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sirsloop

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More big brother goverment for California.... i'm tellin ya... one step at a time!!! Pretty soon THEY will be controlling what temperature your beer is!! HAHAH!


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CALIFORNIA SCHEMIN'
Big Brother to control thermostats in homes?
Proposed mandate would grant utility companies unlimited remote access to regulate temperatures

Posted: January 11, 2008
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Chelsea Schilling
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com


Add thermostats to the list of private property the government would like to regulate as the state of California looks to require that residents install remotely monitored temperature controls in their homes next year.

The government is seeking to limit rolling blackouts and free up electric and natural gas resources by mandating that every new heating and cooling system include a "non-removable" FM receiver. The thermostat is also capable of controlling other appliances in the house, such as electric water heaters, refrigerators, pool pumps, computers and lights in response to signals from utility companies. If contractors and residents refuse to comply with the mandate, their building permits will be denied.

The proposal, set to be considered by the commission Jan. 30, requires each thermostat to be equipped with a radio communication device to send "price signals" and automatically adjust temperature up or down 4 degrees for cooling and heating, as California's public and private utility organizations deem necessary.

Claudia Chandler, assistant executive director for the California Energy Commission, told WND the new systems would be highly beneficial to residents.

"From the Energy Commission's perspective, all we're doing is ensuring that this new technology is included in new homes instead of the older programmable technology," she said.

The Programmable Communication Thermostat, or PCT, will allow power authorities to control home temperatures without granting consumers ability to override settings during "emergency events." Nowhere in the proposal does it clarify what type of situation would qualify as an "emergency," but Chandler offered her own explanation: "An emergency is when the utilities need to implement rolling blackouts and drop load in order to be able to meet their supplies because the integrity of the grid is being jeopardized."

She claims residents will be able to manually override controls in all cases, but the 2008 Building Efficiency Standards (Page 64), known as Title 24, specifically states: "The PCT shall not allow customer changes to thermostat settings during emergency events."

Michael Shames, executive director of California's Utility Consumers' Action Network, told WND he believes the idea of a chip consumers are unable to override is not feasible. While he considers the technology to be a positive development, he said denying consumers control over their own appliances is a highly problematic concept.

"The implications of this language are far-reaching and Orwellian," he said. "For the government and utility company to say, 'We're going to control the devices in your house, and you have no choice in that matter,' that's where the line is drawn. That sentence must be removed."

Additionally, no provisional exceptions for people with health conditions worsened by excessive temperatures are mentioned in the current proposal; however, the Energy Commission spokeswoman said existing supply problems are more worrisome to Californians with health issues than the projected solution.

"I actually was more concerned in the 2001 electricity crisis that folks on critical medical devices like respirators, kidney dialysis machines and things like that were going through rolling blackouts," Chandler said. "That's a very challenging thing to face. Moving somebody's temperature up by a few degrees really seems mild by comparison."

Jim Gunshinan, managing editor of Home Energy, based in Berkley, Calif., told WND the changes would also provide consumers with an option to control thermostats via the Internet.

"That means someone can turn on the air conditioning before they leave work for home and have the house comfortable when they walk in the door. Or if they forgot before leaving home for a ski trip, they can remotely lower the thermostat at home and save money."

Gunshinan claims the new system is needed because it will be more beneficial to the environment than building new energy facilities for the state.

"Since utilities have old, inefficient and dirty power plants on reserve to use during peak demand hours, dropping demand will mean less use of these dirty power plants and less pollution."

Some critics say California authorities will be incapable of enforcing compliance if homeowners and renters bootleg heating and cooling systems from other states, block radio reception with inexpensive FM transmitters or simply install window air conditioning units and space heaters, a bypass method that could use more energy than traditional units.

Concerned California residents expressed outrage with the proposal in several online postings:

"I hate this state. Why don't we just fly a communist flag while we are at it? We are planning a move out of state. I'm done."

"This is insane. Please, everyone reading this, take action. Write your representatives, call the RINO governor, call your local radio programs and, lastly, write letters to the editors of your local papers. Dear God, just when I thought California couldn't get much worse!"

Other opponents of the state proposal expressed concern that its mandatory nature is a sign of increasing "Big Brother" government control.

The California Energy Commission invites public comment until the proposed adoption date, Jan. 30. Written responses must indicate "Docket No. 07-BTSD-1." Members of the California Energy Commission are appointed by the governor. Concerned individuals can also contact California state legislators.
 

Jesse17

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That's why I got the hell out of California!

I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state.

The problem, is every other state thinks that California sets the presidence for them, and they'll be following suit before long.

Thank God I have a generator, wood stove, and shot gun!
 

Schlenkerla

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That's so over the top.

Some people think they know better than everyone else and that they should decide for them since they are uncapable of making the right decision.

They are so full of themselves. Its utterly ridicuous.

I don't need to say who these people are, they are the ones who preach change. This is the kind of change you can expect going forward. :mad:
 

DRAGGER

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I think its time to buy a big ring magnet to counter act the rotation of my power meter...... You think that is bad in Santa Barbara county THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has to have a permit to run a generator for critical mission like launching satellites into space to support the warfighter.....

DRAGGER.....
 

RICLARK

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Do dissrespect to anyone out there but If that was the Last state in the Usa I would just have to die because If I ever go back someone will have to kill me and drag me back.Driving truck out there every week Was bad enough let alone living in "Commie-Fornia"
 
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Jesse17 said:
That's why I got the hell out of California!

I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state. I hate that state.

The problem, is every other state thinks that California sets the presidence for them, and they'll be following suit before long.

Thank God I have a generator, wood stove, and shot gun!
And here I left MT (just up the road from you - Sidney) to move to CA. It was for a job. I'd move back someday, but SWMBO will never live where it snows.
 

Jesse17

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BrewBrain said:
And here I left MT (just up the road from you - Sidney) to move to CA. It was for a job. I'd move back someday, but SWMBO will never live where it snows.
Hey, I have an aunt in Santa Cruz. They use to own Ferrels Donuts. It was pretty popular then, I don't know if you've heard of it.

Don't worry about the snow. If global warming is real (I doubt it) it won't snow here any more. It hardly does now, nothing like Truckee gets!
 

Brew Runner

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Jesse17 said:
Thank God I have a generator, wood stove, and shot gun!
The governing bodies here are working on taking those things away as well. :mad:

There is already a discount program in place where SoCal Edison can shut off your A/C during "high demand" hours in the summer. Great, I get to cook to death so some a-hole can cool off in L.A. :mad: My power bill this month was already 400% what it normally is! I don't have electric heat, either!
 

Kevin Dean

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Schlenkerla said:
I don't need to say who these people are, they are the ones who preach change.
It might be a bit hasty to lump that at the feet of those who want change - I want quite a bit of change but I'm not part of the group you're thinking of. The people advocating keeping things the same aren't much better than those advocating that kind of change.

Our Constitution is being ignored and eroded with just about every law passed in this country (some argue since the Civil War) so I very much advocate change - BACK to respecting the Constitution. :mug:
 

TheJadedDog

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You know, I consider myself liberal, the people of California make me look like a radical conservative. Honestly, I don't even think they would try something like this in North Korea.
 

skinfiddler

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Kevin Dean said:
It might be a bit hasty to lump that at the feet of those who want change - I want quite a bit of change but I'm not part of the group you're thinking of. The people advocating keeping things the same aren't much better than those advocating that kind of change.

Our Constitution is being ignored and eroded with just about every law passed in this country (some argue since the Civil War) so I very much advocate change - BACK to respecting the Constitution. :mug:


Support those candidates who will fight for Enumerated Powers.

JW
 

Schlenkerla

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Kevin Dean said:
It might be a bit hasty to lump that at the feet of those who want change - I want quite a bit of change but I'm not part of the group you're thinking of. The people advocating keeping things the same aren't much better than those advocating that kind of change.

Our Constitution is being ignored and eroded with just about every law passed in this country (some argue since the Civil War) so I very much advocate change - BACK to respecting the Constitution. :mug:
Kevin Dean - I tend to agree with you about not lumping them all together. Its the select few within that group that feel this way. Its seems like they are the most vocal.

I can see how some of them may think its a good idea, as it effects the little people who need it and not me.

I live in a neighborhood that was trying to be annexed and large parts of the nearby farm land have been siezed by eminant domain for developers. The township had to install sewers through the unincorporated areas to get to the segmented housing developments. It an attempt to recoupe expenses they were trying to force non-residents to tap into the sewer line. My home is on 2 acres and the tapping fee is $1400 per acre. My septic system is 4 years old and 100% servicable above ground. I'd never ever need a sewer nor would I pay $2800 to tap in to the thing.

I went to a township meeting (for the sewer) where they were discussing new land developements, and all of the houses were on 1/4 acre lots. When people started bitching about the per acre tap fee, They stated "Houses on large lots are inefficient use of land." (That really set me off) Some people have houses on 10 acres that are only 60' from the street. So they should pay $14,000 and the guy with the 1/4 acre lot down the street pays $350. My neighbor behind me is on 18 so it would cost him $25,200

Its only inefficent from a taxation point of view. They'd levi this through taxes.

The similarity here is they are trying to push something through under the guise that its beneficial for the community when its a select few that will reap the benefit. I can imagine the contract of the people who will be selling the wireless electronics to the utility company. When its mandated the price will be 5x more than normal and it will be passed on to the customer. :mad:
 

Sea

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Brew Runner said:
The governing bodies here are working on taking those things away as well. :mad:

There is already a discount program in place where SoCal Edison can shut off your A/C during "high demand" hours in the summer. Great, I get to cook to death so some a-hole can cool off in L.A. :mad: My power bill this month was already 400% what it normally is! I don't have electric heat, either!

I think this is a great idea, as it is TOTALLY VOLUNTARY, and can save an enormous amount of energy, which consumers are currently charged for. First off, in this program, they simply interupt the compressor for BRIEF periods of time so they can stage the millions of them out there, and greatly reduce the peak load in the mid afternoon (summer), and early morning (winter). They do not have control over your thermostat, or have any way to even tell the temp in your house.

The way that Power Supply works is that your provider has to purchase, or reserve production capacity for the peak load at all times. In other words, they pay for way more power than is used most of the year. That cost is, of course, borne by the consumer, us. If you can reduce your power consumption for those few bad months, you can save tremendously year round.

As for the original post, that's B**sh*t, and it will never happen,......though,....maybe in Cali.
 

Kevin Dean

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Blender said:
Yeah, you all have it right. We are all communists in California.
The problem with democracy is that a 51% majority can oppress a 49% minority. The fact that California continues to elect representitives who feel the government can (and should) do things like indicates there's at least a "signifigant" number of people in California who DON'T care about individual liberty and the Constitution.

That said, nobody said Communist - communism is an economic model not a political one. The flag show was a parody of the USSR flag which was a socialist dictatorship, not a communist democracy or republic.

Sea said:
The way that Power Supply works is that your provider has to purchase, or reserve production capacity for the peak load at all times. In other words, they pay for way more power than is used most of the year. That cost is, of course, borne by the consumer, us. If you can reduce your power consumption for those few bad months, you can save tremendously year round.
I disagree that this is a "natural" part of the system. Utilities are HEAVILY regulated by the government (and California is one of the heaviest regulating governments in the world). The reason consumers bear the weight of this is that they have NO CHOICE. Homeowners don't own their utility cables so they're stuck buying power off whichever utility company has the monopoly in their area. If it were truly done via the free market, custoemrs would LEAVE THAT COMPANY if they couldn't produce enough electricity to meet demands. If they actually COULDN'T meet demand, there would be incentive to research and develop technology that allowed them to. Since you can't leave a defective power company you're stuck accepting their terms.
 

david_42

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I was on a voluntary shutoff program in Las Vegas for years. Had cutouts on both of the heat pumps and received a kickback for every day ANYONE in the program had their units activated. Maximum shutoff per day? 15 minutes per pump.

Call it big brother or call it really cheap and effective load-leveling.
 

Zymurgrafi

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California! Über alles!

California! Ü.....ber alles!

Über alles! California!

Über alles! Cali......fornia!




Thanks Jerry and Ronnie!
 

Sea

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Kevin Dean said:
I disagree that this is a "natural" part of the system. Utilities are HEAVILY regulated by the government (and California is one of the heaviest regulating governments in the world). The reason consumers bear the weight of this is that they have NO CHOICE. Homeowners don't own their utility cables so they're stuck buying power off whichever utility company has the monopoly in their area. If it were truly done via the free market, custoemrs would LEAVE THAT COMPANY if they couldn't produce enough electricity to meet demands. If they actually COULDN'T meet demand, there would be incentive to research and develop technology that allowed them to. Since you can't leave a defective power company you're stuck accepting their terms.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but the program I am refering to is a result, or at least an important step in the R & D you are talking about. Advanced Load Managment is an essential part of the future of reliable power in this world IMHO. Large private and public consumers are already doing this widley within their own systems with great results and huge savings.

If it's a voluntary program, and you don't even notice, and it reduces the end cost to the consumer, I think it's a great program.

That being said, as for the op's story, the Gov. can control the actual temperature in my home when they break down the door, and IF they live coming through it!
 

david_42

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I am quite aware of the difference between voluntary & mandated. Most of what people think of voluntary compliance is merely an effort to avoid punishment for violating our social compact.

Imaging what driving would be like if brake lights were voluntarily activated.
 
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