Bitterness Ratio Question

[Rick_R]

For those few who might not know, the bitterness ratio is a relative term found by dividing the IBU by the original specific gravity (with some modification); for example, an IBU of 30.2 and an original SG of 1.065 is done by dividing 30.2 by 65, resulting in 0.464 bitterness ratio. Beer Smith figures it as part of the recipe/results calculations.

Generally I've paid little attention to the bitterness ratio, though the recipes I brewed have run around .450 to .500. However, I made a wee-heavy and, not being a hop head and thinking I wanted more of a malty taste, I went on the low end of the hops range. I ended up with a bitterness ratio of .303. Just sampled today as I moved to a secondary and it was fairly sweet -- certainly sweeter than I expected. Not sure if this is from ignoring the bitterness ratio or because, being a big beer, it came out at 1.022 leaving some residual sweetness (or both).

So, questions for the brain trust:
- would aiming for .450 to .500 bitterness ratio have yielded more what I'm used to?
- how much attention do you pay to the bitterness ratio?
- if you pay attention, where do you normally aim?

Thanks for any thoughts.

Rick

 

[TexLaw]

Aiming for your normal ratio probably would get you something more like what you are used to, as it tends to be a good way to figure out how bitter your beer may be.

I do look at the ratio when designing recipes, but the ratio I shoot for depends on the style I'm brewing. For example, IPAs usually approach 1.000, but an oatmeal stout if probably closer to 0.350. Of course, I might monkey with it to no end. In any case, it is a good way to know if I am on the right track or completely out of whack for what I want.


TL

 

[BeerSmith]

Rick,
To be fair, the Bitterness Ratio comes from Ray Daniel's Designing Great Beers book. It is one of my favorite books.

He has recommended averages for the BU:GU ratio for major styles in the second half of the book. For scottish style ales, some sweetness is desirable but he quotes a commercial average of 0.5 to 0.62, so I think you are a bit on the low side.

Cheers!
Brad

 

[Got Trub?]

I use Ray Daniels book for guidelines for the BU:GU ratio. I've found you do have to play around with several parameters. The BU:GU ratio, the malt bill - especially with the crystal malts - and the mash temp in order to get the final beer balanced and to style.

GT

 

[Rick_R]

To be fair, the Bitterness Ratio comes from Ray Daniel's Designing Great Beers book. It is one of my favorite books.

I do have Daniel's book but didn't realize the term originated with him -- had no idea where it might have, but didn't mean to slight Daniels. I agree, it's a good book to have on hand and I should have run the numbers against his Scottish section, which says .35 to .40 as a bitterness ratio for Scottish strong ale. Had I done so, I might have adjusted a bit.

Rick

 

[TexLaw]

To be very fair, brewers have been looking at and talking about that ratio for long before Daniels put out his excellent book (at least, this one has). It's actually a fairly intuitive way to look at a recipe.

I think Ray was the first to actually publish a bunch of reference points for different styles. You could figure out the same from looking at the BJCP guidelines (to which, of course, Ray Daniels has been large contributor).


TL

 

[Brutus Brewer]

Rick,
To be fair, the Bitterness Ratio comes from Ray Daniel's Designing Great Beers book. It is one of my favorite books.

He has recommended averages for the BU:GU ratio for major styles in the second half of the book. For scottish style ales, some sweetness is desirable but he quotes a commercial average of 0.5 to 0.62, so I think you are a bit on the low side.

Cheers!
Brad

In what section of this book is this covered? I have it and there is nothing that I can see in the index that references this topic.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

In what section of this book is this covered? I have it and there is nothing that I can see in the index that references this topic.

Don't know if it has a section, per se. But each style covered has a little table about IBUs and there's a BU/GU section in those tables.

 

[BeerSmith]

The BU:GU ratio is introduced on page 126 in chapter 14. Its used for a number of the styles that follow in Ray Daniel's book.

I also wrote a new article on the bitterness ratio here.

Brad

 

[Grinder12000]

My opinion in Bitterness ratio is that it's just another tool you can use when looking at styles.

I look at the ratio and just take it for what it is. Yet another number that does with IBU and OG and so forth. Not an answer in itself but another piece in the puzzle.

 

[Grizzlybrew]

I've always been torn on this. Why do we compare bitterness to the OG instead of the FG. The OG represents fermentables or potential alcohol in an UNFERMENTED beer. The FG is more representative of residual sweetness that needs to be balanced by bitterness. I know you could make an argument for sliding the scale of BU/OG to use for FG, but with different attenuations, you could not slide it uniformly (nor would you want to). Plus, as BeerSmith mentions in his article, more than hops play into the perceived sweetness/bitterness.

Also, without a uniformly agreed upon bitterness methodology, bittering under 30 min is all over the board. Your BU/OG ratio would change depending on which method you use.

Personally, I aim for BJCP style guidelines using the Tinseth method.

 

[Revvy]

Ooh Ooh Ooh Mr Kotter Mr Kotter Mr Kotter, I have a question, doesn't isn't this chart just a quick and dirty version of the same thing?

I mean it's not by style, but it does show the range of bitterness and where it would fall based on the OG of the beer?

 

[Grizzlybrew]

Revvy, I glance at this chart every once in a while myself. I was thinking about doing one based on FG where the scale went from 1.000 to 1.040.

My other problem with this chart is that the green colors are described as "hoppy". Instead, it should read "bitter". If I did no hopping other than 10 oz Cascade at 10 min and 10 oz Cascade dryhop in a 5 gal batch, the beer would definitely be "hoppy", but not very bitter.

 

[Revvy]

Revvy, I glance at this chart every once in a while myself. I was thinking about doing one based on FG where the scale went from 1.000 to 1.040.

My other problem with this chart is that the green colors are described as "hoppy". Instead, it should read "bitter". If I did no hopping other than 10 oz Cascade at 10 min and 10 oz Cascade dryhop in a 5 gal batch, the beer would definitely be "hoppy", but not very bitter.

Good point...and I don't know much about this charts origin, I'm wondering if indeed it is about the FLAVOR of the hops as opposed to true bitterness? Since you are already using the variable IBU which is bitterness?!? So this chart maybe is something having to do with the perceived hop flavor as it relates to both the bitterness quotent (IBU) and the gravity?

 

[BigNastyBrew]

I like the Tinseth bitterness calculations better, as well, Grizzly. The BU/GU ratio will change depending on what method of bitterness you go with too. I've found that Rager is far too liberal with the IBU calculations, for my tastes. I've never used Garetz. I usually perceive the bitterness how I expected to when using Tinseth.

OP: Did you make water adjustments? You could have a higher perceived bitterness based on your Cl/SO4 ratio, too.