Black Saison?

[mcnewcp]

I've had a couple commercial examples of a Black Saison and I'm ready to make one. My recipe is mostly based on a successful saison recipe I've worked on combined with a successful black IPA recipe I've worked on, but I'd love to hear your feedback.

10.5 lb Belgian Pils (2-row) 75%
12 oz Belgian Wheat Malt 5%
12 oz Munich 7L 5%
12 oz Blackprinz 5%
4 oz Chocolate Malt 2%
Mash at 150 F for 90 minutes
1 lb Dark Belgian Candi 7%

4.9 AAU Hallertau @ 60 minutes
0.5 oz Hallertau @ flameout

WLP565 (Saison Ale I) pitched at 78 F and ramped 2 degrees per day for 7 days

 

[beergolf]

I will be interested in hearing how this turns out. I love a good Saison.. Keep us posted.

 

[Airborneguy]

I haven't posted my recipe yet because I have haven't tasted it other than when it went into the keg, but my Dystopian Saison is a black saison.

I used midnight wheat because I wanted strictly color on this one, not a little bit of roast like a black IPA. When I get home I can give you some of the recipe I created for this one.

 

[mcnewcp]

I used midnight wheat because I wanted strictly color on this one, not a little bit of roast like a black IPA.

I've had really good luck with the blackprinz in a black IPA and then I added the 4 oz of chocolate because I want a little bit of that to shine through, though I'm not sure 4 oz is enough.

 

[ThommyG]

Northern Brewer's Saison de Noel is very dark:

10# Belgian Pilsner Malt
.5# Belgian Aromatic Malt
.25# Weyermann CarafaIII
.25# Wyermann CaraAroma

1oz US Magnum (60 Min)
1# Corn Sugar (60 Min)
1# D90 Candi Syrup (60 Min)

Wyeast 3326 Farmhouse Ale
Optimum Temp 70-95F

Mash Schedule:
150F for 75 Min;
Mashout: 168F for 10 Mins

OG 1.07 Ready in 6 weeks.

 

[RhythmSection]

I've seen lots of people using de-husked carafa III special with their sparge to get the black color but with little or no roastiness. I haven't tried this yet myself so idk for sure, but I've heard good things. Just throwin it out there

 

[mcnewcp]

Here is what I settled on for the recipe:

10.5 lb Belgian Pils (2-row) 77.4%
12 oz Belgian Wheat Malt 5.5%
12 oz Munich 9L 5.5%
5 oz Briess Blackprinz 2.3%
4 oz Chocolate Malt 1.8%

Mash at 148F for 90 minutes

1 lb Belgian Candi Syrup D-90 7.4%

OG 1.068

8.0 AAU Hallertau @ 60 minutes
0.75 oz Hallertau @ flameout

Yeast: WLP565

Pitch at 78F and ramp 2 degrees per day to 90F.

 

[oach]

Definitely update this thread when you get to tasting your batch. I am in the early stages of putting together a black saison myself so this would be helpful.

 

[mcnewcp]

I ended up brewing this one on 3/2 and the gravity missed pretty high (getting used to new mash equipment) at 1.078. After 10 days in primary and 2 weeks in secondary it is down to 1.005, 9.7% abv. I was surprised that the WLP 565 took it all the way down after I missed so high. I'm sure the high fermentation temps combined with the low mash temps had a lot to do with it.

I'm going to keg it this weekend and I'll update with some tasting notes if anyone is interested.

 

[Airborneguy]

Mine is on tap now. No process flaws, but I have a few changes I'd like to make to the recipe. I'll post the recipe when I get home.

 

[smagee]

This would appear to be a long drive home...

Curious to see any differences between midnight wheat and the other options; my LHBS only carries carafa I special or debittered black, but depending on people's inputs here, I may petition them to supply another option.

 

[Airborneguy]

Ooops. I literally just walked in, long story.

Dystopian Saison
Selected Style and BJCP Guidelines
16C-Belgian And French Ale-Saison
Minimum OG: 1.048 SG Maximum OG: 1.065 SG
Minimum FG: 1.002 SG Maximum FG: 1.012 SG
Minimum IBU: 20 IBU Maximum IBU: 35 IBU
Minimum Color: 5.0 SRM Maximum Color: 14.0 SRM
Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 7.00 US gals Wort Volume After Boil: 5.50 US gals
Volume Transferred: 5.50 US gals Water Added To Fermenter: 0.00 US gals
Volume At Pitching: 5.50 US gals Volume Of Finished Beer: 5.20 US gals
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.040 SG Expected OG: 1.051 SG
Expected FG: 1.009 SG Apparent Attenuation: 82.2 %
Expected ABV: 5.6 % Expected ABW: 4.4 %
Expected IBU (using Rager): 31.4 IBU Expected Color (using Morey): 23.3 SRM
BU:GU ratio: 0.62 Approx Color:
Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Duration: 75.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 72 degF
Fermentables
Ingredient Amount % MCU When
German Pilsner Malt 7.00 lb 66.7 % 1.7 In Mash/Steeped
German Munich Malt 2.00 lb 19.0 % 2.0 In Mash/Steeped
Sugar - Panela 1.00 lb 9.5 % 1.5 In Mash/Steeped
US Midnight Wheat 0.50 lb 4.8 % 50.0 In Mash/Steeped
Hops
Variety Alpha Amount IBU Form When
German Hallertauer
Hersbrucker 3.5 % 2.00 oz 29.4 Bagged Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
German Hallertauer
Hersbrucker 3.5 % 0.75 oz 2.0 Bagged Pellet Hops 5 Min From End
Other Ingredients
Ingredient Amount When
Irish Moss 0.25 oz In Boil
Yeast
Wyeast 3726-Farmhouse Ale
Water Profile
Target Profile: No Water Profile Chosen
Mash pH: 5.2
pH Adjusted with: Unadjusted
Total Calcium (ppm): 45 Total Magnesium (ppm): 1
Total Sodium (ppm): 98 Total Sulfate (ppm): 108
Total Chloride(ppm): 90 Total Bicarbonate (ppm): 95
Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name: Single Step Infusion (149F)
Step Type Temperature Duration
Rest at 149 degF 60
Recipe Notes

 

[Airborneguy]

I know that looks like crap, but it was a quick copy and paste of the PDF Beer Alchemy generated.

This beer is great btw. It came out just slightly roasty. I'll probably use less midnight wheat next time. It's on tap now and probably will be for a little while because my wife hates anything remotely Belgian tasting.

 

[smagee]

I wonder if you might be better served using the same amount of it but only steeping or adding it at 10 minutes left in the mash? I've had decent success with the latter option, but have only tried it on a couple batches thus far, and nothing as dry as a saison yet.

 

[mcnewcp]

After about 3 weeks in the keg, mine is pretty fantastic. It turned out to be above 9% abv, which is bigger than I intended, so I'd still bump that down a little. Also, the black prinz made for a very light smoky flavor in this brew, so I think something like the midnight wheat would probably be better suited for a black saison. There is also just a hint of higher alcohols, so I'd probably bump the fermentation temp down a few degrees from what I originally posted, say ramp from wherever you pitch to the low 80s.