Bittering + dry hop only?!

[stevedasleeve]

I am considering brewing an IPA with a 60 minute addition only, no flavor or aroma hop additions, and then adding a large amount of dry hops, 2 oz pellet hops in the carboy for 2 weeks then 2 oz whole hops in the keg.

Has anyone tried something like this, sort of the reciprocal of the DFH continuous hop technique!?

Steve da sleeve

 

[Oldsock]

I think it would be fine. I tend to just do bittering, flame out, and dry hop for my IPAs/DIPAs. I was actually surprised how little hop aroma the one I just did with 9 oz at flameout was before the first dry hop addition went in. Especially with the keg hops I think you'll have more than enough hop character.

 

[Walker]

I am considering brewing an IPA with a 60 minute addition only, no flavor or aroma hop additions, and then adding a large amount of dry hops, 2 oz pellet hops in the carboy for 2 weeks then 2 oz whole hops in the keg.

Has anyone tried something like this, sort of the reciprocal of the DFH continuous hop technique!?

Steve da sleeve

It might be lacking something in the end. With no additions in the 30-15 minute range, you'll have a beer with bitterness and hop aroma, but little to no hop flavor.

 

[Bentpirate]

I agree with Walker; you should consider the middle hop additions in order to add 'complexity' to your beer profile. My typical additions begin with first wort hop, 60, 30, 12, 5, 0 (flame out), and sometimes dry

 

[boostsr20]

You can do it but I can't imagine it tasting as good as it could have. If your trying to get the malt bill to shine through, then consider another style.

 

[Oldsock]

It might be lacking something in the end. With no additions in the 30-15 minute range, you'll have a beer with bitterness and hop aroma, but little to no hop flavor.

What does "little to no hop flavor" mean? With no mid-boil additions (between 1-59 min) I've made beers that are completely saturated with the taste of hops.

I think there is value to ~15 minute additions in beers with late hops where you want to drive off the more ephemeral hop aromatics to let the malt shine through in the nose, but leave the heavier ones so you get the flavor when you take a sip. That said, when you are loading up a beer with end of boil and/or dry hops you won’t miss them since you have so much hop oil in there already.

 

[dcp27]

I'd do a FWH as the bittering add to get a little more hop character out of it. I recently did it and it worked great

 

[Houblon]

I'd do a FWH as the bittering add to get a little more hop character out of it. I recently did it and it worked great

I've done that plenty of times big FWH& dry hop only, beer comes out just fine.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Nah you are missing my point - I want to know how it tastes! Sure adding middle additions will increase hop complexity... or... not! Have you tried? I am finding these days that conventional "wisdom" for brewing is not always spot on (and I am being quite politic here!) So I have been thinking about possibilities that on paper might sound a bit idiotic but that might be great or at least different. But I am not terribly interested in brewing sh!te - hence the question!

I am curious if anyone has done this - bittering only, then big dry hop?

 

[stevedasleeve]

I've done that plenty of times big FWH& dry hop only, beer comes out just fine.

Cool that sounds even more interesting. What style? I am thinking APA or IPA for this

 

[tagz]

Any more results from a schedule like this?

 

[hopmonster2189]

I brewed an IPA with 2 oz Galena @ 60, and 2 oz at 30 with a 2 oz cascade dry hop. The brew was very bitter, but had no hop flavor and very little aroma even with the dry hop. I prefer a 60, 15, 5 min schedule with optional dry hop, gives me everything I'm looking for in IPAs. So if you want zero hop flavor in a brew skip those later additions. Depends on the hop too though, chinook at 60 and 30 would leave flavor whereas galena doesn't.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Well this is far away from my original thought - 60 minute addition + dry hops only.


My results were disappointing but not surprising. As a Scot - an Aberdonian in fact - I am cheap and want to cut down the most expensive ingredient, but as a hop head I want... hops. Of course these are in conflict and it turns out the happy medium or tipping point if you will ain't anywhere I can find.

So I am back to hop bursting with high alpha hops and that satisfies my hophead inclinations and since the more recent crops are quite high alpha I can put the "bittering" addition at 20 minutes and add from that point to the end of the boil. Works for me, great hoppy beers, but as i said it is in opposition to my cheap inclination... which I have begun to ignore most of the time while brewing. Good beer needs lots of hops - that's my tee-shirt.

Cheers,
Steve da sleeve

 

[hopmonster2189]

Good beer needs lots of hops - that's my tee-shirt.

Cheers,
Steve da sleeve

I agree send me a tee!

 

[skibb]

A local brewery in my area does their IPA with just a bittering addition and a dry-hop addition. TBH, it does lack significant hop flavor in the finish and mid pallet. It smells great and it's quite bitter (to the point where the bittering hops do carry through somewhat flavor-wise in the finish) but overall it lacks considerably in the flavor department.

 

[EyePeeA]

It might be lacking something in the end. With no additions in the 30-15 minute range, you'll have a beer with bitterness and hop aroma, but little to no hop flavor.

I would disagree here. Despite people trying to categorize hop additions for bitterness/flavor/aroma, you can still have a ton of hop flavor by skipping the very naive advice that 20-10 minute additions offers the best flavor. This is a false presumption.

Rather, 20-10 minute additions offer a sort of middle ground of both hop bitterness & hop flavor/aroma. For IPAs, I like to think of hop additions between these time frames as a "sacrifice". You're sacrificing less IBUs (compared to an earlier addition) and less character (compared to a later addition). Thus, the potential is limited, but a balance of both is met. This does not mean that it offers more flavor.

There are plenty of great commercial IPAs with huge early additions, whirlpool, dryhop and nothing in the middle. Do some research if you don't believe it. My personal favorite is a 90 minute boil with hop additions at 60/Whirlpool/DH. I really believe you need that warm (not hot) whirlpool addition. Sometimes, I'll throw a 30 minute addition in there and use less hops at 60, if I want a smoother character. With this schedule, I get excellent hot breaks, hop bitterness without the harshness, and great flavor and aroma.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Different schedules certainly generate different hop flavors for sure, but truly I did the 60 minute addition + tons of dry hops, no other additions, and my results were very very mediocre.

The beauty of doing this at the homebrew level, makes experimenting to be very easy. Commercial breweries are constrained by the bottom line and on that scale the sort of beers I can make is pretty difficult for big breweries.

Frankly my beer is better than any commercial beer I have ever tasted!

So my current regime of late hop additions, and hop bursting is the conclusion I have arrived at after almost 100 all grain batches to date. Works for me, but of course YMMV and WTF etc. and so on...!

Incidentally I have made beers using the DFH continually hopped schedule but I start at 30 minutes - this makes for a pretty wonderful IPA.

Cheers!
Steve da sleeve

 

[Oldsock]

So my current regime of late hop additions, and hop bursting is the conclusion I have arrived at after almost 100 all grain batches to date. Works for me, but of course YMMV and WTF etc. and so on...!

Have you tried bittering+whirlpool (aka hop stand)+dry hop? I've found it to be the most effective way to get the three things I want in an IPA: bitterness, saturated hop flavor, and a big hop aroma.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Yes, I've tired this - works pretty well, but im getting better aroma flavor from tossing in hops right at the beginning of cooling the wort. It generally takes me around 45 minutes to reach pitching temp. I calculate the IBUs has a one minute boil.

Clearly big breweries can't do anything like this since

 

[stevedasleeve]

...the whirlpool and cooling takes much longer (sorry hit send by accident!)

 

[Oldsock]

Interesting, that’s what I did originally, but the aromas in the wort never seemed to survive fermentation. Now I add hops at flame-out and let the wort sit for ~30 minutes before I start chilling. If I’ve got whole hops I’ll put some in my hop back on the way to the plate chiller. If I could only choose one or the other though I’d go with the hop stand, the long exposure to the hot wort seems to create a more permanent/saturated hop character. I get all of the aroma I need from the dry hops (half in primary, half in the keg).

 

[meltroha]

Incidentally I have made beers using the DFH continually hopped schedule but I start at 30 minutes - this makes for a pretty wonderful IPA.

Cheers!
Steve da sleeve[/QUOTE]

I have an ipa in the primary that I used .5 oz at 90, and 4.5oz dfh style beginning at 20, then will dry hop with 2oz in the secondary next week, hope it's good! Well overshot efficiency assumptions and it's at like 9.3% right now, so may just taste like alcohol though, Cheers!

 

[ultravista]

Great thread - subscribing ...

 

[stevedasleeve]

Bit of an old thread...! This year I've switched to hopbusting for all my IPAs, 20,15,10,5 and 0 additions - 5-6 oz total. Columbus, Summit, Nugget, Northern brewer, Simcoe, Citra (sometimes) and Amarillo if I can get it. Tetnang Willamette and NB for lagery light ales. Chinook and Columbus for Stouts.

I've also settled on 3 Oz dry hopping for 7 days, 3 cold, and 1-1.5 Oz in the keg with whole cones. No dry hopping for stouts anymore - just whole cone Columbus in the keg.

 

[ultravista]

Bit of an old thread...! This year I've switched to hopbusting for all my IPAs, 20,15,10,5 and 0 additions - 5-6 oz total. Columbus, Summit, Nugget, Northern brewer, Simcoe, Citra (sometimes) and Amarillo if I can get it. Tetnang Willamette and NB for lagery light ales. Chinook and Columbus for Stouts.

I've also settled on 3 Oz dry hopping for 7 days, 3 cold, and 1-1.5 Oz in the keg with whole cones. No dry hopping for stouts anymore - just whole cone Columbus in the keg.

How is the bittering with the 20,15,10,5 additions?

 

[BadDeacon]

I am interested in this from the opposite reason. I made a smash to compare malts. I used ahs magic hop dust (approx 7% AA) at 60, 15, 5, and 1 (1 oz each addition).

I did 2 batches. 1 marris otter, 1 2-row. I hope by leaving out the mid boil addition the malt differences will shine though and yet satisfy my hopheads buddies.

Thoughts???

 

[stevedasleeve]

How is the bittering with the 20,15,10,5 additions?

My last calculated out to 67 IBUs on a 1.069 beer, tasted around 55 IBUs. Big big hop flavor and aroma, enough bittering to balance it as an IPA. Fits my hop enthusiastic taste to a tee...

Steve da sleeve

 

[dcp27]

I did 2 batches. 1 marris otter, 1 2-row. I hope by leaving out the mid boil addition the malt differences will shine though and yet satisfy my hopheads buddies.

Thoughts???

unless leaving them out reduced the bittering, then it won't have any aid in allowing the malt differences to shine. those middle additions are kind of a waste, basically just soft bittering adds

 

[stevedasleeve]

unless leaving them out reduced the bittering, then it won't have any aid in allowing the malt differences to shine. those middle additions are kind of a waste, basically just soft bittering adds

Rubbish. Have you tried this? IM not so HO every hop addition adds its own character. Try the same calculated IBUs from one 60 minute addition vs 60 + 30.

Steve da sleeve

 

[dcp27]

Rubbish. Have you tried this? IM not so HO every hop addition adds its own character. Try the same calculated IBUs from one 60 minute addition vs 60 + 30.

Steve da sleeve

yes, it adds very minor character. there's a reason a lot of breweries today are moving towards the hop bursted technique

 

[BadDeacon]

I'm not trying to make a final recipe, just learn the malt differences. I usually use 60, 30, and 5.

I figured by moving the mid and late additions up, it would allow the hops to move out of the buttering picture and keep the aroma.

 

[BadDeacon]

Bittering. Dang autocorrect!!!!