Bloody Saison - Comments Please

[Calder]

Next weekend I plan to make an hibiscus beer. It is the first time I've used it, and it could be a while before I get to try it again. It is not something I'm going to want to experiment with (don't think I want that much of it), so I want to do the best I can going in. Here is what I am thinking:

Partial Mash (7 gallons):

Grains:
2 lbs Vienna Malt
2 lbs 2-row
0.75 lbs Aromatic Malt
0.75 lbs Acid Malt (for a slight sourness)

Mash low (148 F) to dry it out).

Other Fermentables:
4.5 lbs Briess Wheat LME
1.5 lbs Cane Sugar

OG should be about 1.056. Looking to end up around 1.006/1.008 (about 6.5% abv).

Hops:
Millenium for bittering (to around 30 IBUs)
0.75 ozs Liberty @ 10
0.75 ozs Liberty @ 5

Chimay yeast (because that is the Belgian I am running) ferment at 75 F.

Other additions:

At 10 mins - 1.5 ozs Hibiscus Flowers, Orange Zest, and Paradise Seeds
At 0 mins - 1.5 ozs Hibiscus Flowers, OrangeZest, and Paradise Seeds (steep for 20 mins before cooling)
Secondary (several weeks) -1.5 ozs Hibiscus Flowers, Orange Zest, and Paradise Seeds (Steeped in vodka a week before adding)

Any comments welcome. If there is something obviously wrong, I would prefer to know it before I make this. Am I over-doing the flavors?

Orange zest - not sure how much to use. Thinking about the zest from 1 orange at each addition.

Paradise Seeds - About a gram for each addition.

I'm really looking for help, so if you have any thoughts, please comment.

Thanks


Updated 8/7/12. Reduced Sugar to 1.5 lbs and increased the LME, replaced Corriander with Paradise Seeds, and eliminated the Vanilla.

Updated 8/11/12. Changed zest from 2 oranges to 1 orange.

 

[rcsoccer]

At 10 mins - 1.5 ozs Hibiscus Flowers, Orange Zest, and Corriander
At 0 mins - 1.5 ozs Hibiscus Flowers, OrangeZest, and Corriander (steep for 20 mins before cooling)
Secondary (several weeks) -1.5 ozs Hibiscus Flowers, OrangeZest, Corriander, and 2 Vanilla beans (Steeped in vodka before adding)

I would go with some more hibiscus flowers (dried). I have had a beer at the Oregon Brewer's Festival in Portland and it was very light on the flavor. I don't know how much they added, but I couldn't taste much. The aroma came through a slight bit, but not overpowering.

Orange zest - not sure how much to use. Thinking about the zest from 2 oranges at each addition.

I would go with the zest of 3 oranges total, all added with 5 minutes left.

Corriander - probably going to take a back seat. I have some very old seeds, which have probably lost a lot of their flavor. Might use some paradise seeds, I have several ounces.

I don't think this adds much to the beer. Wyeast French Saison (3711) will give you some spicy flavors. I would go with that.

Vanilla Beans - I have a load of these, and thought they might go well. Any thoughts.

I don't think this beer needs vanilla beans. I don't think it would meld very well with the orange zest.

Just my $0.02.

Cheers!

 

[kingwood-kid]

I made 1.5 Gal of a Belgian Hibiscus in mid-April. I like it, but still have several bottles, because it's just not something I reach for all that often. Maybe you could make half a batch?

I made a tea with 2oz hibiscus per gallon of beer and added at bottling. You might try something similar to get the proportions right, although I have no idea how all the different flavors you have will taste when combined. I think the acid malt is probably unnecessary; 4.5oz of hibiscus will give you plenty of sourness in what looks to be a very dry beer.

 

[Calder]

Thanks for the input. I've made a couple of adjustments to the original recipe.

I'll see if anyone else comments on the amount of Hibiscus. I have about 10 ozs, but don't want to overwhelm the beer. 4.5 ozs seems like a lot to begin with.

I'm making additions at different times because I'm not sure when the best time to add them. Adding at different time may give a more complex beer (like adding hops at different times).

I don't really like 3711. I think it is a little uninteresting for a Belgian, although beers I brewed with it a year ago are starting to show some real promise ..... just as I'm getting to the end of them. Chimay yeast is the one I'm running now, so it is ready to go, and I think the fruityness of it will help complement the dryness of the beer.

Dumped the vanilla, and am changing from Corriander to Paridise seeds for a little spice.

Still thinking about the acid malt. It is not going to add much, and maybe it doesn't go with such a dry beer ..... but Lambics (far sourer than this will be) are dry and sometimes flavored beers.

 

[Calder]

OK, brewed today. We will see how this turns out.

Got it sitting in a 75 F water bath. Will rack to secondary in 2 weeks and add the final additions.

 

[Calder]

Racked this evening.

As fermentation slowed, heated to 80 F over a few days, stayed there for 3 days, and then let cool to room temp (~70) to settle for a few days.

Yeast flavors were the predominant flavors, tasted just like my trippel brewed with same yeast. Could not detect any flavors from hibiscus or paradise seeds. Did detect some faint orange flavor from the zest. Color was pale red.

Good Saison, but minimal contribution from the additions.

OG: 1.056

Gravity at racking: 1.008

Added secondary addition of Hibiscus, Paradise seeds, and zest; steeped in 6.5 ozs vodka for 10 days. Added vodka too.

Planning to let it sit in secondary for 6 to 10 weeks.

 

[Calder]

Wanted to update the thread with comments on the final product. I hate searching and reading threads and never finding out what happened.

2 weeks in the bottle, some carbonation, will do better with more time.

Ended up at 1.005. Accounting for the 6 ozs of vodka the abv ended up at 6.9%.

Certainly achieved the redness.

First impression is that it is more like a wine cooler than a beer.

The acid malt gives it a slight acidic bite. Not sure if it would be better without it.

I'm not very good at describing flavors, but has a lot of flavor, and very drinkable.