it fully carbonate. If it's still off. I'm going to add some orange zest and coriander in a bag. I'm going to risk the contamination because as of right now it's not drinkable. It could be the bitter orange that made it way to bitter.

 

[BierMuncher]

I'm going to wait a few days to let it fully carbonate. If it's still off. I'm going to add some orange zest and coriander in a bag. I'm going to risk the contamination because as of right now it's not drinkable. It could be the bitter orange that made it way to bitter.

Instead of dry hopping the spices…crush the coriander, combine with the zest and boil in about 3-4 cups of water for 10-15 minutes. Then strain the liquid and add this “tea” concentrate to the keg.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Wilco, thanks Biermuncher